Who Would Have Won The World Final Of The 1 Hit Wonders.

[Split]

@ Sidney. You shouldn't forget twice World Champion, Ronnie Moore who was the other member of the "Big Five" in those days. It might have been a Big Six if Plechanov had ridden for a British team.It was well known that nerves got the better of Knutson on the big occasion. I've always suspected that Björn was starting to get disenchanted with the sport when he won his world title. Maybe that's why he wasn't so nervous. He certainly could and almost certainly would have gone on to win more titles if he hadn't retired prematurely.

[customhouseregular]

Having seen Knutsson (many times being a West Ham regular), Plechanov, Fundin (winning his 5th. title), Briggs at his peak and Moore near the end of his career I can certainly state they were Masters of their craft, and gave me hours of pleasure watching them .

[Joe Beevers]

Someone stick up for Sam...too much biaism for speedway up to 1980!

 

Seriously though I am surprised that noone has named anyone after this period. Ermolenko has a record of 1st and 3 3rds and would have won two more titles had it not been for the two great danes. Nearly 20 years at the top and amazing league racing standard and great passer which is why he got my win.

 

Hamill deserves a mention for a good ten years and 1st, 2nd and 2nd to try and even the balance.

[customhouseregular]

Someone stick up for Sam...too much biaism for speedway up to 1980!

 

Seriously though I am surprised that noone has named anyone after this period. Ermolenko has a record of 1st and 3 3rds and would have won two more titles had it not been for the two great danes. Nearly 20 years at the top and amazing league racing standard and great passer which is why he got my win.

 

Hamill deserves a mention for a good ten years and 1st, 2nd and 2nd to try and even the balance.

Sorry Joe but after 1981 I only attended the major meetings until 1985, hence my bias. Of course Sam needs to be ranked highly and of riders who won only one World title he is right up there.

[stratton]

Someone stick up for Sam...too much biaism for speedway up to 1980!

Seriously though I am surprised that noone has named anyone after this period. Ermolenko has a record of 1st and 3 3rds and would have won two more titles had it not been for the two great danes. Nearly 20 years at the top and amazing league racing standard and great passer which is why he got my win.

Hamill deserves a mention for a good ten years and 1st, 2nd and 2nd to try and even the balance.

For me Joe in that class of line up i could not put Sam anywhere near the rostrum places ( only my humble opinion !!!) he had a great career though but he was not a favourite of mine.I can remember him coming over to Poole riding with Mike Lee he was erratic and that is a understatement. Edited September 12, 2015 by sidney

[Joe Beevers]

That's a fair point Sidney. I think a lot of people have to make the obvious perception of rating a great rider in the prime of when they watched speedway because their speed and skill level really opened their eyes up to the sport and make them take an interest. That is the power of great speedway.

 

Obviously Sam was starting out than and I have seen moments when I thought PC was hairy and it was a great moment when he took the crown in an era which Mauger and Olsen were the main protagonists. But like Michael Lee, I felt both needed the right track in a World Final to maintain the consistency of being a serious contender year in and year out.

 

It is really hard to judge all these riders as most of them in their prime deserved a title and we always wonder about the difference between a GP season and a World Final.

 

Just worth giving Jan O a mention as he may have won another one perhaps if he hadn't been seriously injured.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Joe Beevers

[stratton]

That's a fair point Sidney. I think a lot of people have to make the obvious perception of rating a great rider in the prime of when they watched speedway because their speed and skill level really opened their eyes up to the sport and make them take an interest. That is the power of great speedway.

Obviously Sam was starting out than and I have seen moments when I thought PC was hairy and it was a great moment when he took the crown in an era which Mauger and Olsen were the main protagonists. But like Michael Lee, I felt both needed the right track in a World Final to maintain the consistency of being a serious contender year in and year out.

It is really hard to judge all these riders as most of them in their prime deserved a title and we always wonder about the difference between a GP season and a World Final.

Just worth giving Jan O a mention as he may have won another one perhaps if he hadn't been seriously injured.

Great post Joe in a way it is impossible to compare era's your point about Lee is spot on Wembley for example never suited him unlike Gothenburg with its long straights.If the GP system was in place in yesteryear i recon it would of been a great spectacle.like today's series is.

[Split]

If the GP system was in place in yesteryear........

 

I think it's safe to say that Egon Müller and Jerzy Szczakiel would never have been world champions.

[norbold]

A Grand Prix series mid 50s - mid 60s would have been something else! Fundin, Briggs, Moore, Craven and latterly Knutson and Plechanov.....Mind you I can't help thinking Ove Fundin would have won every year!

[customhouseregular]

Given Ove's podium record in one-offs I'd say that was extremely likely Norbold.

 

I assume you have read it but the Ove Fundin biography by John Chaplin is a pretty good read.

[stratton]

A Grand Prix series mid 50s - mid 60s would have been something else! Fundin, Briggs, Moore, Craven and latterly Knutson and Plechanov.....Mind you I can't help thinking Ove Fundin would have won every year!

Fundin? maybe third? Moore i think i judge him from 1955 onwards a great rider though.I think Briggs would of beat Ove over 12 rounds would of been close Craven WELL could of put a dent into both of them and the great man still won two titles.

[norbold]

Given Ove's podium record in one-offs I'd say that was extremely likely Norbold.

 

 

 

 

I think Briggs would of beat Ove over 12 rounds would of been close Craven WELL could of put a dent into both of them and the great man still won two titles.

Well, not only going by their records, but also from personal observation from 1960 onwards, I think Ove Fundin would definitely have beaten Briggo in the four year period 1960-63 and I couldn't really see anyone matching him over 12 rounds. At a time when the Big 5 dominated, I think it is fair to say that, at least in the early 60s, Fundin dominated them. (And I say that as a New Cross supporter, but even though Briggo rode for New Cross, Fundin was clearly the better rider at the Frying Pan and I think beat Briggo every time they met, in matches, individual events and match races.)

[lucifer sam]

Someone stick up for Sam...too much biaism for speedway up to 1980!

 

Seriously though I am surprised that noone has named anyone after this period. Ermolenko has a record of 1st and 3 3rds and would have won two more titles had it not been for the two great danes. Nearly 20 years at the top and amazing league racing standard and great passer which is why he got my win.

 

Hamill deserves a mention for a good ten years and 1st, 2nd and 2nd to try and even the balance.

 

Per Jonsson and Jan O Pedersen are the strongest one-time champs from the 1990s... both were stopped from winning multiple titles by injury, whereas Sam did have injuries earlier in his career, but was lucky enough to still be riding in his mid-40s.

 

All the best

Rob

Fundin? maybe third? Moore i think i judge him from 1955 onwards a great rider though.I think Briggs would of beat Ove over 12 rounds would of been close Craven WELL could of put a dent into both of them and the great man still won two titles.

 

Briggo was the man in 1958, for sure. Otherwise, the most consistent rider from 1956 to 1963 was Fundin.

 

All the best

Rob

[norbold]

Incidentally, the late great speedway historian, Keith Farman, whose hero was Ove Fundin, did a statistical survey which covered every race that Ove Fundin had ridden in in GB - Test, League, Individual, Match Race, etc. He discovered that Fundin had a better record against every other rider, i.e. he beat every rider more times than any of them beat him. He also found that the rider who beat Fundin most times was Peter Craven.

[Joe Beevers]

Thanks lucifer sam or is it rob you prefer? Confused with the multiple name thing.

 

Yes, should have mentioned Per along with Jan O as another rider who could have won more.

[stratton]

Per Jonsson and Jan O Pedersen are the strongest one-time champs from the 1990s... both were stopped from winning multiple titles by injury, whereas Sam did have injuries earlier in his career, but was lucky enough to still be riding in his mid-40s.

 

All the best

Rob

 

Briggo was the man in 1958, for sure. Otherwise, the most consistent rider from 1956 to 1963 was Fundin.

 

All the best

Rob

Barry was the better rider for me,Craven if he had of lived would of been a threat he was anyway he had already WON two titles.

[norbold]

Barry was the better rider for me,Craven if he had of lived would of been a threat he was anyway he had already WON two titles.

In the period 1956 - 1964, Ove Fundin came top of the end of year Speedway Star & News rankings 7 times out of 9.The other two years he finished 2nd. Bary Briggs came 1st on two occasions, 2nd once, 3rd twice, 4th twice, 5th once and 6th once.

During that same period, Ove Fundin won the world Championship four times, was 2nd three times and 3rd twice. Barry Briggs won three times, was 2nd once, 3rd twice, 4th once, 5th once, 6th once

 

I can't help feeling the raw statistics and records show that Ove Fundin was a better and more consistent rider during that period than Brggo, an observation I would certainly back up with my own first hand knowledge of seeing them both ride from 1960 onwards.

[E I Addio]

. I've always suspected that Björn was starting to get disenchanted with the sport when he won his world title. Maybe that's why he wasn't so nervous. He certainly could and almost certainly would have gone on to win more titles if he hadn't retired prematurely.

Interesting point split.

 

Briggs, Moore and Fundin were several years older than Ivan Maugef and consequently were passing their peak in the late 60's when Mauger was reaching his, but Knutson was only a year older than Mauger so if he hadn't retired at such a relatively young age ( I think he was about 28 or 29 ) he could have gone on for several more years facing Fundin etc when they were starting to lose their edge and would very likely have been beating them more frequently than in previous years when they were at their best and he was still on the way up.

 

However if Knutson had raced on for a few more years here would have been facing Mauger, for the World Title. I rather think that had Knutson carried on he might well have won one or two more titles at the expense of Mauger or Olsen or both. Certainly I don't think Olsen was anywhere near the sort of rider Knutson was.

[stratton]

In the period 1956 - 1964, Ove Fundin came top of the end of year Speedway Star & News rankings 7 times out of 9.The other two years he finished 2nd. Bary Briggs came 1st on two occasions, 2nd once, 3rd twice, 4th twice, 5th once and 6th once.

During that same period, Ove Fundin won the world Championship four times, was 2nd three times and 3rd twice. Barry Briggs won three times, was 2nd once, 3rd twice, 4th once, 5th once, 6th once

 

I can't help feeling the raw statistics and records show that Ove Fundin was a better and more consistent rider during that period than Brggo, an observation I would certainly back up with my own first hand knowledge of seeing them both ride from 1960 onwards.

Your opinion Norbold i have so much respect for,and you are right Fundin his stats are amazing to be honest.Ove's record 15 final appearances (1954/69 missed 1966 banned.Barry's record 18 finals (1954/70 ( missed 71 Ole won Barry's last final 1972 both have incredible records.I do think Barry was the better of the two from 68 to 70 but both are legends, "Norbold how good was Briggs around the big West HAM in your opinion.? Also is it right ? did Craven have a great record against Fundin at Hyde Rd my uncle told me Ove road the line alot there and Craven's head to head record against Ove was very good indeed.My uncle Norbold is to blame for me being very bias when Briggo is concerned.

[E I Addio]

Your opinion Norbold i have so much respect for,and you are right Fundin his stats are amazing to be honest.Ove's record 15 final appearances (1954/69 missed 1966 banned.Barry's record 18 finals (1954/70 ( missed 71 Ole won Barry's last final 1972 both have incredible records.I do think Barry was the better of the two from 68 to 70 but both are legends, "Norbold how good was Briggs around the big West HAM in your opinion.? Also is it right ? did Craven have a great record against Fundin at Hyde Rd my uncle told me Ove road the line alot there and Craven's head to head record against Ove was very good indeed.My uncle Norbold is to blame for me being very bias when Briggo is concerned.

 

Sid, like you I am a massive fan of Briggo. I would say Barry at his very best was better but his problem I think was he was not as consistent as Fundin. I remembe Eric Linden , I think it was writing in Speedway Star that Briggo only his best form as the World Final approached. I only saw Fundin when he was well past his best but I think we would have to say they were both truly great riders but different.

 

Briggo at West Ham was virtually unbeatable I saw him win the last of his British Championships there and I don't think I have ever seen another meeting where one rider was so dominant , especially when considering the quality of the field. I, e, Mauger, Moore, Boocock , Wilson, etc,

 

If anyone gets the chance they should try to see a film clip of Briggo's World Title win in Sweden in 1964. It was pouring with rain all night, more sawdust on the track than shale, everyone was skating all over the place but Briggo blasted roundf as if the track was perfect. At his best he was amazing.