Risk...acceptable Or Unacceptable?

[Christopher Bcmma Cook]

Air fences are not the answer down the straights, perhaps rider apparel needs to be looked at

 

Perhaps a back/neck support suit under the Kevlars

 

Race suits that inflate?

 

Or race 250's so times are slightly slower

 

Or all fences have 60cm sponge attached to absorb part of the impact

[spiegal]

Spot on

That has no bearing on the severity of Darcy's injury.

 

My opinion is that the bikes are simply too quick, everyone is riding right on ...not near...ON the limit. There is no room for error. These days with the high revving engines..even a relatively competant Prem league mid runner can beat the best. There is little call or need for throttle control, or even the ability to ride tracks on differing quality.

 

Huge..HUGE sums are spent on tuning these engines.....they need to be governed...already Elite League racing is as boring as Formula 1.....we are losing teh "Entertainment Value" in an effort to retain teh "Super Enthusiast" rather than attract the many thousands who have been lost to teh sport.

 

I can easily recall Foxhall track record mid 1970's of about 69 seconds...today it is under 60 seconds. 10 seconds a race quicker....is the racing better ..absolutely not.

 

Initially do away with "times"..pointless and old hat, only drooled over by the "old timers"...

[DutchGrasstrack]

Was also someone in a German grasstrack or sidecar meeting killed at the weekend

 

Stefan Muller - passenger of Karl Keil during the final of the European grasstrack sidecar championship. Absolutly tragic. I was there and it was awful, happened in my photo corner. Muller got trown out of the sidecar and a French team could not avoid him at highspeed halfway in the corner.

[Fromafar]

My first meeting at Ipswich in August 1970 had a sedate heat one race time of 75.4 courtesy of Ron Bagley. I know the track has changed a bit in 45 years but not hugely and they could now do five laps in the time it took Ron to do four! I do wonder how much quicker it will be possible to go at some tracks!

I think here llies the problem,other bike sports and car sports have improved safety measures AND technical specifications to try and reduce speed of their sport to try and stop accidents and in the main has been successful.Speedway has done nothing regarding the technical side of the sport and the bikes are now lethal weapons in conditions that have barely changed in 50 years (less dirt being the only thing).Things have to be looked at ,there is hardly a meeting now that fans are not standing about waiting for an ambulance to arrive.

[Trees]

These guys love racing! They also choose what protection they wear.

 

We love em for it

[cityrebel]

My first meeting at Ipswich in August 1970 had a sedate heat one race time of 75.4 courtesy of Ron Bagley. I know the track has changed a bit in 45 years but not hugely and they could now do five laps in the time it took Ron to do four! I do wonder how much quicker it will be possible to go at some tracks!

eddie, look at Robert lambert at rye the other week, he was absolutely flying. I've been going to hoddesdon since 1972, and did not think it was possible to do that sort of speed on a track that tight.

[Triple.H.]

One thing I've noticed is a lot of riders seem to struggle with laying the bike down. I remember years ago reading about Hackney training school and Len Silver wouldn't let you out with other riders until you could lay the bike down. Didn't someone ride over Nick Morris at Glasgow yesterday ?

Edited August 24, 2015 by Triple.H.

[The White Knight]

I support the original Poster in this.

 

I have said it until I am blue in the face - the Tracks these days are mostly, through force of circumstance, old Tracks (circa: 1928) and have grown too small and tight for the Bikes that are expected to Race on them.

 

To me - you can either change the Tracks, or you can change the Bikes. Obviously changing the Tracks is far too expensive and impractical. It would be expensive to change the Bikes too - but not impossible. This constant striving for more speed is literally killing people. Many will not like what I say - but it is true. The answer must be to slow the Bikes down.

 

If you lost say 10 seconds off Race times due to Bike alterations, as long as everyone was riding similar equipment - I don't understand where the excitement will be lost. Speedway was very exciting fifty years ago, it is very exciting now too, but crucially, with the higher speeds making it much more dangerous.

 

Speedway is a very dangerous Sport anyway, and I fail to see the point of making it even more dangerous by increasing the speeds. I know people will say that is progress and we must go forward - but at what cost? The higher speeds are making Speedway Tracks throughout the Country unfit for purpose.

 

How will supporters feel when Tracks may have to be closed because they are unable to cope with the speed of the Rocket Ship that the current Speedway Bike is becoming?

 

The death of one Rider is too many. Do we not owe it to them to, at least, try to minimise the risks.

 

I have seen far too many very seriously injured Riders or worse in my time watching Speedway, you will never eliminate the risks altogether - but we have to try.

Edited August 24, 2015 by The White Knight

[iris123]

I am not sure there is a hard and fast rule,but haven't some of the worst accidents taken place on the big fast tracks such as those in Poland,Germany and Argentina?Earlier today while at work I was thinking one of the answers was to make the tracks smaller so as to reduce the speeds.One of the reasons that came to me was that I have hardly if at all heard of any bad accidents on the small 80cc tracks in Sweden or Denmark and these kids are inexperienced.So is it because of the less powerful bikes ?

Edited August 24, 2015 by iris123

[MrMungo]

I am not sure there is a hard and fast rule,but haven't some of the worst accidents taken place on the big fast tracks such as those in Poland,Germany and Argentina?Earlier today while at work I was thinking one of the answers was to make the tracks smaller so as to reduce the speeds.

Poland, especially, seems to have more than their fair share of serious accidents

[van wolfswinkel]

After watching from the centre-green at Swindon the other week the I realised the sport looks even more dangerous. Tracks are not wide enough for the speed of the bikes now. Perhaps some people are attracted by crashes, but as many will be put off by all the injuries. the riders know the risks involved, its their choice. And there are quite a few top riders on 6-figure incomes.

The air-fence was a good innovation and has stopped some serious injuries.

There were more deaths in the "old" days.

Unfortunately Lee is one of the few fatalities this century.

[Wackie]

On one hand you've got people saying that bikes are too fast for the tight tracks we have, but then you seem to have the most serious accidents occurring on the big wide tracks of Poland.

 

Tracks now are probably safer than they've ever been in the UK at least. We used to have one ambulance at each meeting, no air fences, lamp posts right up by the track fence, and unforgiving solid (metal at Exeter!!) fences. It's a dangerous sport, which is probably why people enjoy it, and riders race it. Fans love fast, close racing and often bemoan when races are strung out and 'boring'. As unfortunate as any injury to a rider is, and even more so when it's life changing, I really don't think there's much more which could be done to reduce risks.

 

There's neck braces, but it's down to the riders if they choose to wear them. How effective they'd be in crashes like Darcy Ward's I don't know. You can de-tune engines, but there'll always be riders looking for ways to get that bike to go just a little bit faster than their opponents - that's the nature of the sport.

 

It's always more hard hitting when it's a top line rider who gets seriously injured, you think they're almost invincible, there is no reasoning, there is no solution. Unfortunately it just seems to be down to fate - wrong place, wrong time. Michael Schumacher's accident whilst sking is testament to that.

[Bream]

Again, in Darcy's case, I would point my finger at the silencers and light flywheels that are needed to produce any power/speed these days. Bike grabbed grip on the wrong moment. Laguta had a small slide and Darcy got his wheels in line and accelerated with known consequences. Motorcycle racers havent got any human rights these days. Cant figure out any sport or work with so little rights. Hastly designed silencers and decisions about lowering sound levels has caused many terrible crashes by making bikes unpredictable.

[Ghostwalker]

Nasty accidents happens at all kinds of track. Kenny Olsson was killed on Kråkvilan which is the shortest track in Sweden and it's very criticized by

fans for being "dangerous" (too short/tight). Kim Jansson became paralysed when he was involved in a crash. The Henderson brothers

were in front of Kim, they got tangled up and crashed. Kim couldn't avoid them, crashed himself and landed so bad that his spine broke

leaving him paralysed. There was no airfence then but it would not have made a difference as the accident happened mid-track.

 

I don't bike speed is that relevant. 70km/h or 90km/h will both be potentially lethal if a rides crashes and falls of in the wrong way.

[iris123]

 

 

I don't bike speed is that relevant. 70km/h or 90km/h will both be potentially lethal if a rides crashes and falls of in the wrong way.

Not sure that is true.Thought scientific evidence proves speed is a big factor.Slight reduction in speed makes a big difference.But you will always get freak accidents like someone falling off a sofa and being very badly injured because of the way they fell or someone falling from a few storeys up in a block of flats and hardly having any injuries at all

[customhouseregular]

Sorry to bang on about Custom House but it was my speedway home. Pre-war the race times on the big 440 yard track were c. 85 seconds. I would imagine Sayfutdinov could do that today in c. 65 seconds. An accident at that speed has to have more serious consequences.

[E I Addio]

I support the original Poster in this.

 

I have said it until I am blue in the face - the Tracks these days are mostly, through force of circumstance, old Tracks (circa: 1928) and have grown too small and tight for the Bikes that are expected to Race on them.

]

I am not surprised you are blue in the face because once again you make a knee jerk reaction and say the first thing that comes into your head without any evidence to back up what you say.

 

For one thing I don't think there are any tracks that date from 1928. The oldest I can think of off-hand date from around 1948 ish and even they have had alterations to there shape over the years.

 

As for tracks being too small and tight for modern machinery the tightest track in the EL is Lakeside and I can't remember the last time we had a serious injury there. Adam Shields had a bad knee injury around 2010/11 and Kauko Neminen broke his shoulder back in 2008 but that's about it as far as I can recall about from relatively minor injuries.

 

Whatever the reason for accidents, powerful bikes on tight t racks obviously isn't it,and arguing till you are blue in the face on a non point that hasn't been thought through does you no credit. Personally I don't think the serious injury rate has increased at all over the years, although air fences and body armour mean a lot of riders at e walking away from very spectacular crashes these days.

[Vince]

The wages are completely immaterial to the risks riders take, by far the majority of people taking part in dangerous sports put all their money into it rather than get paid. There are competitors and spectators, competitors are the ones willing /wanting to take the risks.

Whilst I think that light flywheels and short stroke engines don't help I don't think banning them would produce any significant reduction in serious injuries and nor would much else. It's a dangerous sport, no adult rider participates unaware of the risks, for many it's part of the attraction. Sometimes things go wrong and that will never change.

[customhouseregular]

I am not surprised you are blue in the face because once again you make a knee jerk reaction and say the first thing that comes into your head without any evidence to back up what you say.

 

For one thing I don't think there are any tracks that date from 1928. The oldest I can think of off-hand date from around 1948 ish and even they have had alterations to there shape over the years.

 

As for tracks being too small and tight for modern machinery the tightest track in the EL is Lakeside and I can't remember the last time we had a serious injury there. Adam Shields had a bad knee injury around 2010/11 and Kauko Neminen broke his shoulder back in 2008 but that's about it as far as I can recall about from relatively minor injuries.

 

Whatever the reason for accidents, powerful bikes on tight t racks obviously isn't it,and arguing till you are blue in the face on a non point that hasn't been thought through does you no credit. Personally I don't think the serious injury rate has increased at all over the years, although air fences and body armour mean a lot of riders at e walking away from very spectacular crashes these days.

Sorry EIA but Richardson, Ashworth, Schlein, Kerr and Ward in a 3 year period tells me the serious injury rate has certainly increased,

[E I Addio]

Sorry to bang on about Custom House but it was my speedway home. Pre-war the race times on the big 440 yard track were c. 85 seconds. I would imagine Sayfutdinov could do that today in c. 65 seconds. An accident at that speed has to have more serious consequences.

Just remind us how many fatalities there were at Custom House in the post war period up to 1972?

 

By the time the place closed the t rack had been shortened to 415 yards and the track record was 70.2. Your estimate of 65 sec is probably not far out based on the times they do at the slightly smaller Swindon so in real terms the actual speeds are not necessarily a lot faster in terms of mph. The faster you go the harder it is to improve on times. And don't forget bikes steer and handle better today than in the past.

Sorry EIA but Richardson, Ashworth, Schlein, Kerr and Ward in a 3 year period tells me the serious injury rate has certainly increased,

Rico Schlein and Ward we re all injured on big fast tracks abroad,not the small tight tracks TWK was on about. Rico and Darcy's accidents happened following touching someone else's rear wheel which is, and always has been of the most common causes of serious injury in Speedwáy. Edited August 24, 2015 by E I Addio