Wolverhampton 2016

[fish keeper]

Wolves moved from a Friday to a Monday fans would soon get used to another race night if they had to and it helped save the sport .

[Wolfsbane]

Absolutely correct.

Cook is clearly acting out of self interest which is no surprise.

How on earth can any EL promoter think that Friday is a good idea given that several PL teams ride on that day plus how on earth is that a tempter for top class riders who have GP practice on that day also every 2 or 3 weeks?

Plain crazy.

Mondays and Wednesdays would be best as far as minimising clashes with PL although it seems clear that Thursday is one of the set days given that the Stars have changed there race night.

That said, how does that affect Sheffield and Ipswich?

I can't see either team altering their race nights.

Don't sign any double uppers that ride for them and if you want to double up don't sign for them. Sorted.

[E I Addio]

In this week's SS Jon Cook is supporting Thursday and Friday.

The argument in favour of avoiding clashes with the PL is very valid and would please many,including me but just how many extra fans would it attract? Undoubtedly, some but I don't see it as something that stops newcomers. They come for the first time, see the spectacle of four men on bikes racing, the presentation, the atmosphere, the facilities in the stadium, the cost and they either decide it's worth another visit or that it isn't for them. In any event the problem of doubling up riders can be solved by other means. Better fixture planning and squads are two ways apparently being tried this year. My opinion on bringing back the top riders is that the real problem is money. Monday and Wednesday racing will help for some but they still won't come if the money isn't right and the fact is that the sport in the UK can't afford them. Crowds were falling long before they left and will they even increase crowd numbers sufficient to cover their cost? Having seen the effect on crowds at Belle Vue when Crump and Zagar were and weren't riding, I doubt it. Monday and Wednesday also have the added problem of not being consecutive days, so potentially involving riders travelling from Poland to the UK to Sweden and back to the UK on consecutive days. That is not going to encourage them to come here.

Conversely, having Friday and to a lesser extent Thursday as the fixed days is much more attractive to parents to bring along children and only involves one trip for riders from abroad. It is also the time of week when many think about spending whatever they have available for sport and entertainment and so far more likely to bring in the new fans and bring back some of those who have drifted away. Saturday is even better but we know there are just too many problems for the EL to use that night on a regular basis.

Perhaps the most telling point is going to be that potentially 4 EL clubs, 50%, are likely to be in favour of Friday when it comes to the vote.

Of course he is but that's because Friday is the best night for the club to get the best crowd.It is no accident that 3 clubs have decided that Friday is the best night for them to race and that a fourth wanted to change to that night. It is a sound commercial decision.

The problem is that some clubs are restricted by the nights available from their landlords and in some cases, I'm thinking of Poole, by perhaps not wanting to change from a traditional race night which is still bringing in decent crowds.

Well done Aces 51 in injecting a bit of common sense, logic and balance into the discussion. Unfortunately it will go over the heads of most. Edited February 12, 2016 by E I Addio

[R87]

Well done Aces 51 in injecting a bit of common sense, logic and balance into the discussion. Unfortunately it will go over the heads of most.

Steady on. British Speedway doesn't do common sense........

 

But seriously there is an obvious need for proper planning of fixtures. I don't pay my money to watch guests and rr. Anything that helps to reduce this nonsense is a positive step.

[arnieg]

However most guests are as a result of injury and can't be avoided. If the EL run on Fridays there will be more guests unless the PL clubs who race on that day change their race night or (and this is highly speculative) enough riders return to the EL to significantly reduce doubling up.

[RobMcCaffery]

So, having screwed up their own league the EL now wants to strip several PL tracks of their race nights and wreck that league too?

 

Tracks moving 'up'. Why should anyone join a sinking ship? I'm sure the supporters of King's Lynn and Leicester will be delighted right now their teams did it given their inability to recruit number ones.

 

You can solve everything by moving to Thursdays and Fridays? The riders will queue up to return? Dream on.

[E I Addio]

So, having screwed up their own league the EL now wants to strip several PL tracks of their race nights and wreck that league too?

 

Tracks moving 'up'. Why should anyone join a sinking ship? I'm sure the supporters of King's Lynn and Leicester will be delighted right now their teams did it given their inability to recruit number ones.

 

You can solve everything by moving to Thursdays and Fridays? The riders will queue up to return? Dream on.

Nobody has said the EL wants to strip the PL of their race nights.

 

Nobody has said you can solve everything by moving to Thursday's and Friday's .

 

Nobody has said the riders will be queuing up to return.

 

So after a short burst of sense from Aces 51 the forum has returned to its usual drivel. It has been stated that we should hear more about the squad system and how it works next week. The squad system is not the be-all and end-all that solves all the problems but it is quite possibly an important factor in improving the situation. Surely it makes sense to see what information comes out next week before lurching into a tirade about the EL-v-PL issue, or making any other pre-judgments.

[stevebrum]

Don't sign any double uppers that ride for them and if you want to double up don't sign for them. Sorted.

Bug you could apply that logic to any of the PL days then!

[Shale Searcher]

Bug you could apply that logic to any of the PL days then!

What do squad riders do when left out of the team? By choice, or not?

[A ORLOV]

What do squad riders do when left out of the team? By choice, or not?

If they have got any sense anything but still pick up their squad retainer cheque.

[Shale Searcher]

If they have got any sense anything but still pick up their squad retainer cheque.

So a team will have to pay 8, 9, or maybe even 10 riders per meeting, well that's not gonna happen, is it!! Can only just afford to pay for 7 most of the time...!

[A ORLOV]

So a team will have to pay 8, 9, or maybe even 10 riders per meeting, well that's not gonna happen, is it!! Can only just afford to pay for 7 most of the time...!

I doubt if the riders will have mechanics on call, equipment in the uk and keep themselves available for a meeting for nothing.

[Red Flag]

Thursday is dogs and has been for years so couldn't imagine Ladbokes changing that

[orion]

So, having screwed up their own league the EL now wants to strip several PL tracks of their race nights and wreck that league too?

 

Tracks moving 'up'. Why should anyone join a sinking ship? I'm sure the supporters of King's Lynn and Leicester will be delighted right now their teams did it given their inability to recruit number ones.

 

You can solve everything by moving to Thursdays and Fridays? The riders will queue up to return? Dream on.

Join a sinking ship ? not sure you notice the Pl is hardly the place to be ...yet another who thinks that all the problems are at El level ....speedway is a sinking ship at all levels .

 

Saying that if they are going to make it Thursday and Friday then the idea is a complete waste of time .

[Shale Searcher]

I doubt if the riders will have mechanics on call, equipment in the uk and keep themselves available for a meeting for nothing.

So, where is the extra money going to come from to pay these riders retainer payments when they are not on duty for their team? And, would they be allowed to ride elsewhere on that evening (not for their other team) I mean as a guest or individual meeting booking? Or do they have to commit for the season not to ride on any of their teams fixture dates? I see cracks, huge cracks appearing in the squad system already!!

[A ORLOV]

So, where is the extra money going to come from to pay these riders retainer payments when they are not on duty for their team? And, would they be allowed to ride elsewhere on that evening (not for their other team) I mean as a guest or individual meeting booking? Or do they have to commit for the season not to ride on any of their teams fixture dates? I see cracks, huge cracks appearing in the squad system already!!

You have listed the reasons why a rider would want a retainer if signing as a squad member stops them riding for another team if offered a meeting or series of meetings. I suppose the odd rider may be prepared to sign up to those conditions without a payment.

I have no idea where the extra money would come from apart from the clubs expecting to get extra fans because of the standard of rider they include in the team, an example of this was that the number of fans went up when Darcy rode for Swindon.

Not sure how the squad riders abroad are retained if they do not get a ride and are offered a position or meeting with another club.

[orion]

In this week's SS Jon Cook is supporting Thursday and Friday.

 

The argument in favour of avoiding clashes with the PL is very valid and would please many,including me but just how many extra fans would it attract? Undoubtedly, some but I don't see it as something that stops newcomers. They come for the first time, see the spectacle of four men on bikes racing, the presentation, the atmosphere, the facilities in the stadium, the cost and they either decide it's worth another visit or that it isn't for them. In any event the problem of doubling up riders can be solved by other means. Better fixture planning and squads are two ways apparently being tried this year. My opinion on bringing back the top riders is that the real problem is money. Monday and Wednesday racing will help for some but they still won't come if the money isn't right and the fact is that the sport in the UK can't afford them. Crowds were falling long before they left and will they even increase crowd numbers sufficient to cover their cost? Having seen the effect on crowds at Belle Vue when Crump and Zagar were and weren't riding, I doubt it. Monday and Wednesday also have the added problem of not being consecutive days, so potentially involving riders travelling from Poland to the UK to Sweden and back to the UK on consecutive days. That is not going to encourage them to come here.

 

Conversely, having Friday and to a lesser extent Thursday as the fixed days is much more attractive to parents to bring along children and only involves one trip for riders from abroad. It is also the time of week when many think about spending whatever they have available for sport and entertainment and so far more likely to bring in the new fans and bring back some of those who have drifted away. Saturday is even better but we know there are just too many problems for the EL to use that night on a regular basis.

 

Perhaps the most telling point is going to be that potentially 4 EL clubs, 50%, are likely to be in favour of Friday when it comes to the vote.

Don't agree ...the thing that has always been true is that crowds have dropped as the standard has dropped and unless something is done in that respect it will carry on and speedway will die a slow death .

 

Thou it's quite clear that the best days are Thursday ,Fridays and weekends to get better crowds it's quite clear at El level that teams as they have in the last few years would have most of there team missing most of the time on these dates so it would just defeat the object of having a fixed race nights . As I said before Fans biggest hate is riders missing matches and having guests and rr so there is little point having El speedway on these dates .

 

Monday or Wednesday are the way to go ...teams can have full 1 -7 's it won't effect the double up riders so pl teams can have more chance of full 1 -7's and it may bring back a few good riders into the bargain ...of course some teams are going to have to ditch there normal race night but after a while they would soon get used to what night speedway is on ...looking it already you can see that the ugly head of self interest will stop this in it's tracks with the likes of John Cook only caring about keeping his own race night .

[stevebrum]

What do squad riders do when left out of the team? By choice, or not?

Same as they do in Poland and Sweden!

As CVS explained whilst it's expected that job shares will be to entice top riders for less matches he did say there is no reason why all other positions can't share too.

Certainly is a good idea when trying to avoid doubling up riders missing too many matches if you can another rider to cover matches that is a squad member.

It happens in Sweden and Poland that teams have a bigger squad than they have team places for. Sounds a sensible idea to me.

[Shale Searcher]

Same as they do in Poland and Sweden!

As CVS explained whilst it's expected that job shares will be to entice top riders for less matches he did say there is no reason why all other positions can't share too.

Certainly is a good idea when trying to avoid doubling up riders missing too many matches if you can another rider to cover matches that is a squad member.

It happens in Sweden and Poland that teams have a bigger squad than they have team places for. Sounds a sensible idea to me.

What about this retainer that's been mentioned for unused squad riders? Look what happened to using a number 8 when operating R/R, that was stopped to save having to pay a rider that didn't get a ride, now you're saying that clubs will be able to afford to pay 2 maybe 3 riders money when not being used? Where is this money coming from....?

[RobMcCaffery]

Join a sinking ship ? not sure you notice the Pl is hardly the place to be ...yet another who thinks that all the problems are at El level ....speedway is a sinking ship at all levels .

 

Saying that if they are going to make it Thursday and Friday then the idea is a complete waste of time .

I see, because the PL is far from healthy that makes the EL okay then?

 

It's all relative but British speedway needs to find a SUSTAINABLE level rather than live in a dream world where a few simple things need to be done to make it all perfect and have all the 'names; return.

 

This thread inhabits that dream world where tracks are begging to move into the EL. May I suggest you stick to Fantasy speedway leagues because you're doing nothing to help save the remains of the sport in Britain.

 

The crowds do not justify flying riders in from all around the world anymore. I wouldn't expect you to see the bigger picture but I'd have hoped the Wolves fans might have been a little more clued-up.

 

Just because you want things to be a certain way doesn't mean all you have to do is shout and demand for it to happen.

 

As ever, the situation is a damn sight more complex than your sad, simplistic approach. Look beyond the end of your nose for God's sake.

 

Yes the PL has problems but far less than the appalling mess that is the EL - living on past glories and thinking that something 'will come up'.

 

If your only defence of the situation is 'Well the other league has problems" then the EL really does have no future.