orion Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Sooooooon Swindoners what's your weather forecast for tonight? Looks slightly dodgy on the net but really wanna come Rain coming in around about 8pm ..spoke to Rosco he said if Swindon are winning then we will get to heat 10 but wiil call the match off if we are losing . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Rain coming in around about 8pm ..spoke to Rosco he said if Swindon are winning then we will get to heat 10 but wiil call the match off if we are losing . That'll be about right, #PooleRule grrrrr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game On Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Rain coming in around about 8pm ..spoke to Rosco he said if Swindon are winning then we will get to heat 10 but wiil call the match off if we are losing .It will be off then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) So who is guesting for whom here? Â North for Lambert seems a fair enough like-for-like guest. Is Lindgren in for Milik? Â This is why, I think, there should really be a grading system for guests because of the racing system. (I've said this before in case people think I'm points grubbing here). Â There should be a heat leader and second string grading (which should also be used for team building, rater than the "over 7.00" rule). Â Lindgren would be classed as a heatleader and Milik as second string. So a guest for Milik would have to be a second string up to his guest average of 6.74. (I don't see why you can have a guest with a higher average than the rider he is replacing either btw). Â This would rule out people like Lindgren as a guest for a rider like Milik (and, possibly, Harris for Morris too, as Morris would have been graded a second string at the start of the year). Â King's Lynn's heatleader are, presumably, Iversen and Bjerre. So another heatleader could only guest for one of those two. Â Eligible guests for Milik would then be people like Craig Cook or Ricky Wells, who actually has a higher average than Lindgren but wouldn't be classed as a heatleader. Edited August 20, 2015 by grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Â King's Lynn's heatleader are, presumably, Iversen and Bjerre. So another heatleader could only guest for one of those two. Â Â Â This is where your argument falls down. Lynn's heatleaders are NKI, Lambert and Milik. The latter two are heatleaders so why should we have a second string guest for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Apparently Sarjeant is guesting for Kings Lynn instead of Blackbird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Apparently Sarjeant is guesting for Kings Lynn instead of Blackbird. Blackbird still suffering with injury. With us having injuries to King & Garrity already, it's always risky having riders guesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Morris, Milik and Cook are all heatleaders by virtue of being in the top three of their team's average and therefore having to ride in the tougher hearleader positions. Â Morris and Milik were even signed as heatleaders, whereas Cook has earned his position by moving up over the course of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) This is where your argument falls down. Lynn's heatleaders are NKI, Lambert and Milik. The latter two are heatleaders so why should we have a second string guest for them? The argument doesn't fall down at all, although my assessment of who would be classed as a heatleader at King's Lynn might not be correct as I don't follow the side. Â Not convinced Milik would be a heatleader anyway, as he was fifth in Poole's averages last year, so got his average as a second string rider. Â Morris, Milik and Cook are all heatleaders by virtue of being in the top three of their team's average and therefore having to ride in the tougher hearleader positions. Â Morris and Milik were even signed as heatleaders, whereas Cook has earned his position by moving up over the course of the season. I guess that's where you get problems with grading. At what point does a high scoring second string become classed as a heatleader? Edited August 20, 2015 by grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 The argument doesn't fall down at all, although my assessment of who would be classed as a heatleader at King's Lynn might not be correct as I don't follow the side. Â Not convinced Milik would be a heatleader anyway, as he was fifth in Poole's averages last year, so got his average as a second string rider. Â I guess that's where you get problems with grading. At what point does a second string become classed as a heatleader? Â You either work with averages or with grades, you can't select a team from one system and use the other for selecting guests. Â As it happens I think grades should be used for the lot but you cannot pick and choose which system suits you best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 You either work with averages or with grades, you can't select a team from one system and use the other for selecting guests. Â As it happens I think grades should be used for the lot but you cannot pick and choose which system suits you best. I think it should be used for team building too. Rather than having "two riders over 7" have "2 heatleaders", but still use the averages for total team strangths. Â It's only because the heat formula causes a big imbalance with the averages. If this was the same as the good old days, Lindgren would probably be averaging about 9. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Fair play to KL they got a great guest just like Swindon did for Morris at Wolves . in speedway you have to used the rules to the best advantage, but as been pointed out from the very start when the heat format was changed these sort of things were going to happen meaning no 1's could guest for second strings etc . Edited August 20, 2015 by orion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 So who is guesting for whom here? Â North for Lambert seems a fair enough like-for-like guest. Is Lindgren in for Milik? Â This is why, I think, there should really be a grading system for guests because of the racing system. (I've said this before in case people think I'm points grubbing here). Â There should be a heat leader and second string grading (which should also be used for team building, rater than the "over 7.00" rule). Â Lindgren would be classed as a heatleader and Milik as second string. So a guest for Milik would have to be a second string up to his guest average of 6.74. (I don't see why you can have a guest with a higher average than the rider he is replacing either btw). Â This would rule out people like Lindgren as a guest for a rider like Milik (and, possibly, Harris for Morris too, as Morris would have been graded a second string at the start of the year). Â King's Lynn's heatleader are, presumably, Iversen and Bjerre. So another heatleader could only guest for one of those two. Â Eligible guests for Milik would then be people like Craig Cook or Ricky Wells, who actually has a higher average than Lindgren but wouldn't be classed as a heatleader. Morris and Milik have ridden as heat leaders in every EL meeting they have raced in 2015 though. Â The solution is to weight each heat so riders averages are a better indication of their worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 What they need to do is apply a weighting factor to averages, something like 75% for meetings as a second string and 50% for reserves. Not a fan of "grading", the issue is always going to be with riders on the edge of grading ranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Scb beat me to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Morris and Milik have ridden as heat leaders in every EL meeting they have raced in 2015 though. Â The solution is to weight each heat so riders averages are a better indication of their worth. Â What they need to do is apply a weighting factor to averages, something like 75% for meetings as a second string and 50% for reserves. Not a fan of "grading", the issue is always going to be with riders on the edge of grading ranges. The problem then, though, is that their average isn't actually their average. Â The race format certainly throws up strange figures, just as everyone predicted it would. Edited August 20, 2015 by grachan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 Apparently Sarjeant is guesting for Kings Lynn instead of Blackbird. It is a good job we have two sets of start gates and multiple tapes then. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 What they need to do is apply a weighting factor to averages, something like 75% for meetings as a second string and 50% for reserves. Not a fan of "grading", the issue is always going to be with riders on the edge of grading ranges. What the need is to go back to a decent race formula that provides proper and accurate match averages which are fair to everyone including the reserves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 The problem then, though, is that their average isn't actually their average. Â The race format certainly throws up strange figures, just as everyone predicted it would. I agree it wouldn't be an average (not in the true sense of the word) but rather a rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 This should be on tv, looks to be a cracker, Sarjeant weakens Kings Lynn slightly at reserve over Blackbird but they have some guests in their top 5 who are better than the riders there replacing so should be close.48-42 would be my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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