Rolling, Moving And Jumping At The Start

[SCB]

Can someone find me the rule that says rider cannot roll, move, jump, anticipate at the start please.......

[Alan_Jones]

Can someone find me the rule that says rider cannot roll, move, jump, anticipate at the start please.......

 

It's in the same section as the one about first bend bunching.

[SCB]

 

It's in the same section as the one about first bend bunching.

So those slagging off Havvy for defending James Sarjeant are wrong then and Havvy is right to defend his rider. Sarjeant is breaking no rules by rolling and jumping.

[Shale Searcher]

Doesn't it say riders must be stationery under the green light?

[SCB]

Doesn't it say riders must be stationery under the green light?

No. It says stationary UNTIL the green light.

 

 

 

15.3.2 The Start Marshal, will bring Riders to the Tapes, in order determined by their gate position, ie. a, b, c then d), to the correct position ensuring all parts of the motorcycle and Rider’s limbs are within the marked Grid (nb. lines are neutral and do not form part of the Grid) and with the

front wheel being within 75mm of the tapes.

15.3.2.1 Once satisfied all Riders are correctly positioned, their motorcycles stationary and the rear wheel in contact with the track surface, s/he shall signal to the Referee and walk away.

15.3.3 The Referee will illuminate the Green Start Light (after which no time allowance or outside assistance can be given) and after a pause of not less than 1½ seconds (sufficient to enable the Riders to spin their engines and focus their attention), shall release the Tapes.

[tyretrax]

The ref's just want to be the star of the show. Get the rule back to "Touch the tapes and you're out." Whether it's your wheel or helmet YOU'RE OUT.

[baba]

The refs only show consistency when they get things wrong....consistently wrong imo

[waiheke1]

Can someone find me the rule that says rider cannot roll, move, jump, anticipate at the start please.......

 

i can't actually find any rule about an "unsatisfactory start" at all. Basically nothing that indicates the ref should be able to restart a race without excluding someone as primary cause of the stoppage.

And unless a rider touches the tapes (or "wrongly prevents raising" of them) then nothing to say they should be excluded so long as they complied with the rule sup to the greenlight going on.

[Fromafar]

I think as long as they are stationary when green light goes on let the race go.but if any one touches tapes and gets excluded DONT allow a reserve or 15 mtr handicap that will deter them from "flyers" and Team Managers supporting their actions Imo

[SCB]

I think as long as they are stationary when green light goes on let the race go.but if any one touches tapes and gets excluded DONT allow a reserve or 15 mtr handicap that will deter them from "flyers" and Team Managers supporting their actions Imo

The thing is, the rule is that they only have to be stationary until the green light. It's just referees are making it up.

[Fromafar]

The thing is, the rule is that they only have to be stationary until the green light. It's just referees are making it up.

Agree,if they anticipate the Ref pressing the button fair enough.You see just as many fair starts as rollers brought back IMO .Just holds up the meeting.

[Vince]

I'd rather see riders made to sit still and then only penalised if they touch the tapes. Generally starts are much more even now than they were in the days when rolling was allowed. That's what I want to see, 4 riders coming out of the start at the same time.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Vince

[Halifaxtiger]

No. It says stationary UNTIL the green light.

 

 

I can't see where it says 'until' - although I wouldn't deny it could be better worded.

 

What it says is that the starting marshal puts the riders in position, makes sure they are still and that their back wheels are on the ground then signals to the referee and walks away. The referee then illuminates the green light and after a pause lets the tapes go.

 

If it is the case that the two parts - ie before and after the green light comes on - are unconnected, I'd question what the point of having a starting marshal and rule 15.3.2.1 is.

 

While I would never deny that this rule is applied inconsistently - because in my experience it most certainly is - my view is that all riders sit still at the tapes and then the starts are fair rather than a lottery about who times their roll right.

[tyretrax]

As I have said before, a rider anticpates the start the ref stops the race----a rider is sleeping and misses the gate the race continues. I'm quite sure the rider who was sleeping wasn't satisfied with the start.

Edited September 3, 2015 by tyretrax

[teddy2706]

Some riders are notorious for anticipating starts, but that does not mean they are cheating!

Referee's do not like to be made fools of, but if the rider is stationary after the marshall has walked, but dumps the clutch and gets a flyer under the rising tape, he isn't breaking the rules.

HT and I saw Margaret Vardy pull 'em back because Rob Branford had done exactly that at Buxton, she warned him (but he hadn't broken the rules) then he did exactly the same again unpenalised.

Inconsistent, just as HT says.

It is a sticky problem to address, that's for sure, but I sneakily admire Sarj and Rob Branford for flying out so quickly, everyone is perfectly at liberty to do the same.

[E I Addio]

I can't see where it says 'until' - although I wouldn't deny it could be better worded.

 

What it says is that the starting marshal puts the riders in position, makes sure they are still and that their back wheels are on the ground then signals to the referee and walks away. The referee then illuminates the green light and after a pause lets the tapes go.

 

If it is the case that the two parts - ie before and after the green light comes on - are unconnected, I'd question what the point of having a starting marshal and rule 15.3.2.1 is.

 

While I would never deny that this rule is applied inconsistently - because in my experience it most certainly is - my view is that all riders sit still at the tapes and then the starts are fair rather than a lottery about who times their roll right.

 

I agree. The rule also says that the start Marshall has to ensure that the machines are correctly poisitioned. If the rider then moves it must follow that the bike is incorrectly positioned.

 

One also has to ask what is the object of the rule. The object is to get the riders starting as fairly and equally as possible so that the public get to see a proper race which is not so likely to happen if someone is allowed to get a flyer which on modern machinery makes him very difficult to catch.

Edited September 3, 2015 by E I Addio

[SCB]

the rule says the start marshal has to line them up etc. NOT the rider has to line up..... So the rule doesn't apply to the rider. He is free to move as much as he likes.

[PHILIPRISING]

Can someone find me the rule that says rider cannot roll, move, jump, anticipate at the start please.......

WHATEVER the rulebook may or may not say, the accepted practice is that a rider shall remain stationary until the tapes go up but there is obviously a very fine line between those who do move while not touching the tapes and those who just react the quickest.

[Ghostwalker]

WHATEVER the rulebook may or may not say, the accepted practice is that a rider shall remain stationary until the tapes go up but there is obviously a very fine line between

those who do move while not touching the tapes and those who just react the quickest.

 

if the rest of the sports world have technology to detect those who react to quickly, why can't speedway also have that?

The mean human response time for visual stimuli is about 290milliseconds .

Imo develop a system with transponders which will detect if anyone is moving when the green light is on and if any rider is reacting too quickly.

 

I think a transponder system is the only way to truly separate good starts from chance starts and rolling starts. Until such system is in place

there will be rolling starts and chance starts that will be unnoticed and there will be good starts that will be called back.

 

Imo stricter marshalling would also reduce the likeliness of rolling starts succeeding. If the riders are forced (exclude anyone not obeying)

to have front wheel 2 cm from the tapes then it will be harder to roll since if they do they will do a T/T.

 

Also when it comes to 2min exclusions/gardening. If the referees actually would start to enforce 2min violations then the riders would adjust and

actually making sure that they are ready when the 2 min expires = problem solved. 2 min is 120 seconds not 121 or 123 seconds and neither is it 118 seconds.

They can do as much gardening as they like as long as they are ready with the front wheel at the tapes when those 120 seconds are up.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Ghostwalker

[SCB]

 

if the rest of the sports world have technology to detect those who react to quickly, why can't speedway also have that?

The mean human response time for visual stimuli is about 290milliseconds .

Imo develop a system with transponders which will detect if anyone is moving when the green light is on and if any rider is reacting too quickly.

 

I think a transponder system is the only way to truly separate good starts from chance starts and rolling starts. Until such system is in place

there will be rolling starts and chance starts that will be unnoticed and there will be good starts that will be called back.

 

Imo stricter marshalling would also reduce the likeliness of rolling starts succeeding. If the riders are forced (exclude anyone not obeying)

to have front wheel 2 cm from the tapes then it will be harder to roll since if they do they will do a T/T.

 

Also when it comes to 2min exclusions/gardening. If the referees actually would start to enforce 2min violations then the riders would adjust and

actually making sure that they are ready when the 2 min expires = problem solved. 2 min is 120 seconds not 121 or 123 seconds and neither is it 118 seconds.

They can do as much gardening as they like as long as they are ready with the front wheel at the tapes when those 120 seconds are up.

Exactly. It amazes me that a man is able to judge is another man has judged correctly. Clearly with the referee having just great observation/reaction skills they should all be out there on a bike as they'd always be first into the corner!