Shale Searcher Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ok, this subject in one guise or another crops up on here regularly. However, it's normally on a normal meeting thread that gets derailed by an accident/injury during that meeting which then derails the meeting thread....!! So, let's start with the bikes.. what can, should, could be done to them, without damaging/changing the nature and attractiveness of the dangerous sport that speedway actually is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Make the engines 1000cc. Spinier bikes will lead to less reaction which means less grip and throwing riders off. Could be the most stupid suggestion ever but I'm trying to think of something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Make the engines 1000cc. Spinier bikes will lead to less reaction which means less grip and throwing riders off. Could be the most stupid suggestion ever but I'm trying to think of something different. If you genuinely think that upping the bikes power to provide less grip, by causing the rear wheel to spin-up more, be able to rotate more freely in the deeper dirt, then why not change the composition/tread depth/pattern of the rear tyres...? That would be a cheaper option long term, surely? SCB, you normally talk pretty eloquently on here, anything you want to add ref the rear wheel speed/grip......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Make the engines 1000cc. Spinier bikes will lead to less reaction which means less grip and throwing riders off. Could be the most stupid suggestion ever but I'm trying to think of something different. A 2 valve Jawa revved at probably 7000 rpm, a modern GM revs at nearly twice that. The problem with modern bikes is they have a major lack of torque, short stroke motors and super lightweight flywheels have seen to that. It may rev at 12000 plus and it can certainly get to those revs very quickly but the second it hits some resistance it simply wants to go straight whereas the older long strong motors, although not as easy to get round bends had the capacity to ride through some resistance without killing the revs and sending the rider off at right angles 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 If you genuinely think that upping the bikes power to provide less grip, by causing the rear wheel to spin-up more, be able to rotate more freely in the deeper dirt, then why not change the composition/tread depth/pattern of the rear tyres...? Everything they try to change the tyres, the riders whinge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Im with Oldace in that the short stroke, light flywheel engines make life difficult even for the GP riders but especially in the lower leagues. The rev limiter that seems to have disappeared could be used to make those engines redundant. Bringing the limit down in stages over a couple of seasons would make a healthy difference I think. Long stroke engines and heavier flywheels will also make the inevitable future noise reductions safer. Just don't advertise the fact you are trying to make the sport safer!!! As an afterthought I also think that the latest engines are more difficult to get set up for track conditions so getting rid of them could level the playing field a fair bit as well as improving engine longevity and therefore cost. The rev limiter is such a good idea I'm sure we'll never see it Edited August 19, 2015 by Vince 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 If you genuinely think that upping the bikes power to provide less grip, by causing the rear wheel to spin-up more, be able to rotate more freely in the deeper dirt, then why not change the composition/tread depth/pattern of the rear tyres...? That would be a cheaper option long term, surely? SCB, you normally talk pretty eloquently on here, anything you want to add ref the rear wheel speed/grip......? Honestly, any reasonable discussion from em on this subject is wasted. I can't ride a bike, I don't really understand how engines react. My suggestion was really made more out of ignorance with a tiny little bit of knowledge thrown in. IMO, this is a problem that will require you getting 2 or 3 engine tuners and half a dozen riders (ideally the more engine savvy riders) in a room to fight it over. Us fans will in the main not have a clue how to fix this one. I think this is somewhere the Speedway Star could gain a subscriber, a regular feature on bike set up, how they actually work etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 IMO, this is a problem that will require you getting 2 or 3 engine tuners and half a dozen riders (ideally the more engine savvy riders) in a room to fight it over. Us fans will in the main not have a clue how to fix this one. I think this is somewhere the Speedway Star could gain a subscriber, a regular feature on bike set up, how they actually work etc. I actually think the opposite, this is a situation that will need rules enforcing to change the situation. Tuners and riders have too much of a vested interest to come up with unbiased solutions. Maybe some ex riders would be a better solution, much as he gets knocked on here I think Kelvin Tatum would be a good start. Not sure there is enough to be said about how a Speedway bike works to make it a regular feature, maybe 3 or 4 articles would be interesting but the actual changes that can be made are pretty limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I actually think the opposite, this is a situation that will need rules enforcing to change the situation. Tuners and riders have too much of a vested interest to come up with unbiased solutions. Maybe some ex riders would be a better solution, much as he gets knocked on here I think Kelvin Tatum would be a good start. Not sure there is enough to be said about how a Speedway bike works to make it a regular feature, maybe 3 or 4 articles would be interesting but the actual changes that can be made are pretty limited. Really only 5 things that can be adjusted at the track. Tyre Pressures Chain length Ignition timing Sprocket size Carb Jet Most other alterations are done in the workshop Not really a lot there for a speedway star feature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Really only 5 things that can be adjusted at the track. Tyre Pressures Chain length Ignition timing Sprocket size Carb Jet Most other alterations are done in the workshop Not really a lot there for a speedway star feature Add clutch plate pressure, and valve settings. Agree, still very limited thought. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Maybe not but why would a rev limiter make a bike easier to ride/safer? I'll be honest, in my head that seems barmy. What does changing chain length do? It might not be able to be a regular feature but as someone who is interesting in the mechanic of stuff, how things work, why they do stuff I'm clueless about speedway bikes and how they actually work and why they work the way they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Maybe not but why would a rev limiter make a bike easier to ride/safer? I'll be honest, in my head that seems barmy. What does changing chain length do? It might not be able to be a regular feature but as someone who is interesting in the mechanic of stuff, how things work, why they do stuff I'm clueless about speedway bikes and how they actually work and why they work the way they do. Makes the back wheel more (or less) inclined to slide. On a smaller, heavier track you want to assist the broadside, on a bigger, slicker one you want to arrest it a touch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Makes the back wheel more (or less) inclined to slide. On a smaller, heavier track you want to assist the broadside, on a bigger, slicker one you want to arrest it a touch Lengthen or shorten the bike as well as sprocket size (chain length) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Maybe not but why would a rev limiter make a bike easier to ride/safer? I'll be honest, in my head that seems barmy. What does changing chain length do? It might not be able to be a regular feature but as someone who is interesting in the mechanic of stuff, how things work, why they do stuff I'm clueless about speedway bikes and how they actually work and why they work the way they do. Really speedway is pretty unique in the Motorsport world. In most Motorsport (motox/rallying maybe slightly excepted) the faster the driven wheel(s) spins the faster you go. With speedway over 50% of that wheel spin is not transferred directly to forward motion. Of course the trick is getting all the above factors, and more, to combine to give maximum purchase on any given track on any given day. Factor in that things like air temp and even altitude can affect these things then you see getting everything right can be a bit of a task (or a lucky guess) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 So what about track surfaces, shape, material etc (not fencing yet) just track make-up........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 So what about track surfaces, shape, material etc (not fencing yet) just track make-up........... FFS I wasn't trying to do a detailed explanation of bike set up, just trying to give Shawn a basic grasp 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Go back to the old silencers . Injuries have rocketed since the new ones were brought in. Edited August 19, 2015 by New Science 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Still think the old Uprights were more suitable for the Tracks they are expected to Race on. I don't expect anyone to agree with me though.................. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 FFS I wasn't trying to do a detailed explanation of bike set up, just trying to give Shawn a basic grasp That's why I changed tack!! So we wouldn't get bogged down on bike settings.....!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 That's why I changed tack!! So we wouldn't get bogged down on bike settings.....!! Ah, apologies. I (wrongly) thought you were suggesting I had missed out the effect of track surfaces on an engine set up. I realise now you meant with regard to safety,the reference to fences should have been my clue!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.