E I Addio Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 So we go down to the lowest common denominator and punish success? Now that would be the death of the sport. It's up to the rest to aspire to be the best. That's not what I said.. Balanced teams are essential to competitive racing. Fans won't to pay to see their home team overwhelmed week after week. Of course there needs to be an incentive for both riders and management to be on top form, that is what sport is about, but it's no good having rules slanted or applied in a way that allows some teams an advantage others don't ha ve,. The EDR is a classic example of this, given the wide range of abilities between the top and bottom EDRs Bottom line is that Speedwáy is not just a sport , it is an entertainment, and if it's not entertaining , then however noble the sporting ethos, the paying public- the ones who count- simply won't turn up, as recent years have shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 So we go down to the lowest common denominator and punish success? Now that would be the death of the sport. It's up to the rest to aspire to be the best. Isnt that the way its always been? Whats harder now is there are not an abundance of top riders willing to race in the UK. Wolves need a #1 so likely that rider will have to come from someone else - over the years we've given other teams the likes of Sam, Ronnie, PK, Mikael. Now its our time to have the system support us. I would also say now that with the silly race format and restrictions like rolling averages (brought in to thwart the likes of Poole and Coventry doing short term average manipulations but at the penalty of all), it is even harder now to build a winning team or change a losing one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 (edited) That's not what I said.. Balanced teams are essential to competitive racing. Fans won't to pay to see their home team overwhelmed week after week. Of course there needs to be an incentive for both riders and management to be on top form, that is what sport is about, but it's no good having rules slanted or applied in a way that allows some teams an advantage others don't ha ve,. The EDR is a classic example of this, given the wide range of abilities between the top and bottom EDRs Bottom line is that Speedwáy is not just a sport , it is an entertainment, and if it's not entertaining , then however noble the sporting ethos, the paying public- the ones who count- simply won't turn up, as recent years have shown. They are and they won't, exemplar Wolves 2015. What Ford and Middleditch do, in conjunction with their particular brand of skullduggery and manipulation, is do the best for their club whilst planning for the future, building from a position of strength. The majority of the rest meanwhile can't see past the next season. Isnt that the way its always been? Whats harder now is there are not an abundance of top riders willing to race in the UK. Wolves need a #1 so likely that rider will have to come from someone else - over the years we've given other teams the likes of Sam, Ronnie, PK, Mikael. Now its our time to have the system support us. I would also say now that with the silly race format and restrictions like rolling averages (brought in to thwart the likes of Poole and Coventry doing short term average manipulations but at the penalty of all), it is even harder now to build a winning team or change a losing one. Not always. Why should the system have to support any promotion who have had their good times but have failed to build from a position of strength for the future and allowed the world to pass them by? The only way Wolves & others can catch up now is by moving the goal posts in their favour. Edited October 17, 2015 by Wolfsbane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 When was it not? There has always been a points limit and these days the restrictions seem worst than ever. Going back to my first year, 86, Oxford won everything, next year they offloaded Simon Wigg to Hackney to stay within points limit. Poole have lost riders in more recent years like Bjarne and Davey Watt when they were both in their prime. Wolves had to give up PK after we won the title in 2009. For the first time I recall Wolves have no true #1. Can you tell me where next years #1 will realistically come from? I can never recall being in this position since Sigalos got injured in 84. We've been the victim of this system way more than the beneficiary. So, if its our turn to reap the benefit, so be it. Its like a pension scheme, we've paid into it, now lets get something back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 You have all resigned yourselves to Tai not returning then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 Seeing as he's apparently said he's not, yes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 get used to the fact the top riders dont want or need to ride over here its only gonna get worse, the el should get into the habit of training/creating its own riders that eventually become top stars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 get used to the fact the top riders dont want or need to ride over here its only gonna get worse, the el should get into the habit of training/creating its own riders that eventually become top stars I think it has, from various countries! Greg, Nicki, Crump, Holder, Tai, etc etc etc all got their career foundation in the UK. Nowadays it is more a stepping stone as the EL has declined by its own decision and out of date logistics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) I think it has, from various countries! Greg, Nicki, Crump, Holder, Tai, etc etc etc all got their career foundation in the UK. Nowadays it is more a stepping stone as the EL has declined by its own decision and out of date logistics. Or you could say that a lot of the blame could be the impact of the GP series on the EL in this country,I really personally don't care if the GP boys are here or not ,there's a lot that can be done before we need to beg that lot to come here.Once we come to terms with that and move on looking at improving and protecting what we have got here and riders who WANT to ride in our leagues we will not be at the beck and call of these super stars. Edited October 18, 2015 by FAST GATER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) I think it has, from various countries! Greg, Nicki, Crump, Holder, Tai, etc etc etc all got their career foundation in the UK. Nowadays it is more a stepping stone as the EL has declined by its own decision and out of date logistics. maybe but that was back in the day when the british league was THE place to become a top star , its not now promoters should be creating / training british talent for the future youth programme is where we lag behind Edited October 18, 2015 by heathen chemistry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCOGNITO Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 It is hard to create British talent when you allow foreign riders to get a 3.00 average and take the places that should be for the National League riders looking to progress 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 and having a british WORLD CHAMPION not riding here doesn't help our cause...but I fully back Tai not wanting to ride here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex2000 Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 It is hard to create British talent when you allow foreign riders to get a 3.00 average and take the places that should be for the National League riders looking to progress You pointing at zac and Spiller?- Both British. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted October 18, 2015 Report Share Posted October 18, 2015 It is hard to create British talent when you allow foreign riders to get a 3.00 average and take the places that should be for the National League riders looking to progress The real issue isn't a couple of riders getting into NL, its the amount of European riders. The squeeze put on Australians and Americans wont create a single job for british riders. Its the law of the land that European riders can race in the UK and look at some clubs, especially PL. A cheap option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 and having a british WORLD CHAMPION not riding here doesn't help our cause...but I fully back Tai not wanting to ride hereIt's a tad embarrassing in a way. What european rider in the GPs doesn't ride in their home country? 🙈 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 It's a tad embarrassing in a way. What european rider in the GPs doesn't ride in their home country? What would Tai gain for racing in England?..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 What would Tai gain for racing in England?.....Nothing, but Nicki rides in Denmark and so does Iversen (4 leagues +gp)!! Makes Magic look bad who apparently moans that 2 leagues is too much! Just a bit embarrassing when Britain's top rider doesn't ride in the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 It's a tad embarrassing in a way. What european rider in the GPs doesn't ride in their home country? Isn't Chris Holder not doing Aussie Nationals by choice Lisa? Nothing wrong with that in my book by the way, but kind of contradicts your point a tad perhaps? Nicki doing the Danish league (which I incidentally saw a meeting with him in last June and was impressed by the standard) is Wednesday nights only. The complaint of Tai and others is the modern day EL schedule of 5 race nights just doesn't work. The Elite League needs to find a way to include these riders. Whether that be a 1 or 2 nights a week league (you could run the same number of meetings with no double up riders missing if EL was Monday and Wednesdays only), or allow riders to run lesser schedule (sharing a position or squad) this should be looked into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 (edited) Isn't Chris Holder not doing Aussie Nationals by choice Lisa? Nothing wrong with that in my book by the way, but kind of contradicts your point a tad perhaps? Nicki doing the Danish league (which I incidentally saw a meeting with him in last June and was impressed by the standard) is Wednesday nights only. The complaint of Tai and others is the modern day EL schedule of 5 race nights just doesn't work. The Elite League needs to find a way to include these riders. Whether that be a 1 or 2 nights a week league (you could run the same number of meetings with no double up riders missing if EL was Monday and Wednesdays only), or allow riders to run lesser schedule (sharing a position or squad) this should be looked into. Tbh I didn't know Holder wasn't doing them? Plus I did say European GP riders I do understand why Tai isn't riding in England, no probs with that. Bit embarassing for us that he isn't though. You should want to ride in your home country! Edited October 19, 2015 by lisa-colette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted October 19, 2015 Report Share Posted October 19, 2015 Isn't Chris Holder not doing Aussie Nationals by choice Lisa? Nothing wrong with that in my book by the way, but kind of contradicts your point a tad perhaps? Nicki doing the Danish league (which I incidentally saw a meeting with him in last June and was impressed by the standard) is Wednesday nights only. The complaint of Tai and others is the modern day EL schedule of 5 race nights just doesn't work. The Elite League needs to find a way to include these riders. Whether that be a 1 or 2 nights a week league (you could run the same number of meetings with no double up riders missing if EL was Monday and Wednesdays only), or allow riders to run lesser schedule (sharing a position or squad) this should be looked into. we dont have double up riders anymore ... standard 1-7, if riders are missing then usually its down to also being a premier league match so team has to get cover , really a better fixture list could be made up..... there is always gaps of weeks without a match .... then to catch up they end up having 3/4 in a week or having to have double headers - stupid really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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