2016 Gp Riders

[lucifer sam]

The other way to look at it is that AJ finished below a guy who missed a quarter of the GP season.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited November 1, 2015 by lucifer sam

[customhouseregular]

My point is that SCB maintains AJ is no longer in the Word Top 15 when he clearly is. Until he competes in a 12-round series with all the riders he asserts are better than him, and they all beat him, then that can't be contested. If Hampel had completed the series or Kildermand been in from the start AJ would still be no.10.

[waiheke1]

Hampel, Emil, Vaculik and Greg Laguta are all better riders. As is Pepe Protasawicz, Zmarzlik, Lindback and both Pawlickis. That's got him down to 20th before you start including the likes of Larsen, Madsen, Artem Laguta and Dudek.

 

All IMO better riders.

as you know, i do rankings based on performance across all major comps.

Throughout the season, aJ has hovered just outside the top 20, I've yet to update final rankings based on October performances, but suspect he may scrape into the top 20. But he will certainly end up below Zmarzlik, Pawlicki, Vaculik Ward, Emil, Hampel, Koloziej and quite likely Pepe, G Laguta and Prem Pawlicki (and Dudek who I excluded from my last rankings due to having ridden under 10 meetings, which may have changed in October).

He certainly wasn't in the top 15 riders in the world in 2015.

He's not a horrible pick as wild card, but equally there were riders who on merit were more deserving of a wildcard.

Hampel would certainly have finished above AJ had he not been injured. The others did not either make the GP's or enter the qualifiers so can not be compared to AJ in 2015. He was World no. 2 only 4 years ago. It may be that over a 12 round series all the riders you name would finish higher than AJ, but the fact remains that AJ is currently World no. 10.

AJ is world number 10 yes. But that doesn't mean he is the 10th best rider in the world, and y more than Harris/KK/Batch's end of season fionish would prove they are of the best 15 riders in the world

[customhouseregular]

How many World Champions were actually the World's best rider over a full season?. Muller and Sczakiel certainly weren't but they were still called World no.1.

 

I do accept your point though.

[waiheke1]

How many World Champions were actually the World's best rider over a full season?. Muller and Sczakiel certainly weren't but they were still called World no.1.

 

I do accept your point though.

Tai this year, Greg last year were the bext pover a season. In 2013 Hampel was arguably the best rider (statistically) across all comps.

Going back to pre GP for some examples: : I would say Penhall in 81/82, Nielsen in 86,87,89 were

Lee in 80 porbably not (Jessup was), Muller in 83 not, arguably Eric wasn't in 84,85 or 88 (statistically ass probably Hans every time).

Mauger probably wasn't in 77 or 79, but was in 73.

My point is that SCB maintains AJ is no longer in the Word Top 15 when he clearly is. Until he competes in a 12-round series with all the riders he asserts are better than him, and they all beat him, then that can't be contested. If Hampel had completed the series or Kildermand been in from the start AJ would still be no.10.

 

If Usain Bolt missed the World Champs through injury, would that mean he wasn't one of the top 10 sprinters in the world? Clearly not.

World championship placings are a guide, not neccesarily an infallible indication of where a person truly ranks. SCB isn't disputing that AJ finished 10th in the world, what he is disputing is whether that is a true inidcation of where he ranks vs other riders, and at the current time results would support that there are at least 15 riders better than AJ in world speedway.

[customhouseregular]

Problem is, as not every rider competes in all the same leagues or the same competitions, comparing averages to find the top 15 is nigh on impossible.

 

Foe example Tai does not do EL and Emil does not do GP, so how do we compare the two?.

[waiheke1]

Problem is, as not every rider competes in all the same leagues or the same competitions, comparing averages to find the top 15 is nigh on impossible.

 

Foe example Tai does not do EL and Emil does not do GP, so how do we compare the two?.

I statistically compare rankings across all major competitions, with each competition weighted based on the calibre of riders in it (weighting statistically determined based on the average across competitons of the riders competing in it).

 

Of course, there are different ways of doing this, and my rankings differ to say the Dolgin rankings, which are focused on performances over the lat two years (mine focus on current year only), and mine attach additional significance to events such as SGP, SWC and Euros, whereas Dolgin''s attach equal significance to all meetings

 

Dolgin's rankings can be found here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18wvOs1SUYAz9O50h3xcKFBNzceM7HtRnAhwaLMKHFD0/edit?hl=ru#gid=0, mine can be found here

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=79976

[Trees]

never here voices of dissent when he leads GB at kings lynn...this pathetic woffy bashing is crazy. this country is in a bad enough state (as most point out on this forum), so why knockthe most valuble commodity ENGLISH speedway has??

If only English Speedway could now gain from his presence racing here eh ....... instead he says he's given British racing no thought!!!!!

[ColinMills]

I think fans think riders actually care about the paying public...Tai (as an indidual) like you or me, does whats best for him and his family..his schedule, clearly benefits missing the elite league. I very much doubt this was an easy decision..

Edited November 1, 2015 by ColinMills

[PHILIPRISING]

And he did raise over £100,000 for an English hospital

[GASBLOKE]

Emil try his luck in qualifying for 2017! Don't know where you have been for the last year, Emil is NOT interested in competing in the SGP!!

Sorry bud, that's what I meant, not enough money in GP's !! or too much money in Polish League racing and the Euro's. I know they are at work and its their job, but wouldn you sooner be world champ or the richest bloke in the pits.

Just found time to watch the Aussie GP, (been on a Med Cruise).

I hope all you Bomber knockers are happy now, even poor Chris mentioned you all in his interview following that ridiculous exclusion. He has the toughest qualification for 2016 and has come through it, a lot of so called better riders have not.

Doyley has been a revelation, hope he is ok and ready to give it another go, wasn't that long ago he was at reserve for the Sky Sports Pirates.

[Humphrey Appleby]

wouldn you sooner be world champ or the richest bloke in the pits.

 

It should be synonymous.

[customhouseregular]

I statistically compare rankings across all major competitions, with each competition weighted based on the calibre of riders in it (weighting statistically determined based on the average across competitons of the riders competing in it).

 

Of course, there are different ways of doing this, and my rankings differ to say the Dolgin rankings, which are focused on performances over the lat two years (mine focus on current year only), and mine attach additional significance to events such as SGP, SWC and Euros, whereas Dolgin''s attach equal significance to all meetings

 

Dolgin's rankings can be found here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18wvOs1SUYAz9O50h3xcKFBNzceM7HtRnAhwaLMKHFD0/edit?hl=ru#gid=0, mine can be found here

http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=79976

Many thanks.

[SCB]

My point is that SCB maintains AJ is no longer in the Word Top 15 when he clearly is. Until he competes in a 12-round series with all the riders he asserts are better than him, and they all beat him, then that can't be contested. If Hampel had completed the series or Kildermand been in from the start AJ would still be no.10.

You're arguing apples with pears now. I don't doubt he is World #10 but using your theory, next year the GP series would just have the same riders in it as ended this year as they're the top 15 riders in the World using GP rankings. Some riders who didn't qualify (for whatever reason) are still better riders, AJ didn't qualify either don't forget! He's been gifted a place for 2016.

Edited November 2, 2015 by SCB

[RPNY]

Such a shame the Russian contingent don't want to be in the GPs. Shame Vaculik isnt. He's shown he wants to be in the GPs. Deserves an opportunity over Lindback IMO.

[SPEEDY69]

Disappointed with the wildcards but have almost lost interest in GPs these days - there's too many of them and they're too predictable.

 

AJ has been favoured so many times now - he'll never be world champ, (unless they bring back rolling starts!), and has had numerous chances.

Lindback failed to get through qualifiers

Kildemand failed to get through qualifiers

Hampel fair enough but he's dull to watch

 

Drop the seeding, except for serious injuries and promote more from the qualifying event is much fairer in my view. But as we all know, the series is there to make money and commercial decisions are inevitable.

[customhouseregular]

One of our esteemed forum members posts rankings showing the World top 20 at the end of the year. Why not seed the World Champion plus the next 15 from the list to make up the 16 for the next year's series. No wildcards, no GP Challenge where one bad ride can knock a rider out of contention.

 

World ranking 17-20 are series reserves so no no-hoper Finn or Latvian trailing in half a lap behind in a re-run heat,

 

A common complaint on these threads is that there are better riders out of the GP than some that are in...Jonsson/Vaculik for example. If the field is made up of the World top 16 by ranking there can be no complaints. (some hope).

[waiheke1]

 

​

Disappointed with the wildcards but have almost lost interest in GPs these days - there's too many of them and they're too predictable.

 

AJ has been favoured so many times now - he'll never be world champ, (unless they bring back rolling starts!), and has had numerous chances.

Lindback failed to get through qualifiers

Kildemand failed to get through qualifiers

Hampel fair enough but he's dull to watch

 

Drop the seeding, except for serious injuries and promote more from the qualifying event is much fairer in my view. But as we all know, the series is there to make money and commercial decisions are inevitable.

 

 

 

If you took that approach Kildermand would have got in anyway. Hampel you are saying you would give a pot due to injury.

So you would you rather see Lindgren and Milik in the series than Lindback and AJ? I think the latter two have soem chance of being top 8 next season, the former two almost none.

The fact is that seeedings result in a much stronger field, where merit is assessed over a full season not just a handful of qualifiers.

The only seed you can really query for next year is AJ, who was our performed over the season by the likes of Vaculik, but AJ is still a top 20 rider. The ter three seeds were all in the best 15 riders in the world last year when you take into account form across all competitions, and hence are worthy on merit of their slots.

One of our esteemed forum members posts rankings showing the World top 20 at the end of the year. Why not seed the World Champion plus the next 15 from the list to make up the 16 for the next year's series. No wildcards, no GP Challenge where one bad ride can knock a rider out of contention.

 

World ranking 17-20 are series reserves so no no-hoper Finn or Latvian trailing in half a lap behind in a re-run heat,

 

A common complaint on these threads is that there are better riders out of the GP than some that are in...Jonsson/Vaculik for example. If the field is made up of the World top 16 by ranking there can be no complaints. (some hope).

Fristly, I think it is important to have a local wildcard for each event. For smaller nations gives their riders an opportunity against the big boys (even the likes of Cook/Masters getting the oppoortunity is posisitve), in Poland we have got to to see talent like Zmarzlik showing what they can do.

Secondly, I do have some issue withbasing qualification for world champ strictly on some statistical measure based on other events - you could end up with the situation where a rider chose to skip his final club meetings to avoid risk of his ranking being lowered and missing a spot.

Thirdly, I think it is fair enough that the major speedway nations (Denmark,Sweden, GB and Poland) are guaranteed at least one rider in the series.

Fourth - the current system still allows the chance for a rider to qualify by a series of good meetings, even if that rider would never make it on a season long basis - the "romance" of the long shot qualifier, though I realise that is not always good for the series.

An official ranking system would be a good idea. However, I think it should be used only as a guide to wildcards. Or, say top 6 in GPS g through, 2 wildcards (to cover injury, young talent, nation coverage), and 7 spots to those highest in the rankings. (Or use the rankings to assemble the GP challenge field)

Edited November 3, 2015 by waihekeaces1

[SPEEDY69]

 

 

 

 

 

If you took that approach Kildermand would have got in anyway. Hampel you are saying you would give a pot due to injury.

So you would you rather see Lindgren and Milik in the series than Lindback and AJ? I think the latter two have soem chance of being top 8 next season, the former two almost none.

The fact is that seeedings result in a much stronger field, where merit is assessed over a full season not just a handful of qualifiers.

The only seed you can really query for next year is AJ, who was our performed over the season by the likes of Vaculik, but AJ is still a top 20 rider. The ter three seeds were all in the best 15 riders in the world last year when you take into account form across all competitions, and hence are worthy on merit of their slots.

Fristly, I think it is important to have a local wildcard for each event. For smaller nations gives their riders an opportunity against the big boys (even the likes of Cook/Masters getting the oppoortunity is posisitve), in Poland we have got to to see talent like Zmarzlik showing what they can do.

Secondly, I do have some issue withbasing qualification for world champ strictly on some statistical measure based on other events - you could end up with the situation where a rider chose to skip his final club meetings to avoid risk of his ranking being lowered and missing a spot.

Thirdly, I think it is fair enough that the major speedway nations (Denmark,Sweden, GB and Poland) are guaranteed at least one rider in the series.

Fourth - the current system still allows the chance for a rider to qualify by a series of good meetings, even if that rider would never make it on a season long basis - the "romance" of the long shot qualifier, though I realise that is not always good for the series.

An official ranking system would be a good idea. However, I think it should be used only as a guide to wildcards. Or, say top 6 in GPS g through, 2 wildcards (to cover injury, young talent, nation coverage), and 7 spots to those highest in the rankings. (Or use the rankings to assemble the GP challenge field)

 

 

It's not about who I'd like to see in there - that would have a vastly different look! It's about fairness. Lindgren and Milik finished ahead of Lindback in the official qualifying event and in my view that puts them ahead on a 'playing fair' basis.

[BWitcher]

Emil try his luck in qualifying for 2017! Don't know where you have been for the last year, Emil is NOT interested in competing in the SGP!!

 

Probably not technically true that..

 

What Emil is or isn't interested in is of little relevance. He does as he is told.