Wolverhampton 2016

[E I Addio]

Freddie didn't say it, Coventry did.

Suddenly the engines so used to being used in the EL and getting results suddenly don't work or set ups forgotten/ignored??

He didn't once mention bringing his best engine for the previous British Finals because his preferred EL set ups and engines were strong enough prior to 2014.

Something wasn't working in the EL, hence why he brought over one that worked for the final.

That engine worked well, so why didn't we see it for other league matches for Wolves?

Oh so Coventry made it all up ? Anyone who has followed any form of motor sport for more than 5 minutes miknows that people say all kinds of things to try to rattle the opposition because unless, for example somebody strips the engine down and looks inside it nobody will be any the wiser. What may or may not apply to Freddie applies equally to Tai.

 

I'll just make a couple of final comments because quite frankly the discussion is getting ridiculous because come what may you are determined that tpTai's bikes were, in your words sub standard, based little more than your observation when clearly you know next to nothing about engines.

 

I would say first of all that I can't comment on the quality of Tai's 2914 engines but all I am saying is I doubt whether anyone else can apart from Peter Johns.

 

Firstly, as previously said. Tai stated at the last GP that he didn't have a "best" engine but has about 5 GP engines he uses for different tracks. Even if he brought one of his GP engines for the British Final that doesn't mean his normal EL engine was, in your words "substandard". It may well have been perfectly adequate for normal EL racing.

 

A couple of points about the speed of bikes. Talking to Chris Louis a few years ago , who said he had ridden Tony Rickardssons bike and it actually wasn't all that fast , but it was set up in such a way thatt Rick could hang on to if and get the best from it, which, according to CL is more important than sheer speed on UK tracks. Half the time when a rider lacks speed it is just as likely that he is getting too much power and spinning up as not getting enough power. I don't doubt that it's possible Tai's bikes were not all they could have been but there could have been a reason for that other than a deliberate and conscious decision to use sub standard engines over here. In fact most EL riders have two engines, s few have more but none has one engine for all EL tracks so for your theory to stand up Tai would have to have at least two substandard engines over here, so as to earn less money.

 

The second point about engines is that you yourself said on another thread that PK's poor 2014 form was due to engines not the rider and events have proved that to be more ar less correct, yet you apply the opposite to Tai.

 

My final point which I think is significant was when Tau guested for Lakeside. He broke his collar bone in a GP on the Saturday and honoured his guest booking on the following Friday. With a broken collarbone he had every reason pull out of the guest booking and I wish he had have done because he clearly wasn't fit, and nobody would have criticised him if he had done. As was he rode and scored four points, clearly in a lot of pain. My point is that the fact that he had the guts and commitment to honour a guest booking straight after an injury with the World Champinship still at stake at that stage, doesn't suggest to me that he was treating the EL with disdain. It suggests to me that he was doing his best to maintain his commitment to EL racing that season, especially as it wasn't even his club.

 

You have your opinion but as I said I remain unconvinced. I have nothing else to add. We must agree to differ

Edited October 14, 2015 by E I Addio

[B.V 72]

Oh are we still in 2014 i will come back after the AGM.

[orion]

Oh so Coventry made it all up ? Anyone who has followed any form of motor sport for more than 5 minutes miknows that people say all kinds of things to try to rattle the opposition because unless, for example somebody strips the engine down and looks inside it nobody will be any the wiser. What may or may not apply to Freddie applies equally to Tai.

 

I'll just make a couple of final comments because quite frankly the discussion is getting ridiculous because come what may you are determined that tpTai's bikes were, in your words sub standard, based little more than your observation when clearly you know next to nothing about engines.

 

I would say first of all that I can't comment on the quality of Tai's 2914 engines but all I am saying is I doubt whether anyone else can apart from Peter Johns.

 

Firstly, as previously said. Tai stated at the last GP that he didn't have a "best" engine but has about 5 GP engines he uses for different tracks. Even if he brought one of his GP engines for the British Final that doesn't mean his normal EL engine was, in your words "substandard". It may well have been perfectly adequate for normal EL racing.

 

A couple of points about the speed of bikes. Talking to Chris Louis a few years ago , who said he had ridden Tony Rickardssons bike and it actually wasn't all that fast , but it was set up in such a way thatt Rick could hang on to if and get the best from it, which, according to CL is more important than sheer speed on UK tracks. Half the time when a rider lacks speed it is just as likely that he is getting too much power and spinning up as not getting enough power. I don't doubt that it's possible Tai's bikes were not all they could have been but there could have been a reason for that other than a deliberate and conscious decision to use sub standard engines over here. In fact most EL riders have two engines, s few have more but none has one engine for all EL tracks so for your theory to stand up Tai would have to have at least two substandard engines over here, so as to earn less money.

 

The second point about engines is that you yourself said on another thread that PK's poor 2014 form was due to engines not the rider and events have proved that to be more ar less correct, yet you apply the opposite to Tai.

 

My final point which I think is significant was when Tau guested for Lakeside. He broke his collar bone in a GP on the Saturday and honoured his guest booking on the following Friday. With a broken collarbone he had every reason pull out of the guest booking and I wish he had have done because he clearly wasn't fit, and nobody would have criticised him if he had done. As was he rode and scored four points, clearly in a lot of pain. My point is that the fact that he had the guts and commitment to honour a guest booking straight after an injury with the World Champinship still at stake at that stage, doesn't suggest to me that he was treating the EL with disdain. It suggests to me that he was doing his best to maintain his commitment to EL racing that season, especially as it wasn't even his club.

 

You have your opinion but as I said I remain unconvinced. I have nothing else to add. We must agree to differ

What meeting Did Woffy guest for lakeside with a broken collarbone in 2014 ?

[Falcon Hammer]

What meeting Did Woffy guest for lakeside with a broken collarbone in 2014 ?

12/07/13 v Swindon - Even unpacked his van to ride in ht.15, as Lewis Bridger was the only one prepared to ride, due to track conditions

 

Didn't have the best of nights & even fell in one race - Gave it 100% though - maximum respect

[E I Addio]

What meeting Did Woffy guest for lakeside with a broken collarbone in 2014 ?

 

 

He didn't. It was 2013, CLANG ! ! ! The thread must be giving me dementia ..

 

Doesn't change my mind though

[orion]

 

 

He didn't. It was 2013, CLANG ! ! ! The thread must be giving me dementia ..

 

Doesn't change my mind though

No worries mate .. time to get back to wolves 2016 anyhow ,

[stevebrum]

Was he?

 

Scored less than Cook and Barker.. about the level he operated at all year in the UK with the odd exception.

 

took 2 rides to get the set up sorted. And way quicker than his 2014 set up.

As the result showed, won with ease.

 

I'll just make a couple of final comments because quite frankly the discussion is getting ridiculous because come what may you are determined that tpTai's bikes were, in your words sub standard, based little more than your observation when clearly you know next to nothing about engines.

 

You have your opinion but as I said I remain unconvinced. I have nothing else to add. We must agree to differ

Happy to differ. I only go by watching him week in week out and seeing him struggle yet in one meeting (the British final) he brings a different engine that, after 2 races of adjustments, flew when it mattered.

So why not keep that engine here or use it here as well??

It's clear he had an engine that was at least faster at Monmore once set up changes were made.

Like you say I have nothing more to add having watched him all season long I have a point that has been mentioned by several.

[INCOGNITO]

Sam Masters wasn't far away from the rostrum on Monday and could see him finally getting a chance at Monmore Green but if it was going to one big league surely he would be a heat leader and would they sign him and be able to keep Lindgren Thorssell and sign Andersson.

 

Ashley Morris could be heading back and Max Clegg seems to be well thought of at Wolverhampton. Paul Starke would have to be considered as he goes well here and has had a great year in both leagues.

[SteveEvans]

 

 

took 2 rides to get the set up sorted. And way quicker than his 2014 set up.

As the result showed, won with ease.

 

 

 

Steve, how do you know it took 2 rides to get the set up sorted? Were you in the pits with him? What tire pressure and sprocket size was he running?

 

The British Final is a much easier meeting than an EL match - in an EL match you are likely racing 8 heatleaders in 5 races these days. The British Final has about 3 heatleaders in 5 heats before the final.

 

Looking at Tai's scores in 2014 he had some high scores and some atrocious ones. I was actually at one of the atrocious ones versus Poole where his points score did not reflect the effort I observed.

 

All this nonsense about 'bringing my best engine' is often misconstrued to the fact that what he was riding in the UK was junk. Peter Johns doesn't produce junk and around Monmore, a technical track, a 'best engine' isn't going to make someone like Tai suddenly two seconds a heat faster.

 

My personal opinion (which is nothing more than that) is that Tai, being a world champion at a young age simply thought he was indestructible when he won the title and took on a schedule beyond what could be handled, especially when you throw in all of his PR appearances and charity work. A naïve mistake which backfired and hit us hard as a team.

 

This year his approach to his race schedule (and his consistently put points on the board in the GPs) is very Hancockish and the result shows.

 

This fixation on a rider having a 'super engine' and 'junk engines' in the UK is something that could be put together in the mind of anyone on the terraces hearing what they want and having nothing factual from the rider to go off.

 

This is over a year ago and Tai isn't on our 2016 radar anyway I would imagine so I also am baffled at why this takes up pages of this thread.

Edited October 14, 2015 by SteveEvans

[Pinny]

Fact is riders best engines will be used in the countrys where they earn more money.

 

Of course they all have a best engine .... If it came down to a choice of an engine to use do you really think theyd say "it doesnt matter all 4 are the same"? Course they wouldnt - theyd pick their best one.

 

No idea why woffy struggled so much in '14 but a reigning world champ shouldnt be struggling to average anything less than 8.5 if their full attention is being applied. The fact that he used to bleat on about a heavy schedule pointing at the UK set up didnt help his cause.

 

A number one dropping from 9+ to just over 7 is unacceptable in any case. Even worse that he was world champ at the time, and was flying elsewhere.

[BWitcher]

Fact is riders best engines will be used in the countrys where they earn more money.

 

Of course they all have a best engine .... If it came down to a choice of an engine to use do you really think theyd say "it doesnt matter all 4 are the same"? Course they wouldnt - theyd pick their best one.

 

No idea why woffy struggled so much in '14 but a reigning world champ shouldnt be struggling to average anything less than 8.5 if their full attention is being applied. The fact that he used to bleat on about a heavy schedule pointing at the UK set up didnt help his cause.

 

A number one dropping from 9+ to just over 7 is unacceptable in any case. Even worse that he was world champ at the time, and was flying elsewhere.

 

Which is Tai's best engine then as you claim he must have one... after all the one he was riding for Wolves he scored 18 in a GP at Gorzow..

 

So your argument is he wasn't using inferior engines for Wolves is pretty much nullified by him using it in a GP.. or is that an event he doesn't care about too?

 

Nobody denies that his form wasn't acceptable.. whether it was deliberate is another matter.

Edited October 15, 2015 by BWitcher

[orion]

 

Which is Tai's best engine then as you claim he must have one... after all the one he was riding for Wolves he scored 18 in a GP at Gorzow..

 

 

Had a look at 2014 results for Gorzow and can't see a 18pt score for Tai .

[stevebrum]

A number one dropping from 9+ to just over 7 is unacceptable in any case. Even worse that he was world champ at the time, and was flying elsewhere.

 

unbelievably for once you say something I completely agree with.

 

Steve, how do you know it took 2 rides to get the set up sorted? Were you in the pits with him? What tire pressure and sprocket size was he running?

 

 

How do I know ?? Sky were there covering every angle and interviewing him after virtually every heat. Those were Tai's words not mine.

Maybe you didn't get chance to watch the televised meeting before accusing me of not being aware of that info.

Maybe you could share what tyre pressure and sprocket size he has previously used successfully at Monmore then?

[oldace]

Had a look at 2014 results for Gorzow and can't see a 18pt score for Tai .

 

 

Tai didn't ride at Gorzow in 2014. He withdrew after practice struggling with a hand injury.

[BWitcher]

Had a look at 2014 results for Gorzow and can't see a 18pt score for Tai .

 

 

 

Tai didn't ride at Gorzow in 2014. He withdrew after practice struggling with a hand injury.

 

I didn't mention 2014.

[oldace]

 

 

I didn't mention 2014.

 

 

Not been following the thread, I was simply responding to the mention of Tai scoring 18 at Gorzow in 2014.

 

Tai has ridden in GPs at Gorzow twice

 

12 points in 2013 and 18 points this year

[BWitcher]

 

 

Not been following the thread, I was simply responding to the mention of Tai scoring 18 at Gorzow in 2014.

 

Tai has ridden in GPs at Gorzow twice

 

12 points in 2013 and 18 points this year

 

No worries.

[Tommy Sweetman]

Think one of the points you made about Tai not making starts in 2014 is a valid one.

 

He was carrying injuries for a large part of the time,and Monmore being a small technical track does put a lot of strain on the body to carry out some of the manoeuvres.

 

Probably some other factors involved in his poor season,but if i remember right,that particular season Tai,s gating ability did really let him down big time.

[BWitcher]

Think one of the points you made about Tai not making starts in 2014 is a valid one.

 

He was carrying injuries for a large part of the time,and Monmore being a small technical track does put a lot of strain on the body to carry out some of the manoeuvres.

 

Probably some other factors involved in his poor season,but if i remember right,that particular season Tai,s gating ability did really let him down big time.

 

Exactly, he mentioned this many times during the season, the setup that was firing him out of the gate the previous season, wasn't working and he couldn't figure it out.

 

In addition to this, as good as Tai is, he was never a 'master' of Monmore to the levels that Sam, PK, Mikael Max, Lindgren had been in previous years.

 

Although riding it most certainly has helped him on the world stage as his use of the cutbacks demonstrate!

[sommelier]

 

Exactly, he mentioned this many times during the season, the setup that was firing him out of the gate the previous season, wasn't working and he couldn't figure it out.

 

In addition to this, as good as Tai is, he was never a 'master' of Monmore to the levels that Sam, PK, Mikael Max, Lindgren had been in previous years.

 

Although riding it most certainly has helped him on the world stage as his use of the cutbacks demonstrate!

Don't forget Mr Ward in the master's of Monmore!