Risk...acceptable Or Unacceptable?

[Bream]

Not sure how engine performance would react to electronic rpm-limiter? Would it cut ignition when engine revs too much? That, could lead bike lifting? Rules about (longer) minimum stroke could lead to lower reving engines and then wider torque curve? Problem with longer stroke is higher piston speed and longer floating time at top dead center position.

[customhouseregular]

There we are then...the risk must be acceptable if riders accept it.

[Blackadder]

Maybe the F.I.M should carry out some analysis,they are the ones that control the specification of the bikes

 

Incident Reports are not produced at FIM meetings, and I don't know if any other country has them, but the SCB has the information to hand for the UK.

[Humphrey Appleby]

And despite all that it’s just over a month since Bianchi sadly passed away. There are safety measures that can be taken but F1 like Speedway is ultimately a high speed motor sport, you can marginalise risk but you aren’t getting to stop people being seriously injured.

Yes, but I think the point needs to be made that Bianchi was the first driver killed in F1 for 20 years, whereas 1 or 2 drivers used to be killed every season before there were substantial safety improvements in the 1980s. Moreover, Bianchi was effectively killed in a freak rather than preventable accident (e.g. drivers burning to death because there's no extinguishers available).

 

You'll never eliminate risk completely, just as you can't prevent road deaths entirely. However, you can look at ways of reducing the risk, and speedway is well behind the curve in that respect compared to other motor sports.

Not sure how engine performance would react to electronic rpm-limiter? Would it cut ignition when engine revs too much? That, could lead bike lifting? Rules about (longer) minimum stroke could lead to lower reving engines and then wider torque curve? Problem with longer stroke is higher piston speed and longer floating time at top dead center position.

I'd guess any rev limiter would need to be reactive according to wheel spin conditions, rather than merely cutting revs at a given rpm. The idea being that power is available under wheel spin conditions, but reduced if there's too much grip.

[Vince]

Don't think a rev limiter would be any different to over revving an engine which happens all the time now.

[robert72]

You know the risks racing speedway and you also know the risks driving fast on the motorway but you never think you will get badly hurt or you wouldn't do either.

[Mixy230]

The faster you go the more chance of an injury or a death occuring! (But you must remember the guys are RACING so want to go as fast as the rules allow)

 

A few changes in the rules maybe?

Suggestions.

 

1, Minimum weight of flywheel (stop ultra light flywheels)

2, Maximum tread depth of rear tyre or harder rear tyres (Shore number) (less grip but more consistent and rideable)(also longer lasting)

3, Carb restrictor (tuners will still develop motors to go as fast over time tho!) You could even have a bigger restricter the higher the league ie 25mm National League, 27mm Premier, 28mm Elite (or whatever the motors need to run well! Beena while since I worked on a bike!!! lol (A double up rider just changes carb and a few settings)

[Humphrey Appleby]

You know the risks racing speedway and you also know the risks driving fast on the motorway but you never think you will get badly hurt or you wouldn't do either.

The risks of being hurt on a motorway are far lower than on a speedway track though.

[AndyK86]

I would like to go at a different angle, Are riders over working themselves?

 

They ride every other night and often flying between different countries, and how often do they say they are tired. Tai Woffinden seems a lot happier this year with his lesser workload.

When tired your decision making is not what it should be and that moment on track could be realising you need to shut off to avoid a crash instead of carrying on with a risky move which will more than likely end in a bad crash.

I understand they need to earn there money and this is why they race more than likely to much but surely there are limits, maybe it needs FIM to step in with a maximum of 3 meetings a week.

 

[billybikespeedway]

Going back to 1964 when speedway 1st appeared at Newport Somerton Park, I got talking to an official about speedway and I mentioned that the safety fence didnt look all that safe to me, his reply was that the fence was foe the safety of the spectators not the riders, he said they knew the risks

that said I wish Darcy all the best wishes in the world for a full recovery.

[GoFastTurnLeft]

Havent gone through all 8 pages, so apologies if this has been covered before. But for me, it's not for us to say what's acceptable. The riders know what the risks are and they have all decided to accept them. The Isle of Man TT usually has at least one fatality a year, the event carries on because there are enough people who can weigh those risks in their mind against the thrill of doing something very few people can do and something that they love doing.

 

Speedway is the same. It's more dangerous than F1 by nature, there is no external protection beyond a helmet and kevlars, the tracks are tight and slippy by design. Every rider that swings their leg over a Speedway bike knows this, and does it anyway.

 

But this is also (I believe) why we as fans care about our riders. Like we have recently for Lewis Kerr and I'm sure we will for Darcy. We appreciate the risks they take and that because they do it, we can continue to enjoy a sport we all love, even when we don't.

[robert72]

I would like to go at a different angle, Are riders over working themselves?

 

They ride every other night and often flying between different countries, and how often do they say they are tired. Tai Woffinden seems a lot happier this year with his lesser workload.

When tired your decision making is not what it should be and that moment on track could be realising you need to shut off to avoid a crash instead of carrying on with a risky move which will more than likely end in a bad crash.

I understand they need to earn there money and this is why they race more than likely to much but surely there are limits, maybe it needs FIM to step in with a maximum of 3 meetings a week.

 

you have hit the nail on the head, many riders are riding fatigued .

[The White Knight]

I would like to go at a different angle, Are riders over working themselves?

 

They ride every other night and often flying between different countries, and how often do they say they are tired. Tai Woffinden seems a lot happier this year with his lesser workload.

 

When tired your decision making is not what it should be and that moment on track could be realising you need to shut off to avoid a crash instead of carrying on with a risky move which will more than likely end in a bad crash.

I understand they need to earn there money and this is why they race more than likely to much but surely there are limits, maybe it needs FIM to step in with a maximum of 3 meetings a week.

That is a very good point.

 

I must admit I had not considered that.

[Ghostwalker]

I would like to go at a different angle, Are riders over working themselves?

 

They ride every other night and often flying between different countries, and how often do they say they are tired. Tai Woffinden seems a lot happier this year with his lesser workload.

 

When tired your decision making is not what it should be and that moment on track could be realising you need to shut off to avoid a crash instead of carrying on with a risky move which will more than likely end in a bad crash.

I understand they need to earn there money and this is why they race more than likely to much but surely there are limits, maybe it needs FIM to step in with a maximum of 3 meetings a week.

 

Maybe to some extent, at least those who ride in England as well as in two or three more leagues. I general I think it is a bad idea to forbid riders from earning a living and I also think that

the EU would possible crack down on it as they could see it as a restriction of work or similar which would be against the EU rules.

Basically you cannot restrain a EU-citizens from taking a job in another EU-country. It is pretty much the same as when FIA "tried" to ban SGP-riders from also riding in the SEC.

IIRC, there is thread (started by me) somewhere in the general/news section about a similar suggestion from FIA.

 

Since the EL itself has 2-3 meetings per week, a restriction of 3 meetings per week would be difficult. There wouldn't be any riders available since "everyone" would have hit

the limit on Wednesday already if they apart from EL also would be riding in Sweden or Denmark. Pol and SGP/SEC wouldn't be possible,

 

I don't think there would be any problems for the riders to do Elitserien (Tu) DK (We) or + Allsvenskan (Th) + GP/SEC (Sa) and Polad (Su). It would give them 3-4 days "off" per week.

It is when you add EL/PL into the equation that the problems arises. Then add possible postponed meetings to that and a 3 meeting limit would be more or less impossible.

 

Sure I agree with your sentiment that some riders maybe gets a little too exhausted from all travelling back and forth but I

However one thing that both riders and FIM/national federations could look into is how to deal with injured riders. Too many injured riders are riding/making comeback too early despite that they

should be at home healing their injuries. Many riders just seems to consider it a matter of enduring the pain.

 

Any rider that suffered a concussion should be forced to rest for at least 1 week. The same goes for any rider who uses a medical note so that his team can use R/R.

If R/R for medical reasons then automatically 7 days rest. Possible also requirement for medical clearance for those who have been injured for a longer period of time (3-4 week or longer).

Edited August 27, 2015 by Ghostwalker

[The Master 88]

_{I am sorry but you cant restrict someones Income, and if they ride in 4 different leagues in a week that is 5 rides x 4 20 rides 20 mins work, superbike riders do 2 x 30 min races jump on a plane go to Japan for the eight hour, I don't think its the fact that we now know about all the injuries before the 00s if a rider had a big off in any other country would we have known about it I doubt it its because of internet and sat tv we know about it.}

_{Also Someone does the GPs, The Europeans, The WTC, The World Pairs how many leagues would he be allowed to ride in.}

Edited August 28, 2015 by The Master 88

[f-s-p]

Ove Fundin used to do over 100 meetings a year.

[PolskiZuzel]

 

Watched a pre-war crash on youtube from Austria, the rider died after riding into a bloody metal staircase on the track.

 

 

The crash you watched on youtube was not "a pre-war". It happened in 1956 and the rider killed in that crash was Zbigniew RANISZEWSKI from Poland.

You can see again it again here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fft_V-zInhY

[Shale Searcher]

_{I am sorry but you cant restrict someones Income, and if they ride in 4 different leagues in a week that is 5 rides x 4 20 rides 20 mins work, superbike riders do 2 x 30 min races jump on a plane go to Japan for the eight hour, I don't think its the fact that we now know about all the injuries before the 00s if a rider had a big off in any other country would we have known about it I doubt it its because of internet and sat tv we know about it.}

_{Also Someone does the GPs, The Europeans, The WTC, The World Pairs how many leagues would he be allowed to ride in.}

Well, you can if they are professional drivers, you know, lorry drivers... They are limited to maximum hours over a 2 week period, don't know exactly what the regs are at the moment.... And they get severely punished if they break those limits..... I will find out and add to post...

[waiheke1]

Pilots, air traffic control, truck drivers.. Plenty of professions where there are strict rules around how many hours a week someone can work.

 

That said it would be hard to argue that even 5 two hour speedway meetings a week is excessive.

[Vince]

LGV drivers can actually drive for a maximum of 56 hours per week or 90 hours in two weeks. You can work for more hours than that though and are allowed to do three 15 hour days per week with the rest being 13 hours max. It's all very complicated though and nothing is as straight forward as it seems, as you'd expect of any EU legislation that could be really easy to understand given a bit of thought.

 

My standard hours are 65 per week of nights and I would love to be paid to race motorcycles even if it was in different countries and a bit busy sometimes!!

 

Something I would add is that although the superstars are riding in different countries and spend a lot of time travelling they tend to have somebody else driving. The real worry would be PL and NL riders who are working and getting themselves to meetings, their hours could be really long at times.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Vince