The White Knight Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Edinburgh should be champions, best team I cannot disagree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Yes there are, you can put off Christmas shopping til the end of October? What, only "seems" unfair? Reluctantly agree with that last bit tho, and it's probably the fact that you can race all season and finish top of the pile and dont get the Championship you've earned that many riders do decide to go elsewhere rather than stay and start again to finish the job you'd thought you already had? Why would you think that, the rules are quite clear at the start of the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Why would you think that, the rules are quite clear at the start of the season? Because it's human nature to think that, would you be happy proving you weren't a fluke before you got your Gold Medal? Over the course of the entire season Edinburgh have easily been the best side, their position proves that 1st, why should any club have to go out and prove themselves all over again just to satisfy the 11 losing clubs, and their supporters, that they were worthy winners? These play offs only serve to give five of those "losing teams" an undeserved second chance of glory they weren't good enough to take first time round, where is the justification in giving them that opportunity? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Because it's human nature to think that, would you be happy proving you weren't a fluke before you got your Gold Medal? Over the course of the entire season Edinburgh have easily been the best side, their position proves that 1st, why should any club have to go out and prove themselves all over again just to satisfy the 11 losing clubs, and their supporters, that they were worthy winners? These play offs only serve to give five of those "losing teams" an undeserved second chance of glory they weren't good enough to take first time round, where is the justification in giving them that opportunity? It's an old argument and it's becoming an outdated one . Many sports crown their champions after play offs and the way speedway club's finances are , play offs can be a financial godsend . Top of the league and worthy of that accolade maybe , but after Edinburgh's well published money worries , ask the Edinburgh promotion whether they welcome the play offs or not . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilly Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Because it's human nature to think that, would you be happy proving you weren't a fluke before you got your Gold Medal? Over the course of the entire season Edinburgh have easily been the best side, their position proves that 1st, why should any club have to go out and prove themselves all over again just to satisfy the 11 losing clubs, and their supporters, that they were worthy winners? These play offs only serve to give five of those "losing teams" an undeserved second chance of glory they weren't good enough to take first time round, where is the justification in giving them that opportunity? My point is that the rules are known before you start, whether you agree with them or not is another matter. Your whole point is the age old one of whoever finishes top should be champions. While the rule is in place you have no option other than to get on with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 It's an old argument and it's becoming an outdated one . Many sports crown their champions after play offs and the way speedway club's finances are , play offs can be a financial godsend . Top of the league and worthy of that accolade maybe , but after Edinburgh's well published money worries , ask the Edinburgh promotion whether they welcome the play offs or not . Your argument is a contradiction, if, as you suggest, Edinburgh are succesfully losing money by being Champions then why would they want to play anymore matches and continue the theme? If those play offs "were" actually providing enough revenue from increased gates etc to offset the the season's losses then where are those supporters during the said season and why dont they show up on a weekly basis to help, what is, a very successful club on the track? Financially, I would more like to find out what the crowd levels are for these matches in relation to the standard fare rather than how much the Edinburgh promotion rely on them, that's a more accurate gauge of a competitions worthiness? Personally, I can hardly see three matches in a bleak October doing anything for the previous 20 or so during the summer, if they cant attract them then?? My point is that the rules are known before you start, whether you agree with them or not is another matter. Your whole point is the age old one of whoever finishes top should be champions. While the rule is in place you have no option other than to get on with it. And what's wrong with that? Of course if the rule is there you just get on with it, in "my opinion" it shouldn't be, that's all I'm saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 Your argument is a contradiction, if, as you suggest, Edinburgh are succesfully losing money by being Champions then why would they want to play anymore matches and continue the theme? If those play offs "were" actually providing enough revenue from increased gates etc to offset the the season's losses then where are those supporters during the said season and why dont they show up on a weekly basis to help, what is, a very successful club on the track? Financially, I would more like to find out what the crowd levels are for these matches in relation to the standard fare rather than how much the Edinburgh promotion rely on them, that's a more accurate gauge of a competitions worthiness? Personally, I can hardly see three matches in a bleak October doing anything for the previous 20 or so during the summer, if they cant attract them then?? And what's wrong with that? Of course if the rule is there you just get on with it, in "my opinion" it shouldn't be, that's all I'm saying? How is my argument a contradiction ? People will turn out for the bigger meetings regardless what time of year it is . The play offs are fantastic and qualification has become the holy grail for every promotion . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 How is my argument a contradiction ? People will turn out for the bigger meetings regardless what time of year it is . The play offs are fantastic and qualification has become the holy grail for every promotion . But do they tho, where is the physical proof that this happens, your just speculating that this is the case as none of the relevant details with regards to actual attendances for play off matches v regular league fixtures are ever made available for scrutiny? You may enjoy your play offs for whatever reasons you choose that's your prerogative, I however object to them on the moral grounds that the league fixtures have decided who is Champions not some six match programme at the end of it, and thats mine? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coalman Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) Never usually agree with you but on this one I totally am with you Edited September 19, 2015 by coalman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted September 19, 2015 Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 But do they tho, where is the physical proof that this happens, your just speculating that this is the case as none of the relevant details with regards to actual attendances for play off matches v regular league fixtures are ever made available for scrutiny? You may enjoy your play offs for whatever reasons you choose that's your prerogative, I however object to them on the moral grounds that the league fixtures have decided who is Champions not some six match programme at the end of it, and thats mine? Give your heed a shake will you. Its not about Moral Support Society. All the teams know the rules before a wheel has turned, and the winner of the Play Offs final on aggregate is the winner. It's a sport decision FFS. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 Give your heed a shake will you. Its not about Moral Support Society. All the teams know the rules before a wheel has turned, and the winner of the Play Offs final on aggregate is the winner. It's a sport decision FFS. Fine, maybe the wrong choice of word there but as we're now bordering on abuse we'll call it a day!! Never usually agree with you but on this one I totally am with you Erm, if this was aimed at me coalman then, I Thank You, nice to know I have found common ground with you!! If it wasn't then I apologize and will promise to regain normal service as soon as!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted September 20, 2015 Report Share Posted September 20, 2015 My point is that the rules are known before you start, whether you agree with them or not is another matter. Your whole point is the age old one of whoever finishes top should be champions. While the rule is in place you have no option other than to get on with it. Very true!! But that doesn't make it a Good or a Fair Rule though does it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted September 21, 2015 Report Share Posted September 21, 2015 Glasgow. Like them or hate them thats the rules, hate TR but stuck with it ........think it might be dumped for next year though. (TR) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotchopper Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 But do they tho, where is the physical proof that this happens, your just speculating that this is the case as none of the relevant details with regards to actual attendances for play off matches v regular league fixtures are ever made available for scrutiny? You may enjoy your play offs for whatever reasons you choose that's your prerogative, I however object to them on the moral grounds that the league fixtures have decided who is Champions not some six match programme at the end of it, and thats mine? The attendance for the play off final against Somerset last year was the largest seen at armadale for a good number of years in my opinion. However I accept for the semi finals or group stages they didn't seem any better to me. I have no problems with play offs as everyone knows the rules at the start of the year and agree many other sports use the same system. The biggest annual event in the world the superbowl is basically a playoff final. Where I think it doesn't work in speedway is the way the teams are built up and the fact that teams can strengthen just before the play offs start. In other sports if a team has qualified for the play offs they can then rest riders in the final few matches or try out new systems, that doesn't work in speedway as your 1-7 is your 1-7, riders don't want to miss out on earnings and there is very limited scope to changing any systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lucan Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 The attendance for the play off final against Somerset last year was the largest seen at armadale for a good number of years in my opinion. However I accept for the semi finals or group stages they didn't seem any better to me. I have no problems with play offs as everyone knows the rules at the start of the year and agree many other sports use the same system. The biggest annual event in the world the superbowl is basically a playoff final. Where I think it doesn't work in speedway is the way the teams are built up and the fact that teams can strengthen just before the play offs start. In other sports if a team has qualified for the play offs they can then rest riders in the final few matches or try out new systems, that doesn't work in speedway as your 1-7 is your 1-7, riders don't want to miss out on earnings and there is very limited scope to changing any systems. Thank You my friend, at least that,s some relevant insight into the question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 It seems Smiling Sam is now the wild card for the Oz GP with Sedgy moving up to 1st reserve and Maxy Fricke in as 2nd reserve. Monarchs are not racing their Play-off semi final home match till 9th October - dunno when the away leg might be - so it looks like a struggle to get it all fitted in if Monarchs get through to the final. But we always expected it would be chaos. And this assumes it doesn't rain in October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 And this assumes Edinburgh reach the final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 As I said............... IF. (... if Monarchs get through to the final.) Couldn't even bring Maxy Fricke in as a guest!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Blobby Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 And this assumes Edinburgh reach the final. Of course we are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenway Bleachers Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 If we get there....... R/R for sam and Stevie w in for sedgy if the averages allow....he can make up for missing last years final.........simples!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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