INCOGNITO Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 In the averages there was three riders miles ahead of the rest and already Maciej Janowski has declared himself out of British Speedway next season as he aims to build on his GP career. Jason Doyle has said he won't be back at Leicester and on 9.44 and Iversen just under 9 the next highest is under 8 points a meeting and it could be difficult to accommodate riders on such high averages. Freddie Lindgren on 6.11 has to be considered as the one rider to keep from this season's team and it looks like PK is not planning on coming back. Jacob and Ricky are fine at home but poor away scores must put any places for next season unlikely and a move for Andersen or Schlein should be a better rider if the team are to pick up points away Could Swindon being unsettled mean Zengota, Batchelor or Morris be looking for a new team instead of hanging on waiting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 The EL and the British Finals are contested on the same track, so can be compared. Sweden and Poland, as has been explained to you numerous times, is completely different. I don't need to make spin, I leave that to you to try and prove something ridiculous. The figures show you that it's not .the only thing that is ridiculous is your defence . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) The figures show you that it's not .the only thing that is ridiculous is your defence . Figures don't prove anything in terms of whether a rider was trying or not. Your claim is he wasn't trying.. reality says otherwise. Indeed Stevebrum in his weekly updates says otherwise. Edited October 16, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 It all adds up, the old format, easy race comes along that you win and your confidence and interest levels pick up again. It's similar to the old system when a rider dropped to reserve and suddenly he could beat riders he couldn't get near to before.. Or now, when a rider drops to second string he'll suddenly start beating the heat leaders he was clueless against previously. Momentum, confidence etc should never be underestimated. Think we should wrap this debate up and bow to Bwitcher's superior Knowledge that in his 6th season at Wolves the World champion lacked confidence riding in a a watered down Elite league while instantly regaining his confidence when he left these shores to compete in the superior competition of the Grand Prix ,World cup, Swedish and Polish leagues. Simples ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Think we should wrap this debate up and bow to Bwitcher's superior Knowledge that in his 6th season at Wolves the World champion lacked confidence riding in a a watered down Elite league while instantly regaining his confidence when he left these shores to compete in the superior competition of the Grand Prix ,World cup, Swedish and Polish leagues. Simples ! Another childish response. Try and engage your brain for one moment and come up with a reason as to WHY Woffinden would willingly choose to not try in the Elite League, putting himself at risk of injury (which happened twice), earning less money and losing the support of his fans... he's there anyway, he's not skipping meetings.. but you feel he'll go to all the trouble of turning up to not bother trying... hmmmm... In addition, if he's not going to bother trying, what was he doing overtaking people? What was he doing team riding team mates? What was he doing getting involved in crashes whilst trying to pass? If you're not going to try you'll do a KK and just give up at the back. Nobody denies he had a poor season for Wolves. It wasn't deliberate however.. and as has been shown, he didn't miraculously discover form in either the British Final or World Cup round.. he was still below par in both of those events. Anyway, we're not going to agree I suggest, so we should simply agree to disagree and move on... likewise with Orion and the Brumster. Edited October 16, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 On the official site Mr Adams is talking about significant changes at Wolves over the Winter. Looks like they will be re siting the burger van then Wolfie Perhaps he has decided the team manager should be sacked 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 In the averages there was three riders miles ahead of the rest and already Maciej Janowski has declared himself out of British Speedway next season as he aims to build on his GP career. Jason Doyle has said he won't be back at Leicester and on 9.44 and Iversen just under 9 the next highest is under 8 points a meeting and it could be difficult to accommodate riders on such high averages. Freddie Lindgren on 6.11 has to be considered as the one rider to keep from this season's team and it looks like PK is not planning on coming back. Jacob and Ricky are fine at home but poor away scores must put any places for next season unlikely and a move for Andersen or Schlein should be a better rider if the team are to pick up points away Could Swindon being unsettled mean Zengota, Batchelor or Morris be looking for a new team instead of hanging on waiting Has PK retired ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 No it isn't when you factor in the quality of opponent. You don't seem to grasp, the British Final is a far lower standard than an EL meeting. You're trying to claim Woffy was in 'GP form' for this meeting.. if he was, nobody would have touched him. You're arguing against yourself on this topic anyway Steve and it would be highly embarrassing for you if I had to start quoting you. You see, I've read through the updates from 2014 and meeting after meeting there are quotes from you of battles that Woffinden had been in, overtaking people, trying to team ride, being in good races. These are not things that take place when a rider isn't trying. What it depicts is a rider who should be scoring more than he is, but not through lack of effort, which is what has been suggested on this thread. I'm always happy to agree to disagree. My last memory of Tai in a Wolves jacket (the only form that matters to me) was one of huge disappointment particularly given how he turned his form around in Europe and the GP's. For whatever reason he was unable to turn it around in the EL and popping wheelies at the back isn't my idea of caring that much. Happy to close this part of the topic anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Has PK retired ? PK told me last Friday night he is racing in 2016! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) PK told me last Friday night he is racing in 2016! Glad to hear he is Edited October 16, 2015 by FAST GATER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Stevebrum, you keep mentioning this 'fastest engine' and why didn't he bring it over for Wolves meetings. The insinuation to me appears to be that his British engines were therefore crap. That's a massive assumption. Riders of course have multiple bikes, engines and set ups in all countries. We don't know truly how much faster this best engine was. We don't know where he used it. Might have just been for GPs and it was brought to the British Final to test ahead of Cardiff, perhaps. We don't know how often this engine needs maintenance, but its obviously impractical to use this one engine everywhere. We don't know if a sponsor places restrictions on the use of equipment. We don't know the money that has gone into this engine to make it perform at this level We don't know given the cost of this engine and money to be made in Britain that it is even financially viable to use this in British League We don't know if this engine has a magic unicorn in it which would transform me into a GP winner. You only have one tiny piece of information. For me, on a practical and business sense, why would I use such an engine in the lowest paying league when I'm chasing a World Championship? I would imagine any world contending riders best engine and worst engine category would be a bit like going to the Playboy mansion and having to chose the top 6 best looking girls. 6 wouldn't be a ropy boiler! Edited October 16, 2015 by SteveEvans 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Stevebrum, you keep mentioning this 'fastest engine' and why didn't he bring it over for Wolves meetings. The insinuation to me appears to be that his British engines were therefore crap. That's a massive assumption. We don't know given the cost of this engine and money to be made in Britain that it is even financially viable to use this in British League You only have one tiny piece of information. For me, on a practical and business sense, why would I use such an engine in the lowest paying league when I'm chasing a World Championship? Had put this to bed with bwitcher but it appears you still wish to debate my opinion and views. Point 1- whatever he was using in the EL one could assume was 'crap' - because his form and indifferent scores point to this. It's not like set ups, tracks, conditions in the EL/UK are alien to Tai. Point 2 - if the engine wasn't cost effective to use in the EL the preferred option appears to be carry using bikes/engines that are clearly not working in the UK. Point 3 - why would he? Because the UK/EL/Wolves was his lowest priority. He struggled initially in Europe and GP's but found the finance/sponsorship/engines/set ups etc to get on top of it. More proof that EL/Wolves was a low priority. His priority to the UK has been well be discussed and knowledge gained. He didn't want to race EL at the end of 2013 and PA made him change his mind and Tai himself said he shouldn't have ridden last year requiring him to take time out during the season. Naturally he has given the EL a wide berth this year. No idea what deal he was on at Wolves or if it was affordable to be able to use engines that have worked well for him in previous seasons. My assumption watching him all season long was that he was using equipment that wasn't working for him all season long. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveEvans Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Stevebrum, you keep mentioning this 'fastest engine' and why didn't he bring it over for Wolves meetings. The insinuation to me appears to be that his British engines were therefore crap. That's a massive assumption. We don't know given the cost of this engine and money to be made in Britain that it is even financially viable to use this in British League You only have one tiny piece of information. For me, on a practical and business sense, why would I use such an engine in the lowest paying league when I'm chasing a World Championship? Had put this to bed with bwitcher but it appears you still wish to debate my opinion and views. Point 1- whatever he was using in the EL one could assume was 'crap' - because his form and indifferent scores point to this. It's not like set ups, tracks, conditions in the EL/UK are alien to Tai. Point 2 - if the engine wasn't cost effective to use in the EL the preferred option appears to be carry using bikes/engines that are clearly not working in the UK. Point 3 - why would he? Because the UK/EL/Wolves was his lowest priority. He struggled initially in Europe and GP's but found the finance/sponsorship/engines/set ups etc to get on top of it. More proof that EL/Wolves was a low priority. His priority to the UK has been well be discussed and knowledge gained. He didn't want to race EL at the end of 2013 and PA made him change his mind and Tai himself said he shouldn't have ridden last year requiring him to take time out during the season. Naturally he has given the EL a wide berth this year. No idea what deal he was on at Wolves or if it was affordable to be able to use engines that have worked well for him in previous seasons. My assumption watching him all season long was that he was using equipment that wasn't working for him all season long. Steve, Post #264 (posted overnight for me) brings the engine up AGAIN so hence I made my post. There is so much here that you or I don't know. It is correct that he was talked into riding for the Wolves last year. That for me is the biggest red flag. We also know the schedule got on top of him. The point of equipment is assumption - it could have some merit but my point is we have no idea! The world champion should surely be able to do well despite which of his engines he is using. Also if the club were on top of this they shouldn't have allowed him to use motors that weren't fresh and on top of their game. Steve, I understand your frustration, you saw it most meetings, but I think the engine theory isn't as big a factor as you believe. That's all! Edited October 16, 2015 by SteveEvans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted October 16, 2015 Report Share Posted October 16, 2015 Steve, Post #264 (posted overnight for me) brings the engine up AGAIN so hence I made my post. There is so much here that you or I don't know. It is correct that he was talked into riding for the Wolves last year. That for me is the biggest red flag. We also know the schedule got on top of him. The point of equipment is assumption - it could have some merit but my point is we have no idea! The world champion should surely be able to do well despite which of his engines he is using. Also if the club were on top of this they shouldn't have allowed him to use motors that weren't fresh and on top of their game. Steve, I understand your frustration, you saw it most meetings, but I think the engine theory isn't as big a factor as you believe. That's all! Hugely frustrated! However I am sure there is plenty none of us know about reasons why he struggled. It doesn't even bear thinking about that the engines weren't the problem. However of course that is also very possible. I hope that it isn't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 News on the Winter Spin-in. http://www.wolverhamptonwolves.co/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 News on the Winter Spin-in. http://www.wolverhamptonwolves.co/ I don't know about spin but he is dead right when he says if there is to be a monopoly on prizes it will be the death of the sport. Most fans North of Cheatford Muddlo understand that . The question is whether the BSPA actually do anything constructive about it, particularly where the EDR is concerned 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 And the El is a lower standard than Sweden and Poland ...and you go on about others making there own spin ..the ironyactually, if you are riding as a heat leader in the uk, the standard if riders you face is very similar to both poland and sweden 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 actually, if you are riding as a heat leader in the uk, the standard if riders you face is very similar to both poland and Sweden Correct of course waiheke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfsbane Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I don't know about spin but he is dead right when he says if there is to be a monopoly on prizes it will be the death of the sport. Most fans North of Cheatford Muddlo understand that . The question is whether the BSPA actually do anything constructive about it, particularly where the EDR is concerned So we go down to the lowest common denominator and punish success? Now that would be the death of the sport. It's up to the rest to aspire to be the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 So we go down to the lowest common denominator and punish success? Now that would be the death of the sport. It's up to the rest to aspire to be the best. That is what they usually do 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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