Falubaz Zielona Gora Speedway

[Humphrey Appleby]

IMG do pay a decent sum for the rights to host the events they have. Not sure what the FIM do with the money. I think some of it goes to prize funds for the meetings but I don't think that would cover it all.

The fact remains that a couple of million quid or so profit a year goes out of the sport, regardless of who it's going to. Speedway is fairly alone amongst sports in that revenue from its premier event doesn't go back into speedway.

 

Think both Gorzów and Zielona Gora were up until the end of WW2 a part of Germany,so maybe that tradition comes from the German sporting clubs.Wroclaw was also up til the end of the war part of Germany and the German national side even played a few home games in the city

I think Silesia was fairly comprehensively ethnically cleansed by the Poles after WW2, so not sure what traditions would have been left. I doubt anyone had much sympathy for the Germans given the events of WW2, and especially the high support for the Nazis in that part of Germany, but the civil proscriptions and forced deportations are a rather forgotten episode of the WW2 aftermath.

 

I'd have thought the multi-sport aspects of Polish speedway clubs is more linked to their communist origins.

It's why Wroclaw has an Olympic Stadium since it played a supporting role in the 1936 Berlin Olympics.

I believe Wroclaw Olympic Stadium predates the 1936 Olympics by several years and was never actually used during those Games. As such the name is a misnomer.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[Bavarian]

Fascinating history.

 

That stadium in Wroclaw (Breslau) was really never used as an Olympic venue. Built as the "Schlesierkampfbahn" (Silesian Arena) in the then German (Silesian) town of Breslau, between 1926 and 1928 by a then famous Silesian architect Richard Konwiarz,

 

It was re-named "Olympiastadion" (Olympic Stadium) after 1932, when this building had won the architect Herr Konwiarz an Olympic bronze medal for Architecture in the 1932 Los Angeles Olympic Games. Yes, they had medals for non-sporting (cultural) events at the Olympic Games in those days!

 

The Stadium was further up-graded to host a national "Deutsches Turn- und Sportfest" in 1938, and was then re-named as the "Herman-Göring-Stadium".

 

Between 1930 and 1941, the German national foootball team played a few international home games at this Stadium in Breslau, including a 1-0 win over Poland in 1935, and a famous 8-0 win over Denmark in 1937. The Stadium was never used as a home ground for a Club Football team, though, neither in the German pre-war years, nor in Poland afterwards.

 

Under Polish occupation in 1945 the name of the town was changed from Breslau to Wroclaw, and the now again re-named "Stadion Olympijskij we Wroclawiu" became the home ground of the WTS Wroclaw speedway Club.

 

The stadium is currently getting up-graded again to host the 2017 World Games. This is the reason why WTS Sparta Wroclaw must race their Estraliga play-off semi-final against Unia Tarnow next week away from home on neutral ground at Czestochowa.

[iris123]

I'd have thought the multi-sport aspects of Polish speedway clubs is more linked to their communist origins.

 

 

Maybe,maybe not.A couple of the local sports clubs near me for example are "Sportverein Eidelstedt von 1880" and TSV Stellingen von 1888" so maybe "Klub Sportowy Polonia" which was formed in Bydgoszcz in 1920(the year the Red Army was repulsed) and predates communism and went on to include a speedway team,might have been formed along german sporting club lines........ In fact a quick search of a few clubs(not only speedway)such as Lech Poznan and they all seem to have been formed in the early 20s,after the Polish independence and before WW2

 

The oldest still existing Sportverein in Germany from 1814

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSV_1814_Friedland

Edited September 1, 2015 by iris123

[Trees]

It would be good if clubs could link with the community. providing some sort of social service might not just be altruistic. Those clubs with training facilities could work with local councils to provide courses to help keep youngsters off the streets, off drugs or out of gangs. They might get some riders out of it at best and hopefully some fans, too. I wonder whether, on a national level, the sport could develop some teaching materials for local schools. Maths would be an obvious area. Two times tables (the tactical rule ), statistics, average speeds, distances travelled by riders etc. I know nothing about Primary School National Curriculum, but if it could be done, and linked to a visit to a meeting, there would be obvious benefits.

Exactly what Kings Lynn Speedway did for a few years!

The fact remains that a couple of million quid or so profit a year goes out of the sport, regardless of who it's going to. Speedway is fairly alone amongst sports in that revenue from its premier event doesn't go back into speedway.I think Silesia was fairly comprehensively ethnically cleansed by the Poles after WW2, so not sure what traditions would have been left. I doubt anyone had much sympathy for the Germans given the events of WW2, and especially the high support for the Nazis in that part of Germany, but the civil proscriptions and forced deportations are a rather forgotten episode of the WW2 aftermath.I'd have thought the multi-sport aspects of Polish speedway clubs is more linked to their communist origins.I believe Wroclaw Olympic Stadium predates the 1936 Olympics by several years and was never actually used during those Games. As such the name is a misnomer.

I always think that Polish Speedway's set up is to do with their communism history. Certainly their pride is ....

[RobMcCaffery]

Fascinating history.

 

That stadium in Wroclaw (Breslau) was really never used as an Olympic venue. Built as the "Schlesierkampfbahn" (Silesian Arena) in the then German (Silesian) town of Breslau, between 1926 and 1928 by a then famous Silesian architect Richard Konwiarz,

 

It was re-named "Olympiastadion" (Olympic Stadium) after 1932, when this building had won the architect Herr Konwiarz an Olympic bronze medal for Architecture in the 1932 Los Angeles Olympic Games. Yes, they had medals for non-sporting (cultural) events at the Olympic Games in those days!

 

 

Many thanks. Happy to be corrected. All information gratefully received ;-)

[iris123]

 

I always think that Polish Speedway's set up is to do with their communism history. Certainly their pride is ....

Interesting theory.How do you come to this conclusion?I wonder why Polish air crews were so passionate and patriotic during WW2?I wonder why Polish people are amongst the most religious in Europe?Surely yo can't be suggesting they became so patriotic during the communist period?And why are their near neighbours the Danes so patriotic then,without having lived under communism?

[Chadster]

I worked with a few Poles and they hated the Russians with a passion. I suspect their pride is more to do with their resistance to communism through things like Solidarity and through their support for the Catholic church.

[iris123]

Like I mentioned before,i do think the Poles were very proud people before the Soviet occupation.They seemed extremely proud and brave during WW2.

 

There was for a brief period after the war a town in Germany that was cleared of its inhabitants and handed over to the Poles.It was called Haren,then the Poles named it Lwow and then under pressure from the Russians named it Maczkow from 1945-1948.What does seem important is that most of the Polish soldiers seemed to end up in the UK rather than go back to an occupied homeland

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haren,_Germany

 

On a speedway note,i think I am right in saying that former speedway rider Kevin Teager now lives in Haren

[RobMcCaffery]

Polish pride goes back well before they were stifled by the Soviet Union post-war. I suspect it has more to do with the country being shifted around the map of Europe by the Russians, Austro-Hungarians, Prussians and later Germany, including many decades where the country wasn't even on the map.

 

It's been messed-about more than probably any other major European nation. The carving-up by the Germans in Russians in 1939 was sadly far from the first time they'd been abused. It's a tragic story and the fight to end Communism was nothing compared to trying to re-create the country a century before.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Interesting theory.How do you come to this conclusion?I wonder why Polish air crews were so passionate and patriotic during WW2?I wonder why Polish people are amongst the most religious in Europe?Surely yo can't be suggesting they became so patriotic during the communist period?And why are their near neighbours the Danes so patriotic then,without having lived under communism?

Unlike the East Germans, I think the Poles particularly disliked communism. However, they had it for nearly 50 years and it undoubtedly influenced the social fabric and institutional structures of the countries where it existed - extensively to this day in some countries although probably less so in Poland. Not everything about communism was bad though, and probably its support for education and sports was one of its better legacies.

 

Multisports clubs are not particularly unique across Europe, and there's probably a substantial British influence with respect to anything to do with the formation of the older clubs, even though multisports clubs are fairly uncommon in the UK nowadays.

What does seem important is that most of the Polish soldiers seemed to end up in the UK rather than go back to an occupied homeland

Because they'd likely have been murdered or sent to a gulag. Eastern Europeans who fought for the Allies were viewed with particular suspicion by the communist authorities, and Stalin didn't wanted any concerted opposition in his buffer states.

 

Of course, it's now forgotten that Poland also had an irredentist policy to rebuild the claimed former homelands of the Poles (which were quite extensive in the era of Polish Commonwealth), which didn't endear itself to its neighbours.

[Trees]

I bow down to everyone's historical knowledge, I admit to saying what I did not through my knowledge of history but more through what I imagine life was like under as a communist country compared to this country now, I'll ask next time instead of talk out of hand ....

[Lord Skid]

Another lot who have a great Homeland, so why come over here, about time we looked after our own first, and let the rest look after their own.

[RobMcCaffery]

I bow down to everyone's historical knowledge, I admit to saying what I did not through my knowledge of history but more through what I imagine life was like under as a communist country compared to this country now, I'll ask next time instead of talk out of hand ....

Don't worry Trees, it was a natural thing to assume if you didn't know the back story. I was just trying to help to explain.

[iris123]

Unlike the East Germans, I think the Poles particularly disliked communism. However, they had it for nearly 50 years and it undoubtedly influenced the social fabric and institutional structures of the countries where it existed

If you take it that communism "influenced the social fabric...." then surely you should agree that German occupation or annexation of part of what is now Poland also had a similar influence.

 

Here is a pretty good list of pre WW2 speedway meetings in Poland.Sure you will notice a lot of Germanic surnames and even german riders.Alfred Rumrich who rode briefly for Wimbledon for instance and the brothers(I guess) Geyer.And just look at the names of some of the Bydgoszcz clubs riders.........Helmut Zimmerman,Herbert Beitsch and Albrecht von Alvensleben,all riding for Bydgoszcz in 1930......

 

http://rlach.republika.pl/pl_1932.htm

[The White Knight]

Unlike the East Germans, I think the Poles particularly disliked communism. However, they had it for nearly 50 years and it undoubtedly influenced the social fabric and institutional structures of the countries where it existed - extensively to this day in some countries although probably less so in Poland. Not everything about communism was bad though, and probably its support for education and sports was one of its better legacies.

 

Multisports clubs are not particularly unique across Europe, and there's probably a substantial British influence with respect to anything to do with the formation of the older clubs, even though multisports clubs are fairly uncommon in the UK nowadays.

 

Because they'd likely have been murdered or sent to a gulag. Eastern Europeans who fought for the Allies were viewed with particular suspicion by the communist authorities, and Stalin didn't wanted any concerted opposition in his buffer states.

 

Of course, it's now forgotten that Poland also had an irredentist policy to rebuild the claimed former homelands of the Poles (which were quite extensive in the era of Polish Commonwealth), which didn't endear itself to its neighbours.

I don't blame them. I don't like Dentists either. :D

[RobMcCaffery]

Another lot who have a great Homeland, so why come over here, about time we looked after our own first, and let the rest look after their own.

Let's throw all the Brits out from Spain and Portugal then. ;-)

 

Ever thought the Poles who have travelled here might actually be looking after themselves?

 

Best if you stick to speedway, I'd suggest.

Edited September 3, 2015 by rmc

[Humphrey Appleby]

If you take it that communism "influenced the social fabric...." then surely you should agree that German occupation or annexation of part of what is now Poland also had a similar influence.

The population of Poland hasn't much changed since communist times, whereas most of the Germans were hurriedly deported from Silesia and East Prussia in the post-WW2 period and replaced by Poles from the parts of Poland that were absorbed by the Soviet Union (in what's now Ukraine and Lithuania). So I do wonder how much Germanic influence would have remained.

[iris123]

The population of Poland hasn't much changed since communist times, whereas most of the Germans were hurriedly deported from Silesia and East Prussia in the post-WW2 period and replaced by Poles from the parts of Poland that were absorbed by the Soviet Union (in what's now Ukraine and Lithuania). So I do wonder how much Germanic influence would have remained.

I thought you might.........

 

A couple of speedway riders with german surnames,suggest as would generally happen,that not all people with german heritage left Poland

 

Glücklich + Hampel for instance

Edited September 4, 2015 by iris123

[Odds On]

Let's throw all the Brits out from Spain and Portugal then. ;-)

 

Ever thought the Poles who have travelled here might actually be looking after themselves?

 

Best if you stick to speedway, I'd suggest.

 

Ever tried getting a hospital appointment or been unfortunate enough to be in A & E?....our health service cant cope with the numbers already in this Country let alone allowing even more in....the infra structures of this Country are just about at crisis point.

Which ever way you look at it, paying parents an allowance so they can afford a child minder is plain wrong, if you cant afford children then don't have them.

Also when a family earn more on benefits for doing jack shyte than a family who work for a living then the "system" that now plaques the UK is also wrong.

The vast majority of refugees/immigrants who want to come to the UK are not coming to this Country to work they are coming because they now that it is an easy touch.

[Lord Skid]

Why kick the Brit's out of Spain and Portugal, we spend our money in their Countries, unlike the Poles who come over here, work, live on cabbage and take their money back to Poland, without putting it back into our economy.

Totally agree Odds On, let's get our own house in order, before we become a World Charity, thank God for that piece of water between us and Europe