BWitcher Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 In all fairness to brum, i think what he means hes yet to prove himself as a good nimber one in the uk yet. But i still think he would be quality in the el in its current state. But we wont know until he ever returns i suppose. That's not the debate, I said he's better than any rider Wolves have got. The exception to that is if Lindgren can rediscover his old form of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) It isn't debateable. To have a debate, the other side of the argument has to put forward a coherent reason for why they believe their rider is better. You haven't come up with anything. We'll ignore Sweden then, where Larsen is much much better. Let's look at Poland.. ah there he is again! He averages almost as much (8.00) in the FIRST division as Lindgren (8.44) does in the SECOND division. Based on your flawed theory riders such as Emil, Vaculik, Nicki Pedersen, Hampel aren't better either as they haven't raced in the current Elite League formula. As per usual missing my point .The opinion is nothing to do with Europe as already explained. Yet you ignore that point conveniently. It would be interesting how the examples you used faired with the current format give how the likes of woffy, holder as example struggle with it. The ONLY acid test and proof would be them taking part in it and NOT use of averages as any kind of relevant proof. So a question, do you believe the likes of Hampel, Emil, Nicki, Vaculik would fair better in the CURRENT EL FORMAT that the likes of Woffy and Holder (and any of the top boys racing here) struggled and why?? As for Larsen, I'd have been delighted if he had signed for Wolves this year as he should be a great addition to any side. No doubt if he outscores his average you will be gloating you were right all along. You better not hope he struggles likes the majority of the EL heat leaders do, start squirming if that's the case. Edited January 10, 2016 by stevebrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Larsen would be a number one calibre rider. He's certainly better than any rider Wolves have got and one I had hoped we would make a move for this season. It's debatable if he is 'better' As per usual missing my point .The opinion is nothing to do with Europe as already explained. Yet you ignore that point conveniently. It would be interesting how the examples you used faired with the current format give how the likes of woffy, holder as example struggle with it. The ONLY acid test and proof would be them taking part in it and NOT use of averages as any kind of relevant proof. So a question, do you believe the likes of Hampel, Emil, Nicki, Vaculik would fair better in the CURRENT EL FORMAT that the likes of Woffy and Holder (and any of the top boys racing here) struggled and why?? As for Larsen, I'd have been delighted if he had signed for Wolves this year as he should be a great addition to any side. No doubt if he outscores his average you will be gloating you were right all along. You better not hope he struggles likes the majority of the EL heat leaders do, start squirming if that's the case. Once again you've completely forgotten the discussion. I simply stated Larsen is better than any rider Wolves have. I've also provided evidence to back that up. You claimed it was debateable if he is better.. but have provided absolutely no evidence to back that up, other than banging on about riders not even involved in the conversation... riders who you claim 'struggled' but still were better than any rider in the Wolves team next year.. so hardly backs up your argument does it. So to pursue your line of argument, he doesn't need to fare better than Holder and Woffinden have done in their last spells in the EL as just matching them is better than what Wolves have currently got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Once again you've completely forgotten the discussion. I simply stated Larsen is better than any rider Wolves have. I've also provided evidence to back that up. You claimed it was debateable if he is better.. but have provided absolutely no evidence to back that up, other than banging on about riders not even involved in the conversation... riders who you claim 'struggled' but still were better than any rider in the Wolves team next year.. so hardly backs up your argument does it. So to pursue your line of argument, he doesn't need to fare better than Holder and Woffinden have done in their last spells in the EL as just matching them is better than what Wolves have currently got. In your opinion as per which is debatable. It was YOU that brought other riders into a topic but as usual ignored. We'll ignore Sweden then, where Larsen is much much better. Let's look at Poland Based on your flawed theory riders such as Emil, Vaculik, Nicki Pedersen, Hampel aren't better either as they haven't raced in the current Elite League formula. Bringing in other riders and countries despite my discussion on EL matters only. Plus you ignored my question which proves you either don't read posts properly or ignore them because you don't have a valid reply. At least we know one of those will be true. Edited January 10, 2016 by stevebrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) In your opinion as per which is debatable. It was YOU that brought other riders into a topic but as usual ignored. Bringing in other riders and countries despite my discussion on EL matters only. Plus you ignored my question which proves you either don't read posts properly or ignore them because you don't have a valid reply. At least we know one of those will be true. Steve, why do you persist in making things up when you've embarrassed yourself again? Do find me the post where I have brought 'other' riders into it. I stated Larsen is better than anybody in the Wolves team. I then proved that fact, the only riders mentioned were Larsen and Lindgren and Kylmakorpi.. i.e. riders in the Wolves team. Unable to be a mature adult and accept that you've continued to peddle nonsense about riders such as Woffinden and Holder, who are irrelevant to the discussion. Larsen at this moment in time is better than Lindgren and Kylmakorpi and any other rider in the Wolves 1-7. Deal with it. That's not an opinion, it's a quantifiable fact. Edited January 10, 2016 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Based on your flawed theory riders such as Emil, Vaculik, Nicki Pedersen, Hampel aren't better either as they haven't raced in the current Elite League formula. Steve, why do you persist in making things up when you've embarrassed yourself again? Do find me the post where I have brought 'other' riders into it. I stated Larsen is better than anybody in the Wolves team. I then proved that fact, the only riders mentioned were Larsen and Lindgren and Kylmakorpi.. i.e. riders in the Wolves team. Unable to be a mature adult and accept that you've continued to peddle nonsense about riders such as Woffinden and Holder, who are irrelevant to the discussion. Larsen at this moment in time is better than Lindgren and Kylmakorpi and any other rider in the Wolves 1-7. Deal with it. That's not an opinion, it's a quantifiable fact. Why do you persist on ignoring stuff you have already posted and make yourself look even sillier ? I had already quoted the post YOU brought other riders into the discussion and even included it in the post you just replied to. Just to be clear it's the 1ST post I have yet again highlighted you made. I made the point that you were one of two things , at least I now know it's called selective reading. At least it explains a lot about the majority of your posts. It might be best to read mine AND your own posts before replying but far from it from me to point out out you're glaring weaknesses. Now back to Larsen for clarity. On starting average he is on a higher average than any of the Wolves line up. How he will cope with the new heat format is clearly debatable (given the experience of those before him as evidence). Hopefully that's the end of it. Meaning it won't be. Edited January 10, 2016 by stevebrum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Why do you persist on ignoring stuff you have already posted and make yourself look even sillier ? I had already quoted the post YOU brought other riders into the discussion and even included it in the post you just replied to. Just to be clear it's the 1ST post I have yet again highlighted you made. I made the point that you were one of two things , at least I now know it's called selective reading. At least it explains a lot about the majority of your posts. It might be best to read mine AND your own posts before replying but far from it from me to point out out you're glaring weaknesses. Now back to Larsen for clarity. On starting average he is on a higher average than any of the Wolves line up. How he will cope with the new heat format is clearly debatable (given the experience of those before him as evidence). Hopefully that's the end of it. Meaning it won't be. Nice try, but as my post says "Based on your theory"... A lesson in English might help you. Clearly you still don't understand do you? 'Starting average' has nothing to do with it. It is utterly irrelevant. Larsens was achieved in a different year in a different format so quite why you are even contemplating that is beyond me. I have demonstrated to you that in the league where Larsen, Lindgren and Kylmakorpi all rode last year and thus can easily can be compared, Larsen was miles better. It wasn't even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted January 10, 2016 Report Share Posted January 10, 2016 Nice try, but as my post says "Based on your theory"... A lesson in English might help you. Clearly you still don't understand do you? 'Starting average' has nothing to do with it. It is utterly irrelevant. Larsens was achieved in a different year in a different format so quite why you are even contemplating that is beyond me. I have demonstrated to you that in the league where Larsen, Lindgren and Kylmakorpi all rode last year and thus can easily can be compared, Larsen was miles better. It wasn't even close. That's it, keep comparing averages abroad. Completely irrelevant to the EL/race format. Time to move on unless of course you want to ensure that you have the last word that you believe is the only correct one. Move along . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 That's it, keep comparing averages abroad. Completely irrelevant to the EL/race format. Time to move on unless of course you want to ensure that you have the last word that you believe is the only correct one. Move along . I didn't say anything about the EL in my statement, that is your creation. I stated Kenni Larsen is better than any rider Wolves have. And proved it. If you can come up with any factual information to dispute that, go ahead and do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TesarRacing Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Larsen should have been Wolves priority target this off season. Interesting to see PK is willing to ride for Peterborough.. so much for him not being keen to race over here this season.. Larsen should've been a priority for Coventry too, I get the feeling he isn't keen on a full British season. How do you know he wasn't? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Bwitcher we have had some good debates over the years and ive rarely had a good debate with stevebrum BUT he has a good point. Lots of riders outscore others abroad, look at Mjj. Averaged more than many world class riders in sweden and poland yet hasnt in the uk. Have no doubt larsen would be quality in the el and probably would outscore the fading lindgren and JK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Bwitcher we have had some good debates over the years and ive rarely had a good debate with stevebrum BUT he has a good point. Lots of riders outscore others abroad, look at Mjj. Averaged more than many world class riders in sweden and poland yet hasnt in the uk. Have no doubt larsen would be quality in the el and probably would outscore the fading lindgren and JK. Do riders from foreign leagues (not all of them) that ride here, always? put 100% into their racing when riding over here though.....?? I personally think they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 I didn't say anything about the EL in my statement, that is your creation. I stated Kenni Larsen is better than any rider Wolves have. And proved it. If you can come up with any factual information to dispute that, go ahead and do so. You used other riders in some odd analogy about the Wolves team (who ride in the EL last time I looked) I quoted the post you made as part of this discussion. Now to stop yourself from further embarrassment just drop it and move on. Bwitcher we have had some good debates over the years and ive rarely had a good debate with stevebrum BUT he has a good point. Lots of riders outscore others abroad, look at Mjj. Averaged more than many world class riders in sweden and poland yet hasnt in the uk. Have no doubt larsen would be quality in the el and probably would outscore the fading lindgren and JK. Agreed. Rarely had a remotely interesting conversation but to me it was and is a very simple point, completely ignored by BWitcher to try and do his usual point scoring exercise. My point was ONLY about what riders do in the EL, complicated completely by BWitcher trying to compare scores abroad which have no real relevance to for in the EL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Very saddened to log onto the Wolves website this morning and see Wolves & Cradley being branded together under the "Monday night is... Speedway night!" banner. Shows how the Promotion and Elite league has declined in recent years - ugh! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Very saddened to log onto the Wolves website this morning and see Wolves & Cradley being branded together under the "Monday night is... Speedway night!" banner. Shows how the Promotion and Elite league has declined in recent years - ugh! Dear me.. that is just utterly taking the p***. Are the promotion really dumb enough to think they are marketing to the same set of fans? Sure there are a few who will go to both, but the overwhelming majority of Wolves fans won't be going to Cradley meetings and vice versa. Edited January 11, 2016 by BWitcher 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Larsen is better than any Wolves rider was said, it was then stated that was up for debate and the debate was….yeah but look at the Wolves riders EL averages….so based on the "debate" Larsen is better than any Wolves rider. Edited January 11, 2016 by sparkafag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 Very saddened to log onto the Wolves website this morning and see Wolves & Cradley being branded together under the "Monday night is... Speedway night!" banner. Shows how the Promotion and Elite league has declined in recent years - ugh! Dear me.. that is just utterly taking the p***. Are the promotion really dumb enough to think they are marketing to the same set of fans? Sure there are a few who will go to both, but the overwhelming majority of Wolves fans won't be going to Cradley meetings and vice versa. I may be made to look a mug but if CVS & Adams aren't going through an exit strategy from Wolves in favour of the Spoons I'll be amazed. Or maybe they're just incompetent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted January 11, 2016 Report Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) They are sitting on a goldmine and fail to realise it. If they are going to track share, get them in the same division asap, i.e. Elite League. You are absolutely guaranteed a minimum of FOUR massive attendances. Not only would all the Wolves + Cradley fans be there, you'd get a lot of supporters who don't normally go turning up. I daresay you will in addition get a fair number of fans from other tracks go along just to taste the atmosphere. Quite simply, it would be speedway at its absolute peak in terms of league speedway. The equivalent of a playoff final, multiple times per year! Edited January 11, 2016 by BWitcher 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sweetman Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 One for Wolfsbane. Did you read the Express & Star article last night about the interview with Peter Adams. In a nutshell ." I was very close to quitting.When i think ive got nothing left to offer the club.I,ll stand aside.But i think we are some way off that." Basically,he felt wholesale changes had to made,because he felt things had gone stale between himself and the more established riders. Hence why a raft of fresh faces was made to the side in 2016. Suppose you can exclude Freddie,who has been offered the captaincy for next season.But perhaps it does explain why PK was left on the sidelines in the team building. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beowulf Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 In the same interview Adams confirmed that Freddie will start the season at number 4. I expect him to return to the number 1 position fairly quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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