heathen chemistry Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 squads and reasons why they simply are not feasable in the elite teams would need to consist of at least ten riders maybe 11 or 12 that is 8 teams on average 4 extra riders = 32 where are these 32 riders coming from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSC67 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Another reason they would struggle to work is , surely riders would require a guaranteed number of meetings so they could plan their calendar , what happens to the riders not riding ? Do they sit at home and twiddle their thumbs ? Also there's always the chance that one or two squad members could be injured at the same time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 There are 39 riders on the draft list which don't have an EL team. There's your squads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) How did they manage in what are known as "the old days" - ie pre- and early post-war seasons. Then eight rider teams (six having four rides and reserves a scheduled two rides). This used to be followed by second-half races for them all, plus a couple of races for local junior riders. And riders were restricted to riding only for their own club and continued in many cases season-on-season with the same club. Sadly, as suggested to me by another regular BSF Poster I did try a Google check to get an answer to my query but one did not materialise!! Edited August 19, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) My view is that clubs are spending extra money on guests anyway so why not nominate 2 or 3 guest riders for the season as part of a squad. For instance Bees often use Summers as a guest so sign him as a guest for the season. Edited August 19, 2015 by woz01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Panda Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 My view is that clubs are spending extra money on guests anyway so why not nominate 2 or 3 guest riders for the season as part of a squad. For instance Bees often use Summers as a guest so sign him as a guest for the season. Ummmmm no as he has signed for Swindon for the rest of the season............... Good point though............the thing with the squad system is it would do away with the need for guests and rider replacement as much as possible you could still have riders that doubled up and there would be an automatic replacement available if they were needed by their other team which would work........... It works in Sweden and Poland so there is no reason why it could not work here...........if some of the big names do not want to commit to a full season then it would be ideal................it may even encourage more to want to come and ride here............... RP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electric6 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 who are these top riders that are not racing in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 This is about the 20th thread on this subject. It would not work A, costs and B, the top boys no longer want this country.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) It works in Sweden and Poland so there is no reason why it could not work here...........if some of the big names do not want to commit to a full season then it would be ideal................it may even encourage more to want to come and ride here............... RP It works in Sweden/Poland/Denmark as you can ride on the continent with one set of bikes, mechanics and van. If you want to ride in Britain you need another set of bikes, mechanic, van etc. so riders need a guaranteed income to make it viable. This is about the 20th thread on this subject. It would not work A, costs and B, the top boys no longer want this country.. That's why the squad should be made up of riders with an average below your #7 and if a rider is missing everyone steps up a position in the team and a squad member comes in at reserve. Edited August 19, 2015 by MattK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A ORLOV Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Do the squad riders who are not picked to ride paid anything for being on standby and therefore not able to sign for another club. If so where is the money going to come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) How did they manage in what are known as "the old days" - ie pre- and early post-war seasons. Then eight rider teams (six having four rides and reserves a scheduled two rides). This used to be followed by second-half races for them all, plus a couple of races for local junior riders. And riders were restricted to riding only for their own club and continued in many cases season-on-season with the same club. Sadly, as suggested to me by another regular BSF Poster I did try a Google check to get an answer to my query but one did not materialise!! Gustix, The post-war model did not work. Crowds were initially massive (in 1946), and were still very large by the early fifties. Despite this, London giants New Cross (mid-1953), Harringay (end of 1954), West Ham (end of 1955) and Wembley (March 1957, following death of Sir Arthur Elvin in February 1957) still closed, as did a whole host of provincial clubs. If that model didn't work with thousands, how do you expect it to work these days when crowds are now in their hundreds? All the best Rob Edited August 19, 2015 by lucifer sam 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Ummmmm no as he has signed for Swindon for the rest of the season............... Good point though............the thing with the squad system is it would do away with the need for guests and rider replacement as much as possible you could still have riders that doubled up and there would be an automatic replacement available if they were needed by their other team which would work........... It works in Sweden and Poland so there is no reason why it could not work here...........if some of the big names do not want to commit to a full season then it would be ideal................it may even encourage more to want to come and ride here............... RP How would being part of a squad where you might not get a ride encourage more to ride over here? and what about the cost of bikes,mechanics,flights,etc for exactly how many meetings? i also believe squads would not do away with the need for guests and r/r ,what if you have injuries look at kings lynn, millik missing, lambert injured, lewis kerr injured that puts massive pressure on the 3 other so called squad members to be there and ride, what if one of those is unavailable aswell either through injury or riding in sweden/denmark etc , what do you do then? and would these squad members be happy just waiting around doing nothing waiting for a call up to ride.. My view is that clubs are spending extra money on guests anyway so why not nominate 2 or 3 guest riders for the season as part of a squad. For instance Bees often use Summers as a guest so sign him as a guest for the season. that wouldnt work , theres no one size fits all because averages dictate eligability It works in Sweden/Poland/Denmark as you can ride on the continent with one set of bikes, mechanics and van. If you want to ride in Britain you need another set of bikes, mechanic, van etc. so riders need a guaranteed income to make it viable. That's why the squad should be made up of riders with an average below your #7 and if a rider is missing everyone steps up a position in the team and a squad member comes in at reserve. what if you have 2 heat leaders missing, teams utilise 2 reserves? would fans call that elite league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 what if you have 2 heat leaders missing, teams utilise 2 reserves? would fans call that elite league There's nothing to stop clubs signing short term replacements, rather than relying on guests and R/R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) The squad riders in Poland, Denmark, Sweden can easily get rides in these countries, if they don't get a ride in Poland,they are probably going to get rides in the other 2 countries that week... Those that don't, sign and get a ride or 2 in the UK (because they are good enough) Many many of the riders in the UK are nowhere near good enough to ride abroard! Can you imagine Rob Branford, Simon Lambert or Ben Barker or the other riders at those levels trying to get rides abroard? They are just not good enough... I'm sorry, but squads will not work in the UK, especially not at a level near enough to the Elite League or even Premier League, it really would kill speedway off in the UK, probably for ever as a pro, or semi pro sport.... Something needs to be done, but, after years and years of trying the weakening, dillution, restrictive team building, and constant cost cutting route, perhaps its time to try another way? Edited August 19, 2015 by Shale Searcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 It can work and would work if more riders from abroad wanted some meetings. I personally believe it's the best way forward and maybe take the teams to 6 man squads, one could be your FTR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 It can work and would work if more riders from abroad wanted some meetings. I personally believe it's the best way forward and maybe take the teams to 6 man squads, one could be your FTR. But they don't want to come here, they have no need to. Please get that between your lugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 that wouldnt work , theres no one size fits all because averages dictate eligability Why? If you have 2 or 3 guests signed in a squad clubs can pick riders which averages are suitable to riders they know are likely to miss a few meetings. If for example you have a d/u rider who you know will miss meeting you sign a guest rider to a similar average. Or course injuries will happen but it wouldn't stop clubs signing riders to replace if the 3 guest riders are not suitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starman2006 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Do the squad riders who are not picked to ride paid anything for being on standby and therefore not able to sign for another club. If so where is the money going to come from. You would bet your bottom dollar they would want some sort of retainer. But that is just not posible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 But they don't want to come here, they have no need to. Please get that between your lugs. Err i fully get that. Quite a few have said the would come back if it was one night racing and less fixtures. Like they do successfully in Poland and Sweden. I apologise if you have limited reading capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen chemistry Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Err i fully get that. Quite a few have said the would come back if it was one night racing and less fixtures. Like they do successfully in Poland and Sweden. I apologise if you have limited reading capacity. matt ford and his poole corale said that a few times , not many other folk have said it... i dont think thats the case , the logistics wouldnt work, most elite clubs have tight schedules, ie this week swindon at belle vue monday, at poole wednesday , and at coventry friday , some times weds and thurs meeting are we to suggest that if a swindon rider got injured on the weds that the squad member would fly over for the thurs meeting???? and at what cost, its easier for clubs to get a pl/el guest..... poland /sweden have one match a week on set day, the riders know if there riding or not in advance, our schedule as it is wouldnt work with squads as you'd need squad members to be ready to go at any time with little or no advanced warning ,due to tight fixtures . and with them being in another country makes it anon starter Edited August 19, 2015 by heathen chemistry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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