ColinMills Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 I don't get the sportsmans mentality of doing the chosen sport for money..surely its a inner thing to be world champion of your chosen profession? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Mic Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 Whatever the terms, Emil should be riding in the world championship, and BSI should do all they can to make it happen. What is most important is that BSI get Emil to ride in the GP, before One Sport get Tai to ride in the SEC. Why should they? So you advocate offering him the earth just so he rides? I'm sure all the other GP riders would love that. And regarding Woffinden, the difference is, he wants to be world champion as many times as possible & the only way he can do that is.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 I don't get the sportsmans mentality of doing the chosen sport for money..surely its a inner thing to be world champion of your chosen profession? What does a professional sportsman do it for if not money? Sure they probably started out with the love of the sport, and might still compete up to a point if they weren't getting paid, but I very much doubt they'd commit to riding umpteen meetings around Europe and the World as an amateur. People couldn't afford to do it unless they were independently wealthy. Professional sportsmen are mercenaries with very few exceptions, and rightly so as their employers show no loyalty either. The World Championship in speedway is also a commercial profit making exercise regardless of how it's dressed up, and I don't think it's at all unreasonable for those riding in the show to expect to not do it at a loss. Does everyone want to be World Champion in their chosen sport? I've never had that ambition, but then I always realised I'd never be good enough. I'd personally also not be willing to risk physical injury and lose money so those not sharing those risks can be paid fat salaries, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozrik Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) I don't get the sportsmans mentality of doing the chosen sport for money..surely its a inner thing to be world champion of your chosen profession? Loving your chosen profession doesn't mean working for nothing, or operating at a loss. Would you? Why should they? So you advocate offering him the earth just so he rides? I'm sure all the other GP riders would love that. And regarding Woffinden, the difference is, he wants to be world champion as many times as possible & the only way he can do that is.... Not the earth, just a deal to get him in the world title, because he is undoubtedly in the top 15 in the world, and good enough to challenge for the title, which some of the current riders are not. In commercial/promotional terms, why have one of your best assets not in the mix. I recall reading 2012 figures showing the winner of a GP getting $12 000 US. The total for all 18 riders (including reserves) was something like $84 500. Obviously that has probably increased now. I have no idea what it cost to stage a GP on a temporary track, but surely riders could get a larger piece of total revenue per meeting. Edited September 24, 2015 by Ozrik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozrik Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Bit late, Tai rode in the 2013 SEC Niamh Yeah of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 In commercial/promotional terms, why have one of your best assets not in the mix. Would he draw any more fans, or more to the point, enough to offset his increased appearance fees and those of all the other riders who'd start wanting them too? Why do BSI care anyway? With most of the GPs, the risk is taken by the local promoter and BSI will get their money regardless of who turns up, whilst at Cardiff you could put out 16 juniors and probably the same number of fans will turn up. I have no idea what it cost to stage a GP on a temporary track, but surely riders could get a larger piece of total revenue per meeting. Of course they could and should, as the SGP is/was basically making over 2 million quid in profit. Whilst 16 riders are prepared to turn up and ride for the money on offer though, then nothing is going to change. [Philippe will of course again say that it's the FIM who pay the prize money and the riders should take it up with them, but frankly that's a bit of a cop out.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Loving your chosen profession doesn't mean working for nothing, or operating at a loss. Would you? Not the earth, just a deal to get him in the world title, because he is undoubtedly in the top 15 in the world, and good enough to challenge for the title, which some of the current riders are not. In commercial/promotional terms, why have one of your best assets not in the mix. I recall reading 2012 figures showing the winner of a GP getting $12 000 US. The total for all 18 riders (including reserves) was something like $84 500. Obviously that has probably increased now. I have no idea what it cost to stage a GP on a temporary track, but surely riders could get a larger piece of total revenue per meeting. Prize money not changed 1st 12,000 usd 2nd 8,800 3rd 7200 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Out of interest, what is the start and points money in the GP?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchGrasstrack Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Prize money:1 US$ 12,000.-2 US$ 8,800.-3 US$ 7,200.-4 US$ 6,200.-5 US$ 5,200.-6 US$ 5,200.-7 US$ 4,600.-8 US$ 4,600.-9 US$ 3,850.-10 US$ 3,700.-11 US$ 3,650.-12 US$ 3,600.-13 US$ 3,550.-14 US$ 3,500.-15 US$ 3,450.-16 US$ 3,400.-17 US$ 1,000.-18 US$ 1,000.- Believe there is a fee from the BSI as well - official FIM start money does not exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Prize money: 1 US$ 12,000.- 2 US$ 8,800.- 3 US$ 7,200.- 4 US$ 6,200.- 5 US$ 5,200.- 6 US$ 5,200.- 7 US$ 4,600.- 8 US$ 4,600.- 9 US$ 3,850.- 10 US$ 3,700.- 11 US$ 3,650.- 12 US$ 3,600.- 13 US$ 3,550.- 14 US$ 3,500.- 15 US$ 3,450.- 16 US$ 3,400.- 17 US$ 1,000.- 18 US$ 1,000.- Believe there is a fee from the BSI as well - official FIM start money does not exists. That prize money includes travel,hotel for the European GP`S. As DGT has said the 15 permanent GP riders for the season get an up front payment from BSI- this was a replacement for the special big money extra races they had for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 US$12000 is £7800 Down to US$1000 = £650 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 US$12000 is £7800 Down to US$1000 = £650 $3400 for the last place effectively. $1000 is just for track reserves who likely live round the corner and wont ride anyway. But yes I agree with you, pretty good money for a minority sport like speedway and certainly far in excess of the earnings pre GP. Of course the FIM set and pay the prize money but it is nice to see you post positive things about the SGP for a change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPNY Posted September 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Why do BSI care anyway? With most of the GPs, the risk is taken by the local promoter and BSI will get their money regardless of who turns up, whilst at Cardiff you could put out 16 juniors and probably the same number of fans will turn up. Oh my word we have a winner ladies and gentleman Thats a belter hahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 be willing to risk physical injury and lose money so those not sharing those risks can be paid fat salaries, Good job you weren't a top Rugby Union player pre the 1990s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave the Mic Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Not the earth, just a deal to get him in the world title, because he is undoubtedly in the top 15 in the world, and good enough to challenge for the title, which some of the current riders are not. In commercial/promotional terms, why have one of your best assets not in the mix. I recall reading 2012 figures showing the winner of a GP getting $12 000 US. The total for all 18 riders (including reserves) was something like $84 500. Obviously that has probably increased now. I have no idea what it cost to stage a GP on a temporary track, but surely riders could get a larger piece of total revenue per meeting. But why should he be on better terms than anyone else? At the beginning of the year they all start on 0 & he shouldn't be given anything special to compete - what happens if he gets offered a better deal than say, Greg & then Greg wins the title & Emil flops? And he isn't an "asset" of the GP series, is he? I'm not disputing the riders should get a better deal - but they ALL should, not just Emil. If he wanted to ride in the GP, he would, but clearly he isn't that bothered about being world champion, whilst Woffinden et al are. What does a professional sportsman do it for if not money? Sure they probably started out with the love of the sport, and might still compete up to a point if they weren't getting paid, but I very much doubt they'd commit to riding umpteen meetings around Europe and the World as an amateur. People couldn't afford to do it unless they were independently wealthy. Professional sportsmen are mercenaries with very few exceptions, and rightly so as their employers show no loyalty either. The World Championship in speedway is also a commercial profit making exercise regardless of how it's dressed up, and I don't think it's at all unreasonable for those riding in the show to expect to not do it at a loss. Does everyone want to be World Champion in their chosen sport? I've never had that ambition, but then I always realised I'd never be good enough. I'd personally also not be willing to risk physical injury and lose money so those not sharing those risks can be paid fat salaries, Not sure much of this is entirely correct. A work colleague's brother is a pro golfer on the tour, but doesn't make a particularly good living - it's surprisingly expensive to compete, what with all the travel etc. Further, I can't imagine that many of the young Aussies that have come over here are "independently wealthy", but they seem to get buy even if not doing very well & they are "professional sportsmen", are they not? I have oft been lambasted for saying that riders risk injury in the name of entertaining us - which I stand by - but I also accept that they would race for nothing in a disused quarry watched by one man walking his dog. Riders race because they like it. Sportsmen compete because they like it. They don't all make a decent living. Not sure your second paragraph holds much water either. I think it is unreasonable to call all professional sportsmen mercenaries. Perhaps some are & certainly many in football, for example, but I think to say almost all are, is way off the mark & you do them a huge dis-service in many, many cases. No, not everyone wants to be world champion, but then as you say, some go into sport & find they aren't good enough. The fact is, many sportsmen compete & lose money (speedway is a good example of that) & still take the risk. However, ask the likes of Leigh Adams, Chris Morton, Dennis Sigalos, John Louis, Tommy Knudsen, Jan Andersson, Scott Autrey etc, if they wanted to be world champion & I think we know what the answer would be. So, no, not every rider has the ambition to be world champion, but surely those that race in the kind of bracket that Emil does, harbour that ambition? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinMills Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 What does a professional sportsman do it for if not money? Sure they probably started out with the love of the sport, and might still compete up to a point if they weren't getting paid, but I very much doubt they'd commit to riding umpteen meetings around Europe and the World as an amateur. People couldn't afford to do it unless they were independently wealthy. Professional sportsmen are mercenaries with very few exceptions, and rightly so as their employers show no loyalty either. The World Championship in speedway is also a commercial profit making exercise regardless of how it's dressed up, and I don't think it's at all unreasonable for those riding in the show to expect to not do it at a loss. Does everyone want to be World Champion in their chosen sport? I've never had that ambition, but then I always realised I'd never be good enough. I'd personally also not be willing to risk physical injury and lose money so those not sharing those risks can be paid fat salaries, at no point did I mention I would expect them to ride at a loss, that's a crazy statement..sport is competitive, you play/ride to win, its "normally" done by those with talent, to want to be the best...emil is capable of being the best. to me, imo, I dont understand a rider of his ability to turn down the chance of being world champion.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Why oh why do people STILL fail to understand what is going on here! What nationality is Emil? What is the event he is being used as a promotional tool for? Track the money behind said company. In that part of the world, quite simply, you do as you are told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Why oh why do people STILL fail to understand what is going on here! What nationality is Emil? What is the event he is being used as a promotional tool for? Track the money behind said company. In that part of the world, quite simply, you do as you are told. I thought that Emil have moved to Poland to live, and thought that would lead to him being a bit more able to control his own activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 I thought that Emil have moved to Poland to live, and thought that would lead to him being a bit more able to control his own activities. Clearly not. The money behind OneSport are the former promoters of Torun? The promoter who because he couldn't get his own way regarding a playoff final, forbade his team from racing, leaving a capacity crowd without a playoff final to watch... Many of the 'money men' in that part of the world are carry overs from the old system, used to a system of getting their own way, one way or the other. Emil was quite happy to race in the GP's until OneSport came along.. ever since, it's been a no go area for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Clearly not. The money behind OneSport are the former promoters of Torun? The promoter who because he couldn't get his own way regarding a playoff final, forbade his team from racing, leaving a capacity crowd without a playoff final to watch... Many of the 'money men' in that part of the world are carry overs from the old system, used to a system of getting their own way, one way or the other. Emil was quite happy to race in the GP's until OneSport came along.. ever since, it's been a no go area for him. What I heard about the Torun owner was that he is fed up with speedway, and going over to Football. Wonder if he is the same guy you refer to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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