Who Would Have Won The World Final Of The 1 Hit Wonders.

[The White Knight]

Your opinion Norbold i have so much respect for,and you are right Fundin his stats are amazing to be honest.Ove's record 15 final appearances (1954/69 missed 1966 banned.Barry's record 18 finals (1954/70 ( missed 71 Ole won Barry's last final 1972 both have incredible records.I do think Barry was the better of the two from 68 to 70 but both are legends, "Norbold how good was Briggs around the big West HAM in your opinion.? Also is it right ? did Craven have a great record against Fundin at Hyde Rd my uncle told me Ove road the line alot there and Craven's head to head record against Ove was very good indeed.My uncle Norbold is to blame for me being very bias when Briggo is concerned.

I didn't know your Uncle sydney - so I don't know where I got my bias as far as Briggo is concerned. In my opinion he would have won that 1972 World Final had he not been tee-boned by bloody Persson. Even after all these years I haven't forgiven Persson for that.

 

I know there are those who say it was a racing accident - I was there and I know what I saw.

[norbold]

As always, it is a matter of opinion, but, as I have said, quite apart from the records which show Fundin as a more consistently good rider than Briggo, my own observation as both a New Cross supporter and West Ham supporter, the short and the long of it as you might say, definitely biases me towards Fundin. It's not something I can back up with statistics as such, though I suppose I could if I went through all my programmes from that period, but to me, Fundin was simply the greatest and, even in the period of the Big Five, was the dominant rider. I remember him beating Briggo for example fairly easily in the Golden Helmet at New Cross, setting up the track record in the process. And that was Briggo's home track at the time.

 

I mentioned Keith Farman's records above which show that Fundin beat the others of the Big Five more times than they beat him and that it was Peter Craven who had the best record against him, rather than Briggo. Though yes it is true that in the period 1968-1970, Briggo was better than Fundin, but both were probably past their best by then. I think the fact that Fundin actually won the World Title in 1967, when most people thought he was past it and had no chance, also speaks volumes for him.

 

All I can say really is that I was there and I know what I saw and what I thought at the time. The fact that my own memories are backed up by the record books only confirms my view that Fundin was no doubt a better and more consistent rider than Briggo.

 

As far as Briggo's record at West Ham goes, it's not a particular memory of mine that he was unbeatable round there, though I may be wrong. The rider I remember as being unbeatable at Custom House was Bjorn Knutson and then Sverre Harrfeldt.

[stratton]

I didn't know your Uncle sydney - so I don't know where I got my bias as far as Briggo is concerned. In my opinion he would have won that 1972 World Final had he not been tee-boned by bloody Persson. Even after all these years I haven't forgiven Persson for that.

 

I know there are those who say it was a racing accident - I was there and I know what I saw.

Yes i believe he would of won it Olsen if he had not of fell in one race maybe would of been his nearest rival that night.Would 13 or 14 points been anough that night probably,for him to of won a fifth title would of been great.But it did tarnish Briggos career and he did well to comeback to ride to a half decent level after with those horrific injuries.

[E I Addio]

As always, it is a matter of opinion, but, as I have said, quite apart from the records which show Fundin as a more consistently good rider than Briggo, my own observation as both a New Cross supporter and West Ham supporter, the short and the long of it as you might say, definitely biases me towards Fundin. It's not something I can back up with statistics as such, though I suppose I could if I went through all my programmes from that period, but to me, Fundin was simply the greatest and, even in the period of the Big Five, was the dominant rider. I remember him beating Briggo for example fairly easily in the Golden Helmet at New Cross, setting up the track record in the process. And that was Briggo's home track at the time.

I mentioned Keith Farman's records above which show that Fundin beat the others of the Big Five more times than they beat him and that it was Peter Craven who had the best record against him, rather than Briggo. Though yes it is true that in the period 1968-1970, Briggo was better than Fundin, but both were probably past their best by then. I think the fact that Fundin actually won the World Title in 1967, when most people thought he was past it and had no chance, also speaks volumes for him.

All I can say really is that I was there and I know what I saw and what I thought at the time. The fact that my own memories are backed up by the record books only confirms my view that Fundin was no doubt a better and more consistent rider than Briggo.

As far as Briggo's record at West Ham goes, it's not a particular memory of mine that he was unbeatable round there, though I may be wrong. The rider I remember as being unbeatable at Custom House was Bjorn Knutson and then Sverre Harrfeldt.

Fair comment Norbold,. I really only saw Briggo and Fundin when they were past their peak and saw more of Briggo so maybe that skews my opinion.

 

Barry was the first rider to take fitness really seriously and his comment was that fitness doesn't make you a better rider but it keeps you at the top longer so that may explain why he seemed better than Fundin in their declining years, although it could equally be that Fundin had so long at the top by that stage his hunger was going.

 

I have to say though that when we talk about them declining they we're still far better in their declining years than most riders were at their peak. Also Ronnie Moore, I only saw him after he came back in his late thirties after a six year retirement, and maybe he was a shade behind Fundin and Briggs by that stage but he was still breathtakingly good.

Edited September 14, 2015 by E I Addio

[customhouseregular]

Spot-on Norbold and EIA. Bjorn and Sverre were flying around Custom House and Briggo, good as he was could not catch Stan Stevens... I know, I was there .

I only caught Ronnie Moore at the end of his career but he was still streets ahead of most of the competition.

[norbold]

Now you're talking, chr! Stan Stevens, my hero. I was there that night as well.

[Wessex Wanderer]

Just want to add something about Fundin and who was best of the big five. Many years ago I had the privilege of a chat with an old time Norwich fan who had seen them all from the very beginning. The conversation got around to the big five and the old timer was of the firm opinion that Ove was always dominant over Briggs, Moore and Knutsson. But he reckoned the only one who could consistently bother him was Craven.

 

That's not to say that Craven was better, more that he beat 3 and drew with the other 1.

 

Can't remember the name of the old boy. Sorry.

 

These conversations are brilliant and make such a refreshing change from some of the "we are better than you" arguments or the interminable rows over 0.bloody 1 on somebody's race average that seem to dominate other parts of the forum.

 

[lucifer sam]

I'm sure at one point in the John Chaplin biography that Fundin is quoted that he saw Craven as his biggest rival, although I did read it around 9 years ago so the memory is a little hazy.

 

The contemporary World Rankings, plus more recent recollections, tend to put Fundin ahead. But that's not to say that Briggo wasn't a great rider in his own right, some of Briggo's accomplishments will take some beating. For example the six successive wins in the BLRC, which is outstanding when you think it didn't even happen at the height of his career, and that Mauger was a Belle Vue Ace in '69 and '70.

 

It is possible to have more than one all-time great around at the same time.

 

And Ronnie Moore often gets a little forgotten in such discussions - for three or four years, until Fundin grew in stature, Moore was the man they all wanted to beat.

 

All the best

Rob

Edited September 14, 2015 by lucifer sam

[customhouseregular]

Now you're talking, chr! Stan Stevens, my hero. I was there that night as well.

I didn't see you

I'm sure at one point in the John Chaplin biography that Fundin is quoted that he saw Craven as his biggest rival, although I did read it around 9 years ago so the memory is a little hazy.

 

The contemporary World Rankings, plus more recent recollections, tend to put Fundin ahead. But that's not to say that Briggo wasn't a great rider in his own right, some of Briggo's accomplishments will take some beating. For example the six successive wins in the BLRC, which is outstanding when you think it didn't even happen at the height of his career, and that Mauger was a Belle Vue Ace in '69 and '70.

 

It is possible to have more than one all-time great around at the same time.

 

And Ronnie Moore often gets a little forgotten in such discussions - for three or four years, until Fundin grew in stature, Moore was the man they all wanted to beat.

 

All the best

Rob

I read it 7 years ago but I think your memory is ok.

[norbold]

Just want to add something about Fundin and who was best of the big five. Many years ago I had the privilege of a chat with an old time Norwich fan who had seen them all from the very beginning. The conversation got around to the big five and the old timer was of the firm opinion that Ove was always dominant over Briggs, Moore and Knutsson. But he reckoned the only one who could consistently bother him was Craven.

That's not to say that Craven was better, more that he beat 3 and drew with the other 1.

Can't remember the name of the old boy. Sorry.

 

 

That may have been Keith Farman, who, as I said above, compiled complete statistics on every race Fundin rode in this country and found that Craven was his greatest rival. If not Keith, it might have been Brian Tungate.

 

I'm sure at one point in the John Chaplin biography that Fundin is quoted that he saw Craven as his biggest rival, although I did read it around 9 years ago so the memory is a little hazy.

 

The contemporary World Rankings, plus more recent recollections, tend to put Fundin ahead. But that's not to say that Briggo wasn't a great rider in his own right, some of Briggo's accomplishments will take some beating. For example the six successive wins in the BLRC, which is outstanding when you think it didn't even happen at the height of his career, and that Mauger was a Belle Vue Ace in '69 and '70.

 

It is possible to have more than one all-time great around at the same time.

 

And Ronnie Moore often gets a little forgotten in such discussions - for three or four years, until Fundin grew in stature, Moore was the man they all wanted to beat.

 

All the best

Rob

I agree with all of that. I think Briggo had a longer career at the very top of speedway than any of the others. By the late 60s and early 70s he was the only one left really still able to mix it with the likes of Mauger and Olsen. I also agree that during the early-mid 50s, Ronnie Moore was the man to beat. But from the Mid 50s to the Mid 60s, Fundin was the master.

[stratton]

That may have been Keith Farman, who, as I said above, compiled complete statistics on every race Fundin rode in this country and found that Craven was his greatest rival. If not Keith, it might have been Brian Tungate.

 

I agree with all of that. I think Briggo had a longer career at the very top of speedway than any of the others. By the late 60s and early 70s he was the only one left really still able to mix it with the likes of Mauger and Olsen. I also agree that during the early-mid 50s, Ronnie Moore was the man to beat. But from the Mid 50s to the Mid 60s, Fundin was the master.

Knutsson aged 29 was approaching his peak when he retired so he could of won more titles.Moore,Mauger,Briggs,Olsen, Knutsson,Fundin,Plechanov,Craven were the real cream for me from 1955 until 1970.Others like the Boocock bros,Wilson,Michanek,Sjosten,Banger Jansson would get a mention as well and i am sure i have missed loads out that others rate to. Edited September 14, 2015 by sidney