phillwhitewasmad Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) Just been browsing a few topics on 2016 teams and everybody seems to be picking 7 man teams. Surely with the constant lack of riders and use of the dreaded guest and Mr R/R is it a good time to go to six man teams which gives everyone 5 rides during a meeting and increases rider availability . Or are we going to plump for more of the same Edited September 18, 2015 by phillwhitewasmad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 It's a good idea. So it will never happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 There's not a lack of riders there's too many racenights. Each team has had a full line up of seven since the start of the season and many have made more than one change across the year, that means there are plenty of riders to go about. Drop the points limit to somewhere between 34-36 for the top five and have a British rider only draft for reserves. Job done. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Like the British bit but surely with the amount of doubling up and guests and rr there's a shortage even before Injuries take hold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) There's not a lack of riders there's too many racenights. Each team has had a full line up of seven since the start of the season and many have made more than one change across the year, that means there are plenty of riders to go about. Drop the points limit to somewhere between 34-36 for the top five and have a British rider only draft for reserves. Job done. Each team has not had a line up of 7 riders as there is a lot of R/R and most of the team are guests from other teams. If you drop the points limit to 34 you will be watching National League racing, and instead of losing one or two of your favourite riders each year most of the top 4 will have to go. Edited September 18, 2015 by oldtimer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) There's not a lack of riders there's too many racenights. Each team has had a full line up of seven since the start of the season and many have made more than one change across the year, that means there are plenty of riders to go about. Drop the points limit to somewhere between 34-36 for the top five and have a British rider only draft for reserves. Job done. By the sounds of things the draft idea for PL reserves from the NL seems very much on the agenda from some promotions, but is being resisted by others. Surely this is what shouldve happened from the out set of the draft idea, young riders going from NL to EL is to big a step. Edited September 18, 2015 by screm 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Can't wait for someone to get Zach Wajtknecht in the draft, him subsequently averaging 8 by mid-season and then the rules being changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Like the British bit but surely with the amount of doubling up and guests and rr there's a shortage even before Injuries take hold Each team has not had a line up of 7 riders as there is a lot of R/R and most of the team are guests from other teams. If you drop the points limit to 34 you will be watching National League racing, and instead of losing one or two of your favourite riders each year most of the top 4 will have to go. R/R is part and parcel of the sport. Facilities are being used too often in the EL and PL for riders who are riding in the other league. One solution is to make doubling up solely for Brits, another is one race night in the EL and no PL fixtures are allowed to be run on that night. There is not a shortage of riders. The suggestion to drop the points limit to between 34-36 is for the top 5 only, the reserves are drafted as in the EL. From 42.5 to 35 you are losing 7.5 points, about the points two reserves take up at the start of a season but the beauty is no more Konopkas, Maassens, Dilgers or Daveys taking up spots which could be given to British talent. Can't wait for someone to get Zach Wajtknecht in the draft, him subsequently averaging 8 by mid-season and then the rules being changed. If the draft riders aren't protected by a change of race format like there was in the EL there's no way he'd attain an 8+ average in his first PL year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCookie Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 R/R is part and parcel of the sport. Facilities are being used too often in the EL and PL for riders who are riding in the other league. One solution is to make doubling up solely for Brits, another is one race night in the EL and no PL fixtures are allowed to be run on that night. There is not a shortage of riders. The suggestion to drop the points limit to between 34-36 is for the top 5 only, the reserves are drafted as in the EL. From 42.5 to 35 you are losing 7.5 points, about the points two reserves take up at the start of a season but the beauty is no more Konopkas, Maassens, Dilgers or Daveys taking up spots which could be given to British talent. If the draft riders aren't protected by a change of race format like there was in the EL there's no way he'd attain an 8+ average in his first PL year. Can't see any reason why not? Even if not, there has to be some sort of system to keep them at reserve surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Agree RR is part of the sport but it's not a good side to it surely something has to be done to reduce it not a great believer in it. Reduced team numbers altered format has to be a start let's face we all believe the sport needs change so why not be radical. For me I would like 6 man teams non of your changes because the reserve is going well and somebody else isn't so he has 7 rides. Track reserves for an injured rider only thing I would say if a heat leader gets injured in his first heat two of his rides taken by othe heat leaders one by reserve and one by the track reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Can't see any reason why not? Even if not, there has to be some sort of system to keep them at reserve surely? Keep them at reserve by all means but there doesn't need to be a change to the heat format. The EL has done that and riders averages are all around 6 now because riders only race people at the same level as they already are. Agree RR is part of the sport but it's not a good side to it surely something has to be done to reduce it not a great believer in it. Reduced team numbers altered format has to be a start let's face we all believe the sport needs change so why not be radical. For me I would like 6 man teams non of your changes because the reserve is going well and somebody else isn't so he has 7 rides. Track reserves for an injured rider only thing I would say if a heat leader gets injured in his first heat two of his rides taken by othe heat leaders one by reserve and one by the track reserve. A track reserve would never work. For one what if there is a rider missing on both teams? Only very bad, and I'm talking not good enough for NL, riders would entertain being a track reserve because there's no guarantee of even getting a ride and there's no way that will earn them the money to live/maintain their kit. There's no need to downsize teams and there's plenty of riders to go around to make up seven man teams. R/R isn't great but sometimes it's unavoidable. What is avoidable is a team using a guest for a foreign rider who is unavailable as he's riding for his other British team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsoil Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 If it helps in the short term then I'm fine with six man teams, but I would rather see a concerted attempt at attracting more young riders into the sport and phasing out the doubling up situation as a) any time a doubling up rider is injured it affects two teams and how many guests are employed due to fixture clashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 If it helps in the short term then I'm fine with six man teams, but I would rather see a concerted attempt at attracting more young riders into the sport and phasing out the doubling up situation as a) any time a doubling up rider is injured it affects two teams and how many guests are employed due to fixture clashes. Guests have got out of hand, and made the sport look poor, but as has already been posted there is no shortage of riders, so no need to go to six man teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Guests are a necessary evil that Speedway supporters have to live with. Choosing R/R is an option but not always the best one. I cannot foresee British Speedway ever having squads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Right could somebody please explain why they think there are enough riders when most teams are using double ups rr or guest please don't use the racing same night argument as we know race night can't always change due to teams racing in rented accommodation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Right could somebody please explain why they think there are enough riders when most teams are using double ups rr or guest please don't use the racing same night argument as we know race night can't always change due to teams racing in rented accommodation Every team started the season with seven riders. Due to injuries, poor form etc most have made one or two changes. That means quite simply that there are more than enough speedway riders today who could fill each seven man Premier League team. The standard of reserves would be slightly weaker to begin with perhaps but it would keep the poor foreign riders out of our reserve berths which is a good thing for the development of our own talent. The racenight argument is valid, our Elite League teams all race on a Monday when Sky are there, there's nothing apart from weak excuses from stopping them going to a Monday racenight each week. If the PL then runs meetings Tuesday-Sunday (only dropping one racenight nobody uses at present anyway) then there would be a way for British riders to DU and not miss any fixtures for either of their clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted September 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 The start of the season is never an issue really it's 6 weeks in when injuries take there toll that becomes the issue. No riders sat waiting to fill the gaps and most that are brought in are already riding for different teams and in different countries and not available to fulfil all of the fixtures for the said team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 The start of the season is never an issue really it's 6 weeks in when injuries take there toll that becomes the issue. No riders sat waiting to fill the gaps and most that are brought in are already riding for different teams and in different countries and not available to fulfil all of the fixtures for the said team. Throughout the season though, teams always have a declared 1-7, granted some have long term injuries to riders but the has not yet been a team that has said "there are no more speedway riders left we can only have a team of six now." Therefore there is not a shortage of riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillwhitewasmad Posted September 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 And that's the point injured rider out long term constant guests rr and no rider to fill that space hence lack of riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 I know this is a Premier thread but count up the number of British riders (exc Reserves) who now ride in the Elite then Take out the doublers and the number is pitiful so something needs doing. We did the Reserve Brit thing in 2006 and as soon as Steve Boxall got to a 7 average Rye were told to move him into the team. The Premier is a stronger league these days so this shouldn't happen - unless the race format is changed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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