Risk...acceptable Or Unacceptable?

[van wolfswinkel]

The crash you watched on youtube was not "a pre-war". It happened in 1956 and the rider killed in that crash was Zbigniew RANISZEWSKI from Poland.

You can see again it again here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fft_V-zInhY

Terrible...a staircase on a track!

[Triple.H.]

Vienna I think from when a much shorter video of the same incident was posted a few years ago.

Absolutely horrific accident.

[OveFundinFan]

There are risks.... and there are riskier risks. Why on earth those riders were actually riding I dont know. We know speedway is dangerous, but riding on a track like that is just senseless.

[Shale Searcher]

It wasn't even perimeter "flagged" or even a pile of hay bales would have prevented that from being a fatality? Why oh why was staircase not cordened off!! Ridiculous accident, 1 million percent preventable!! It might as well have been a cliff edge, or a minefield......!!

Edited August 28, 2015 by Shale Searcher

[Halifaxtiger]

From my own perspective, I don't think there is more risk of serious injury or fatality than in the past. Bikes are certainly faster, but safety at tracks and medical and surgical procedures have improved significantly.

 

To my knowledge, 5 riders lost their lives riding in Britain alone during the 5 year period 1979-1983. That doesn't take into account serious or paralysing injuries here or fatalities or such injuries everywhere else in the world.

[oldace]

From my own perspective, I don't think there is more risk of serious injury or fatality than in the past. Bikes are certainly faster, but safety at tracks and medical and surgical procedures have improved significantly.

 

To my knowledge, 5 riders lost their lives riding in Britain alone during the 5 year period 1979-1983. That doesn't take into account serious or paralysing injuries here or fatalities or such injuries everywhere else in the world.

1979 Vic Harding

1979 Nigel Wasley

1981 Tony Sanford

1982 Denny Pyeatt

1982 Brett Alderton

1983 Mick Spiers

1983 Craig Featherby

1983 Mike Walsh

 

 

8 at least, dont think I missed anyone off

Edited September 2, 2015 by Oldace

[teddy2706]

Having read all of the interesting posts on this topic, may I make a few observations, hopefully not too controversial?

 

I stopped spectating at the Isle of Man a few years ago because I was not convinced that riders were in 100% control, 100% of the time and I did not wish to witness a fatal accident resulting from this loss of control.

The more often I visited increased that possibility, or so I reasoned?

 

Someone mentioned Zdenek Kudrna's fatal accident, but I believe he was tragically killed at a grass track in the Netherlands, not at a speedway meeting?

 

Speedway has, in my opinion a poor reputation for constructive change, some things are altered on knee jerk reaction, some things take years to alter.

 

Doug Jones campaigned long and hard to make ball ended levers compulsory in motorcycle sport, yet blade ended levers were plainly lethal and a solution was simple.

 

Exposed primary drives were evident for years in motorcycle racing, yet a moron can see the danger that they present, but nothing was done for decades although, again, the solution was simple.

 

Ice racing uses massive rear wheel enclosure to prevent rider/bike/spike contact, now whilst I recognise that dirt has to go somewhere, I believe that getting rid of Briggo deflectors and making rear guards longer with a rubber flap would make contact with the rear wheel less likely and cause less "launching" accidents from running into the back of another bike.

 

Dean Felton unfortunately suffered a start line loop at his last meeting in the sport, he hurt himself too, which was particularly poignant at his last meeting, perhaps Dean might explain to us why this sort of mishap occurs?

 

Air fence construction and the "lifting" phenomenon in particular is certainly not beyond the wit of man to overcome, yet not much seems to be happening about it?

 

Rev limiters are I believe, subject to investigation by Jim McMillan, but I haven't heard any development about this for well over a year (please correct me if you know better).

 

Anything that improves rider safety has to be considered carefully, researched properly and implimented promptly if proven useful, but not every idea is a good idea.

It might be better if the riders themselves were, as a body/lobby, initiating investigation into safety issues, it is they who will benefit, not us onlookers?

[Bream]

"Ice racing uses massive rear wheel enclosure to prevent rider/bike/spike contact, now whilst I recognise that dirt has to go somewhere, I believe that getting rid of Briggo deflectors and making rear guards longer with a rubber flap would make contact with the rear wheel less likely and cause less "launching" accidents from running into the back of another bike."

 

Big or small, you launch from those fenders too. It is even a move of the legend Posa Serenius to trick guy behind him to go for a gap inside him. Then ease off the thorttle a bit and close the gap. Guy behind has to go inside track or lift up and launch towards straw bales after clipping the rear fender.

[Shale Searcher]

"Ice racing uses massive rear wheel enclosure to prevent rider/bike/spike contact, now whilst I recognise that dirt has to go somewhere, I believe that getting rid of Briggo deflectors and making rear guards longer with a rubber flap would make contact with the rear wheel less likely and cause less "launching" accidents from running into the back of another bike."

 

Big or small, you launch from those fenders too. It is even a move of the legend Posa Serenius to trick guy behind him to go for a gap inside him. Then ease off the thorttle a bit and close the gap. Guy behind has to go inside track or lift up and launch towards straw bales after clipping the rear fender.

Per Olef Seranius, watched him live and in the flesh at the 1985 world ice racing final at Assen, Holland... A real frightening sight to see in full flight!!!

[pawel115]

Below is the list of riders who died in speedway crashes in Poland from 1970 until now.

Marian Rose at Rzeszow in 1970

Benedykt Blaszkiewicz at Torun in 1970

Jerzy Bildziukiewicz at Bydgoszcz in 1971

Wieslaw Kuzniar at Rzeszow in 1972

Marek Czerny at Rzeszow in 1972

Janusz Lipertowicz in 1973 at Torun

Zbigniew Malinowski in 1974 at Chorzow

Janusz Lament in 1974 at Bydgoszcz

Jerzy Bialek in 1974 at Rzeszow

Gerard Stach in 1974 at Opole

Kazimierz Araszewicz in 1976 at Czestochowa

Marcin Rozak in 1977 at Tarnow

Kazimierz Fornal in 1978 at Rzeszow

Jerzy Kowalski in 1978 at Leszno

Henryk Drozdek in 1978 at Rzeszow

Ryszard Chrupek in 1979 at Tarnow

Jerzy Suffner in 1979 at Ostrow Wielkopolski

Bogdan Splawski in 1981 at Zielona Gora

Grzegorz Smolinski in 1987 at Poznan

Wieslaw Pawlak in 1987 at Zielona Gora

Grzegorz Kowszewicz in 1992 at Torun

Andrzej Zarzecki in 1993 at Zielona Gora

Artur Pawlak in 1993 at Zielona Gora

Rif Saitgariejew in 1996 at Ostrow Wielkopolski

Jacek Maraszek in 1998 at Gdansk

Wojciech Kielbasa in 2001 at Krosno

Michal Matula in 2007 at Krosno

Arkadiusz Malinger in 2011 at Gniezno

Lee Richardson in 2012 at Wroclaw

 

Boguslaw Nowak,Eugeniusz Blaszak,Dariusz Michalak,Andrzej Szymanski,Krzysztof Cegielski and Rafal Wilk were some of the riders paralized in the same time.

Edited September 2, 2015 by pawel115

[Humphrey Appleby]

Anything that improves rider safety has to be considered carefully, researched properly and implimented promptly if proven useful, but not every idea is a good idea.

Quite so. I simply don't accept the line that 'riders have to accept the risks of the sport'. There are always things that can be done to improve safety, although whether it's economic is another matter.

 

It might be better if the riders themselves were, as a body/lobby, initiating investigation into safety issues, it is they who will benefit, not us onlookers?

Unfortunately, motor sport competitors are their own worst enemies. I see it time-and-time again, even with things like competitors complaining they can't put a Go-Pro on their helmets - failing to understand that it's potentially weakening the helmet and creating an impact point.

 

It comes to down to the fact that if they felt they were going to have a serious accident, they wouldn't do it in the first place.

[DutchGrasstrack]

Someone mentioned Zdenek Kudrna's fatal accident, but I believe he was tragically killed at a grass track in the Netherlands, not at a speedway meeting?

 

Yes in Stadskanaal. Freak accident.

[teddy2706]

"Ice racing uses massive rear wheel enclosure to prevent rider/bike/spike contact, now whilst I recognise that dirt has to go somewhere, I believe that getting rid of Briggo deflectors and making rear guards longer with a rubber flap would make contact with the rear wheel less likely and cause less "launching" accidents from running into the back of another bike."

 

Big or small, you launch from those fenders too. It is even a move of the legend Posa Serenius to trick guy behind him to go for a gap inside him. Then ease off the thorttle a bit and close the gap. Guy behind has to go inside track or lift up and launch towards straw bales after clipping the rear fender.

I don't understand the physics of this argument. Yes, if you are travelling much faster than the bike in front, you might be "launched", but in my opinion, you are more likely to be launched by the spinning rear wheel of the bike in front. I too have seen Per Olaf in action and I don't think I have ever seen him ease the throttle ever, the loony is always flat out! I have seen Krasnikov cross the line on the back of someone elses bike though, at Assen in 2011?

Below is the list of riders who died in speedway crashes in Poland from 1970 until now.

Marian Rose at Rzeszow in 1970

Benedykt Blaszkiewicz at Torun in 1970

Jerzy Bildziukiewicz at Bydgoszcz in 1971

Wieslaw Kuzniar at Rzeszow in 1972

Marek Czerny at Rzeszow in 1972

Janusz Lipertowicz in 1973 at Torun

Zbigniew Malinowski in 1974 at Chorzow

Janusz Lament in 1974 at Bydgoszcz

Jerzy Bialek in 1974 at Rzeszow

Gerard Stach in 1974 at Opole

Kazimierz Araszewicz in 1976 at Czestochowa

Marcin Rozak in 1977 at Tarnow

Kazimierz Fornal in 1978 at Rzeszow

Jerzy Kowalski in 1978 at Leszno

Henryk Drozdek in 1978 at Rzeszow

Ryszard Chrupek in 1979 at Tarnow

Jerzy Suffner in 1979 at Ostrow Wielkopolski

Bogdan Splawski in 1981 at Zielona Gora

Grzegorz Smolinski in 1987 at Poznan

Wieslaw Pawlak in 1987 at Zielona Gora

Grzegorz Kowszewicz in 1992 at Torun

Andrzej Zarzecki in 1993 at Zielona Gora

Artur Pawlak in 1993 at Zielona Gora

Rif Saitgariejew in 1996 at Ostrow Wielkopolski

Jacek Maraszek in 1998 at Gdansk

Wojciech Kielbasa in 2001 at Krosno

Michal Matula in 2007 at Krosno

Arkadiusz Malinger in 2011 at Gniezno

Lee Richardson in 2012 at Wroclaw

 

Boguslaw Nowak,Eugeniusz Blaszak,Dariusz Michalak,Andrzej Szymanski,Krzysztof Cegielski and Rafal Wilk were some of the riders paralized in the same time.

Rzeszow 6!, Zielona Gora 4!,Torun 3!, statistics to be frightened by if you are a rider surely?

[SCB]

I don't understand the physics of this argument. Yes, if you are travelling much faster than the bike in front, you might be "launched", but in my opinion, you are more likely to be launched by the spinning rear wheel of the bike in front. I too have seen Per Olaf in action and I don't think I have ever seen him ease the throttle ever, the loony is always flat out! I have seen Krasnikov cross the line on the back of someone elses bike though, at Assen in 2011?

Rzeszow 6!, Zielona Gora 4!,Torun 3!, statistics to be frightened by if you are a rider surely?

Torun is different now for a start. And the stat I'd be looking at is 17 deaths in the 1970s, 3 in the 80s, 5 in the 90, 2 in the 00s and so far only 2 in the 10s. Things are a lot safer these days.

[New Science]

Torun is different now for a start. And the stat I'd be looking at is 17 deaths in the 1970s, 3 in the 80s, 5 in the 90, 2 in the 00s and so far only 2 in the 10s. Things are a lot safer these days.

Deaths are thankfully less nowadays but the volume of injuries is now greater, Which for me doesn't make the sport any safer Edited September 3, 2015 by New Science

[SCB]

Deaths are thankfully less nowadays but the volume of injuries is now greater, Which for me doesn't make the sport any safer

But is that because there are now more riders riding in more meetings than ever before?

[New Science]

But is that because there are now more riders riding in more meetings than ever before?

I think most people acknowledge that in the last 3 years in particular the number of injuries has significantly increased,with the number of riders and meetings ridden remaining relatively unchanged.

[HenryW]

I think most people acknowledge that in the last 3 years in particular the number of injuries has significantly increased,with the number of riders and meetings ridden remaining relatively unchanged.

Not saying it isn't the case but does anyone actually have any lists of injuries over the years to prove that there are more injuries per meeting now?

[ch958]

ive asked this before but surely the H&S executive insist on accidents at work being recorded so there must be firm data somewhere

[Bream]

I don't understand the physics of this argument. Yes, if you are travelling much faster than the bike in front, you might be "launched", but in my opinion, you are more likely to be launched by the spinning rear wheel of the bike in front. I too have seen Per Olaf in action and I don't think I have ever seen him ease the throttle ever, the loony is always flat out! I have seen Krasnikov cross the line on the back of someone elses bike though, at Assen in 2011?

 

Maybe not in his later years. Earlier he did it more than few times. Last time I saw it live was in early 2000's. I was a mechanic for my dad who advised a friend of mine to not go for the gap if Posa leaves one, "I have, few times..". In the lights of the stadium during freezing winter evening in Oulu, hour later trying to realigne front forks and beating cage so tyre could spin freely I asked him again. You went for it?