lucifer sam Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Yes, Wilkinson scored a maximum in the final, but lost out as bonus points were carried through from the previous round. According to John Chaplin it was even more controversial than that. He says that Eric Langton told him that he had an agreement with Van Praag that whoever reached the first bend first would be allowed to go on and win and the other wouldn't overtake. As you say, Van Praag broke this agreement by passing Langton. I'm not sure I believe this. Why would you make an agreement like that? I think it's a bit of sour grapes from Langton myself. Though John believes it to be true. Anyway, good story and adds to that controversial first World Final. Norbold, I thought it was whoever who was in front after the first lap, rather than the first bend? I can see the reason for such an agreement - to share the money, so that they don't kill each other squabbling over it. Although I think the prize of becoming World Champion is bigger than the cash prize. In any case, it certainly seems Langton thought was he duped by Van Praag. It doesn't take away from the fact that Van Praag was a true quality rider. All the best Rob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Norbold, I thought it was whoever who was in front after the first lap, rather than the first bend? Maybe, yes, I was going from memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 Interesting comment Sidney the robin. I saw Eric Langton in the 1946 and 1947 seasons and he was then very much among the top riders of that era. And his then Belle Vue team mate Jack Parker also rated him highly - as the item in the Link shows. Despite claims made on behalf of Tom Farndon, I would consider Langton as the better of the two riders. And that would appear to be the opinion also put forward by Simon Lewis in the accompany Link. Perhaps - if they are carried - through SPEEDWAY RESEARCHER for Belle Vue and Crystal Palace match details for the early 1930s might have a bearing on how Langton matched against Farndon? Here is the Eric Langton story written by Simon Lewis: http://www.motorsport-fanatic.co.uk/speedway-langton.htm For easier reading, this is an extract from the Simon Lewis article re Eric Langton about the happenings at the 1936 World Championship Final: "In the same year the first 'official' World Championship was inaugurated at Wembley . It was a curious affair in hindsight, riders carried into the meeting a score of bonus points ammased in the qualifying rounds. It was possible that the rider who scored best of the night would still not be world champion because of his qualifying record - and such was the case, Bluey Wilkinson scored a maximum but Eric Langton had more bonus points as did the tough Aussie Lionel Van Praag . "The pair lined up for a match race but Eric broke the tapes. Van Praag declared he would not be champion by default and demanded a re-run.Langton gated ahead and led untill the final bend when leaving the smallest of gaps he was unable to hold the dashing Australian back and Lionel won by inches. Langton's near-miss on the first ever world final assumed a degree of controversy in later years. "The deciding match race with 'Praagy' was 'fixed' between the pair, according to sources close to the action. It was alledged that Eric and Lionel agreed that whoever got to the first corner in front would go on to win and they would split the prize money between them. It almost worked out, Langton was ahead untill the final corner when he left a small gap which Van Praag couldn't resist going for. "The first ever world final was won by about a wheel width and the Australian took the title.Langton looked particularly sour post race." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 For easier reading, this is an extract from the Simon Lewis article re Eric Langton about the happenings at the 1936 World Championship Final: "In the same year the first 'official' World Championship was inaugurated at Wembley . It was a curious affair in hindsight, riders carried into the meeting a score of bonus points ammased in the qualifying rounds. It was possible that the rider who scored best of the night would still not be world champion because of his qualifying record - and such was the case, Bluey Wilkinson scored a maximum but Eric Langton had more bonus points as did the tough Aussie Lionel Van Praag . "The pair lined up for a match race but Eric broke the tapes. Van Praag declared he would not be champion by default and demanded a re-run.Langton gated ahead and led untill the final bend when leaving the smallest of gaps he was unable to hold the dashing Australian back and Lionel won by inches. Langton's near-miss on the first ever world final assumed a degree of controversy in later years. "The deciding match race with 'Praagy' was 'fixed' between the pair, according to sources close to the action. It was alledged that Eric and Lionel agreed that whoever got to the first corner in front would go on to win and they would split the prize money between them. It almost worked out, Langton was ahead untill the final corner when he left a small gap which Van Praag couldn't resist going for. "The first ever world final was won by about a wheel width and the Australian took the title.Langton looked particularly sour post race." I have seen a picture of Langton after the run/off and he did not look happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) Jack Parker - a contender for the greatest ever rider. This is how veteran writer Simon Lewis saw his claim: http://www.motorsport-fanatic.co.uk/speedway-parker.htm For easier reading, this is an extract from the Lewis' feature in regard to Jack Parker's recognition: "Parker, born in Birmingham in 1907, certainly didn't look like a professional sportsman, the craggy ,pipe smoking, often stern face, brylcream-waved hair and (in later years) rimless glasses made him look more like a business man or bank manager than someone going wheel to wheel, elbow to elbow with people half his age on a motorcycle with no brakes! "He was no glamour boy in the fashion of Ronnie Moore or Peter Craven but he gathered legions of fans and throughout the 30s and 40s could lay claim to being England's top rider without any doubt. And he knew it. "He knew how good he was and didn't care to let false modesty cloud his opinion. When once asked in an interview who he considered the greatest rider of all time was, he nominated himself. And meant it." "And the lack of a world title irked him, much as motor racing's Stirling Moss admitted his own frustration at the same situation some years later. But as prodigious speedway reporter Basil Storey once wrote of Jack "the man had no equal". Edited December 14, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 14, 2016 Report Share Posted December 14, 2016 (edited) More by Simon Lewis: here is the opinion of Eric Langton on Jack Parker's speedway abilities. Lewis writes: "Langton said that to him, Jack Parker was the best speedway rider ever, the difference he said, was that Parker was very good at outsyching the opposition and would just push himself that little bit more in a crucial race. "Eric himself would always ride just within his known limit irrespective, assuming that every race was the same as every other and it was better to play sightly safe and assume the other chap would soon over reach himself and come a cropper.. It was a sound policy ,but only as long as you had the skill of a Langton!" Edited December 14, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Norbold, I thought it was whoever who was in front after the first lap, rather than the first bend? I can see the reason for such an agreement - to share the money, so that they don't kill each other squabbling over it. Although I think the prize of becoming World Champion is bigger than the cash prize. In any case, it certainly seems Langton thought was he duped by Van Praag. It doesn't take away from the fact that Van Praag was a true quality rider. All the best Rob All seems strange if Langton should have been excluded and then was let back into the race-off by LVP demanding such.They would have shared the money and LVP would have been world champ.By demanding Langton was let into the race-off LVP was really showing it was more than just the money,but the honour of being WC and he didn't want it handed to him on a plate.Anyway if Langton was honourable he would have let LVP win.Maybe that is why he didn't keep his side of the "deal" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 All seems strange if Langton should have been excluded and then was let back into the race-off by LVP demanding such.They would have shared the money and LVP would have been world champ.By demanding Langton was let into the race-off LVP was really showing it was more than just the money,but the honour of being WC and he didn't want it handed to him on a plate.Anyway if Langton was honourable he would have let LVP win.Maybe that is why he didn't keep his side of the "deal" There's an excellent article by John Chaplin in the latest "Classic Speedway' magazine in which it states that Bluey Wilkinson was aware of the 'wheeling and dealing' between the two main protagonists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 There's an excellent article by John Chaplin in the latest "Classic Speedway' magazine in which it states that Bluey Wilkinson was aware of the 'wheeling and dealing' between the two main protagonists! If you read what happened back then(and not only then but up to the 80s at least) then there was a lot of "Wheeling and dealing" going on..Olle Nygren i think is one that has talked about it.If you listen to what Ronnie Moore said about some of the old riders like Jack Parker and Tommy Price then it was like a little mafia that tried to keep newcomers out of taking their share of the pie away from them,even with threats and dirty riding, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted December 17, 2016 Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) If you read what happened back then(and not only then but up to the 80s at least) then there was a lot of "Wheeling and dealing" going on..Olle Nygren i think is one that has talked about it.If you listen to what Ronnie Moore said about some of the old riders like Jack Parker and Tommy Price then it was like a little mafia that tried to keep newcomers out of taking their share of the pie away from them,even with threats and dirty riding, I guess it's been going on since speedway first appeared on the scene and still today. Simmo talked about it in his book at length which is why I never took the Sunday People 'allergations' as seriously as some people did at the time. Edited December 17, 2016 by steve roberts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I would agree. Different eras had their greats and it's difficult, if nigh impossible to compare like with like. However personally I wouldn't go beyond Ivan Mauger...not just based on his world championship achievements but on his team ethic and his willingness to get the best out of his team mates and having a say in the make-up of all the teams that he rode for (which must have put many people's noses out). One reason I put him head and shoulders above Tony Rickardsson who I always thought was much more of an individualist. In fact I would put Tony quite a bit down on my all-time greats. Greatness of riders should not just be based on the number of world championships won but their overall impact at all levels of the game. If you are going to throw all of a riders qualities into the mix, not just titles won then Ronnie Moore must be near or at the top of the list.. I don't know too much about Ronnie as a person and only saw him at the back end of career ( when he was well past his best but still better than most ever get) but from all I have read and from Wimbledon fans I have spoken to who saw him at his peak he seems to have really been the complete package in all departments, If I could go back in time and see just one rider at his best I think it would have to be "Mirac". On the other hand ( and Norbold will hate me for saying this) if you are going to take into account qualities as a team man then Fundin would drop from possibly top of the list to, shall we say, a rather more lowly position. A very unique man and an exceptional Speedwáy rider with an unquenchable will to win but not one to bother about the niceties of team riding by all accounts ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 If you are going to throw all of a riders qualities into the mix, not just titles won then Ronnie Moore must be near or at the top of the list.. I don't know too much about Ronnie as a person and only saw him at the back end of career ( when he was well past his best but still better than most ever get) but from all I have read and from Wimbledon fans I have spoken to who saw him at his peak he seems to have really been the complete package in all departments, If I could go back in time and see just one rider at his best I think it would have to be "Mirac". On the other hand ( and Norbold will hate me for saying this) if you are going to take into account qualities as a team man then Fundin would drop from possibly top of the list to, shall we say, a rather more lowly position. A very unique man and an exceptional Speedwáy rider with an unquenchable will to win but not one to bother about the niceties of team riding by all accounts ! When Ove Fundin rode for Wembley and partnered Dave Jessup the latter was paid a bonus to keep out of his way and not win the race Ove Fundin was never a team rider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) If you are going to throw all of a riders qualities into the mix, not just titles won then Ronnie Moore must be near or at the top of the list.. I don't know too much about Ronnie as a person and only saw him at the back end of career ( when he was well past his best but still better than most ever get) but from all I have read and from Wimbledon fans I have spoken to who saw him at his peak he seems to have really been the complete package in all departments, If I could go back in time and see just one rider at his best I think it would have to be "Mirac". On the other hand ( and Norbold will hate me for saying this) if you are going to take into account qualities as a team man then Fundin would drop from possibly top of the list to, shall we say, a rather more lowly position. A very unique man and an exceptional Speedwáy rider with an unquenchable will to win but not one to bother about the niceties of team riding by all accounts ! I, too, only saw Ronnie ride during his last season in Britain. However I knew someone who watched him ride regularly at Plough Lane and he told me that there was no better exponent in team riding home his partner. He had a great ability in controlling the pace of a race and could slow down opponents (by fair means) so as to enable his partner an opportunity to pass and so achieving the best result for the team. Ivan, also, had a great ability to team ride (I saw him ride often) as did Hans Nielsen who could dictate a race from the inside. One reason I didn't particularly rate Tony Rickardsson who was not the best of team riders...a quality that I admire in riders who were able to demonstrate what is now becoming a fast fading art. Edited December 20, 2016 by steve roberts 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I, too, only saw Ronnie ride during his last season in Britain. However I knew someone who watched him ride regularly at Plough Lane and he told me that there was no better exponent in team riding home his partner. He had a great ability in controlling the pace of a race and could slow down opponents (by fair means) so as to enable his partner an opportunity to pass and so achieving the best result for the team. Ivan, also, had a great ability to team ride (I saw him ride often) as did Hans Nielsen who could dictate a race from the inside. One reason I don't particularly rate Tony Rickardsson who was not the best of team riders...a quality that I admire in riders who were able to demonstrate what is now becoming a fast fading art. I couldn't agree more. :sad: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) I couldn't agree more. :sad: ...which could be the beginning of a whole new thread! The best Team Rider? Edited December 20, 2016 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) ...which could be the beginning of a whole new thread! The best Team Rider? Then go to it with such a thread! Look forward to seeing it emerge on the BSF. Edited December 20, 2016 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) On the other hand ( and Norbold will hate me for saying this) if you are going to take into account qualities as a team man then Fundin would drop from possibly top of the list to, shall we say, a rather more lowly position. A very unique man and an exceptional Speedwáy rider with an unquenchable will to win but not one to bother about the niceties of team riding by all accounts ! It's absolutely true, E I. No complaint from me! Barry Briggs was another. When I wrote my booklet, "Two Wimbledon Legends", about Ronnie Moore and Barry Briggs for Wimbledon, I asked some former riders their views on Moore and Briggo. Alf Hagon said, "I was Ronnie Moore's partner. He was the best rider I ever partnered...He could ride full throttle, half throttle, change directions, tootle round slowly, ride the inside line, ride the outside line. He would even shout instructions at me as we were going round. Barry, on the other hand, had to go flat out. It was the only way he could ride. He wasn't exactly out of control, but he wasn't always in control either. If he came up on the inside of you and got some grip he was liable to bash into you." Bob Andrews said: "When I first rode with him [Ronnie Moore] he knew I could gate. He said, 'Get to the first bend first, and leave a gap of about a foot from the line, if I need to I will come through.' We got a 5-1. I then had a season riding with Barry - oh my God! I would gate, then leave a foot of room in case he wanted to come through. Usually, by the next bend, he would not just come through, but he would 'hang' me on the fence. Briggo was a selfish rider." Edited December 20, 2016 by norbold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Hammer Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 ...which could be the beginning of a whole new thread! The best Team Rider? Darcy Ward for me, unbelievable how he would be aware of his partner from the moment the tapes went up. The amount of 5-1s he conjured up was phenomenal & all accomplished with such ease Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney the robin Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) Darcy Ward for me, unbelievable how he would be aware of his partner from the moment the tapes went up. The amount of 5-1s he conjured up was phenomenal & all accomplished with such easeModern day spot on Hammer Darcy was a terrific team rider also Phil Crump would be high up on my list as a team rider.Leigh Adams was another one he often helped David Ruud around.Collins/Grahame,C.Morton./P.Collins, and the two Moran brothers are the three best partnerships i have seen. Edited December 21, 2016 by Sidney the robin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted December 22, 2016 Report Share Posted December 22, 2016 It's absolutely true, E I. No complaint from me! Barry Briggs was another. When I wrote my booklet, "Two Wimbledon Legends", about Ronnie Moore and Barry Briggs for Wimbledon, I asked some former riders their views on Moore and Briggo. Alf Hagon said, "I was Ronnie Moore's partner. He was the best rider I ever partnered...He could ride full throttle, half throttle, change directions, tootle round slowly, ride the inside line, ride the outside line. He would even shout instructions at me as we were going round. Barry, on the other hand, had to go flat out. It was the only way he could ride. He wasn't exactly out of control, but he wasn't always in control either. If he came up on the inside of you and got some grip he was liable to bash into you." Bob Andrews said: "When I first rode with him [Ronnie Moore] he knew I could gate. He said, 'Get to the first bend first, and leave a gap of about a foot from the line, if I need to I will come through.' We got a 5-1. I then had a season riding with Barry - oh my God! I would gate, then leave a foot of room in case he wanted to come through. Usually, by the next bend, he would not just come through, but he would 'hang' me on the fence. Briggo was a selfish rider." I was jesting mate. Your knowledge is too comprehensive for you not to know what Fundin was like. A subtle but interesting difference between Fundin and Briggo it seems though. Briggo rode flat out because it's the only way he knew how to ride ( which he admits himself) Fundin rode through his even his team mates because he couldn't bear to cross the line in anything but first place. The three of them Moore , Fundin, and Briggo seem to have exceptional characters off the track as well as on it. We will,probably never see the like of them again, more's the pity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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