Pirate Baz Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Stunning hypocricy. Every 2nd string also has am inflated average. Should have been a converted el average for all riders. .... and that is why they are putting out a list defining the heat leaders, and therefore by elimination from that list, the second strings. OK they haven't gone to the point of changing averages but they are attempting to keep the balance of teams. With the fast track riders some of them have achieved 7 to 8 point averages last year which would have eliminated them from any EL team place in 2016. Anyway why is this hypocrisy? Do you actually understand the meaning of the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 .... and that is why they are putting out a list defining the heat leaders, and therefore by elimination from that list, the second strings. OK they haven't gone to the point of changing averages but they are attempting to keep the balance of teams. With the fast track riders some of them have achieved 7 to 8 point averages last year which would have eliminated them from any EL team place in 2016. Anyway why is this hypocrisy? Do you actually understand the meaning of the word. They achieved those 7/8 point averages because there were two reserve races and in their other two they only faced second strings and other reserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 .... and that is why they are putting out a list defining the heat leaders, and therefore by elimination from that list, the second strings. OK they haven't gone to the point of changing averages but they are attempting to keep the balance of teams. With the fast track riders some of them have achieved 7 to 8 point averages last year which would have eliminated them from any EL team place in 2016. Anyway why is this hypocrisy? Do you actually understand the meaning of the word. the logical thing to do would be apply a conversion to the EL averages for FTR, rather than PL average s- noone is saying they should come in on a 7-8 point average. it's hypocricy because poole fans have been defending the use of converted PL average for reserves, where clearly they are the side getting the benefit. when it appeared another side were getting the rub of the green, the complaints start. as it turns out, it seem howarth will come in on his EL average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 the logical thing to do would be apply a conversion to the EL averages for FTR, rather than PL average s- noone is saying they should come in on a 7-8 point average. it's hypocricy because poole fans have been defending the use of converted PL average for reserves, where clearly they are the side getting the benefit. when it appeared another side were getting the rub of the green, the complaints start. as it turns out, it seem howarth will come in on his EL average. So how do you apply that to a rider who has never ridden EL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 you would then apply a PL conversion. How many reserves coming in do you think did not ride EL last year? Maximum 1 or 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 its quite funny the Poole fans getting their knickers in a twist over this! Happy for the rule with Newman but as soon as it benefits another team the toys come out the pram 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I have absolutely no issue with Kyle Howarth, whoever and wherever he rides, and hope he scores good points all season. The issue - if indeed there is one - is why he's on the 'Reserve list' (not sure what to call it now 'cos its not fast track and not a draft) when he has an established EL 2nd string average 0f 5.53 It is different to Newman - whether Poole have benefitted or not - as Newman only rode as a reserve last year and any supposed 2015 EL average is an inflated one. As I said no issue with either rider - just the logic of it all!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sweetman Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 If Wolves sign Joel Andersson,can see him swapping places with Howarth after four meetings.Think this is one of the reasons why Kyle was signed,allowing the Swede to get used to the small Monmore track at reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Absolutely, after his first four meetings he could end up as Wolves no'1 on a 10 average Absolutely, after his first four meetings he could end up as Wolves no'1 on a 7 average!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 I have absolutely no issue with Kyle Howarth, whoever and wherever he rides, and hope he scores good points all season. The issue - if indeed there is one - is why he's on the 'Reserve list' (not sure what to call it now 'cos its not fast track and not a draft) when he has an established EL 2nd string average 0f 5.53 It is different to Newman - whether Poole have benefitted or not - as Newman only rode as a reserve last year and any supposed 2015 EL average is an inflated one. As I said no issue with either rider - just the logic of it all!! Bspa have a knack of of introducing rules with dubious ways of being interpretated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Absolutely, after his first four meetings he could end up as Wolves no'1 on a 7 average!!! Is the 4 meetings just for the riders who have had their PL average converted? As it seems Howarth will use his EL average will rolling averages apply to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Is the 4 meetings just for the riders who have had their PL average converted? As it seems Howarth will use his EL average will rolling averages apply to him? Where have you seen that stated?? And if true, how can he be a reserve? Edited November 4, 2015 by Skidder1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Where have you seen that stated?? And if true, how can he be a reserve? Neal Watson posted it on the coventry thread earlier today. he should know you'd think? I have absolutely no issue with Kyle Howarth, whoever and wherever he rides, and hope he scores good points all season. The issue - if indeed there is one - is why he's on the 'Reserve list' (not sure what to call it now 'cos its not fast track and not a draft) when he has an established EL 2nd string average 0f 5.53 It is different to Newman - whether Poole have benefitted or not - as Newman only rode as a reserve last year and any supposed 2015 EL average is an inflated one. and howarths average is inflated, as he rode entirely as a second string (not as much as Newmans obviosuly). averaging 5.5 as a second string is statistically about half a point worse than averaging 8 as a reserve in this format. which makes it nonsensical that he will be 1.5 higher than Newman for team building. just as it is nonsensical that newman will be a point lower than garritty for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Where have you seen that stated?? And if true, how can he be a reserve? What average would Andersson come in on (if signed)? If it's lower than 5.52, does it mean a reserve will start the season at reserve despite having an average higher than one of the top 5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 What average would Andersson come in on (if signed)? If it's lower than 5.52, does it mean a reserve will start the season at reserve despite having an average higher than one of the top 5? That was stated as an acceptable possibility in the BSPA statement following the AGM-Part 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Sweetman Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 What average would Andersson come in on (if signed)? If it's lower than 5.52, does it mean a reserve will start the season at reserve despite having an average higher than one of the top 5? Think its likely it will be six. If its any higher,then we shouldnt sign him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMungo Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 That was stated as an acceptable possibility in the BSPA statement following the AGM-Part 1. “As a league we are delighted by the success of the draft system and there are now certain riders who are ready to move into the main body of teams, so for the Tier 1 reserves they will now get an EL average after four meetings. “They will start the season on a converted average from the PL, but they will start the season at reserve even if this is in excess of a top five rider.” I assume this is the part you are referring to? Over on the Coventry thread it has been suggested Howarth will start on his EL average, and not his PL average converted (4.19?), as per the quote. I guess we may find out in March. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 (edited) Where have you seen that stated?? And if true, how can he be a reserve? Neil Watson pretty much said on the Bees thread. Riders in the draft will be a reserve for at least 4 matches. IF for example Bees had Garrity in the draft his average would be just over 5 and in a reserve position. IF then Bees signed Robson his average is say 4.8(?) he would be a 2nd string as he isn't part of the draft. Reserves can then move into top 5 after 4 meetings if averages allow. Edit. Must remind myself to read the rest of the thread before commenting 😃 Edited November 4, 2015 by woz01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therefused Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 Jesus Christ what a mess 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted November 4, 2015 Report Share Posted November 4, 2015 If Wolves sign Joel Andersson,can see him swapping places with Howarth after four meetings.Think this is one of the reasons why Kyle was signed,allowing the Swede to get used to the small Monmore track at reserve. While Andersson's doing that, what's Howarth going to be doing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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