Will Ward Win A World Title Within The Next Five Years A Simple Yes Or No.?

[waiheke1]

I left the UK early in 87, so missed his visit. Do have the programme though, I think the aces only home loss that season.

Aces seemed to have such a strong side that season I thought theyd be champs, but blackbird evidently had a huge drop in form, Andy Smith not back to his best after his injuries from the previous season, and the start of Mort's decline.

Edited August 20, 2015 by waihekeaces1

[stratton]

Ah, I do love historical revisionism ... with a selective memory to cherry pick those that help one's argument.

 

So I shall enter into that just as freely..

 

No doubt that BB had his title hopes ended by Bernie Persson in that fateful incident that left him with such a ghastly injury.

But Ivan Mauger could easily claim that the same Persson character destroyed his chances in the 67 Final when he dumped Mauger on the first bend of Heat 18. And wily old Fundin was better able to deal with the pandemonium that delayed the rerun while they got Persson off the track after his protests.

 

Similarly BB himself was mightily lucky to be allowed to keep the 57 title when many thought he had caused Fundin to fall the in the run off.

Every modern day international ref would have had Briggs excluded.

 

Then there is the Belle Vue record.

In the period 1969 to 1972 - when I was watching and Ivan was an Ace - the head to head between BB and Ivan are interesting.

 

In league matches Ivan beat BB three times in the 69 match, they were one race each in the 1970 BL fixture (with Ivan also winning the second half final over BB) and in 1971 and 1972 neither appeared in a league match against each other at Hyde Road.

 

In the BLRCs over the same period, obviously Barry won the 69 and 70 events and Ivan 1971.

In 1969 Ivan beat Barry when they met (but Barry only needed a second to win) and that was reversed in 1971 when BB beat Ivan in their last race when Ivan had the title in the bag. In 1970 Ivan was excluded for tape breaking when they were due to meet.

 

History can be twisted any way one likes if you have a mind to do it.

Or could it just be that things were not quite how you thought Sid?

No a great post Central and discussing things like this beats squabbling with some on here.I think from the mid sixties Barry had the upper hand then Ivan from 68 got on top a bit but i have noticed in my collection Briggo certainly beat Ivan quite a bit in individual events.Dont get me wrong Central i loved watching Ivan ride when other riders were turning up in scruffy cars with a bike on the back Ivan turned up in a immaculate van he certainly took speedway to another level professionally.And he had to sacrifice alot and work damn hard to get where he did Ivan, Briggo,Ole are in my top ten top ever sport stars.What i remember most about Ivan was how decent he was with the fans, never refused autographs and lets not forget he was not that popular at Swindon was booed alot but he took it in his stride.So Central you believe Ivan was better than Briggo around Hyde Rd? you have a great case and you could well be right.I have all of the six Briggo 6 BLRC programmes wins my uncle went i never did but enjoyed going to Hyde Rd from 73 onwards a great racetrack the best. Edited August 20, 2015 by sidney

[Grand Central]

No a great post Central and discussing things like this beats squabbling with some on here.I think from the mid sixties Barry had the upper hand then Ivan from 68 got on top a bit but i have noticed in my collection Briggo certainly beat Ivan quite a bit in individual events.Dont get me wrong Central i loved watching Ivan ride when other riders were turning up in scruffy cars with a bike on the back Ivan turned up in a immaculate van he certainly took speedway to another level professionally.And he had to sacrifice alot and work damn hard to get where he did Ivan, Briggo,Ole are in my top ten top ever sport stars.What i remember most about Ivan was how decent he was with the fans, never refused autographs and lets not forget he was not that popular at Swindon was booed alot but he took it in his stride.So Central you believe Ivan was better than Briggo around Hyde Rd? you have a great case and you could well be right.I have all of the six Briggo 6 BLRC programmes wins my uncle went i never did but enjoyed going to Hyde Rd from 73 onwards a great racetrack the best.

All good points Sidney.

[BWitcher]

I left the UK early in 87, so missed his visit. Do have the programme though, I think the aces only home loss that season.

Aces seemed to have such a strong side that season I thought theyd be champs, but blackbird evidently had a huge drop in form, Andy Smith not back to his best after his injuries from the previous season, and the start of Mort's decline.

 

That was my one and only visit to Hyde Road. It was a double header, Wolves in the league match 1st, then Oxford in the League Cup (semi I think, but could be wrong).

 

I was 12 at the time and Lars was, along with Sam, my favourite Wolves rider so I'd been banging on to my Dad how brilliant he was going to do once I found out we were going. He of course was laughing it off as Lars was just an average reserve.. but he rode a stormer, 10pts from 4 rides, Sam made a brilliant pass on the last lap to secure the win.

 

Aces saw off Hans Nielsen and the Cheetahs in the 2nd meet though.

[sparkafag]

How it can it possibly be known if Ward is or isn’t better than Adam was? Even if he is/isn’t does it matter? It isn’t like he has to be better than Leigh Adams, he has to be better than the guys racing a bike now, and you could argue the case that he is better than the vast majority.

 

To state Ward is simply naturally talented is also almost damning with faint praise, he is also absurdly consistent, despite his off track troubles I can’t think of any stage of his career thus far where he has had struggles with form for a prolonged period, the GP of New Zealand and a first leg play off (I think) against Coventry are complete rarities

 

Even taking into account his years ban, he has had a sensational career thus far for a 23 year old.

 

This is all ifs and buts etc, but if he had picked up even an average score of 10 a round in the GP’s he missed in 2013 (10 is actually lower than his season average that year he finishes 3^rd in the World, if he does the same in 2014, 10 point average, he is taking 3^rd again.

 

I understand the counter would be, part of the problem is staying fit etc, but that also comes with maturity knowing where to be and when etc, if he irons that out (I don’t see much that suggests he won’t personally) he won’t be far away from winning at least one world title.

Edited August 20, 2015 by sparkafag

[stratton]

All good points Sidney.

Grand Central did you go or remember Bob Paulson beating Ivan in heat 1 at Hyde Rd?a real shock as Ivan at that time hardly dropped a point. Edited August 20, 2015 by sidney

[Grand Central]

Grand Central did you go or remember Bob Paulson beating Ivan in heat 1 at Hyde Rd?a real shock as Ivan at that time hardly dropped a point.

 

No we didn't go that night.

But remember the 'story' of it.

Amazing that such a small event could still be remembered by people, who were not actually there, so many years later.

[The White Knight]

 

No we didn't go that night.

But remember the 'story' of it.

Amazing that such a small event could still be remembered by people, who were not actually there, so many years later.

A sure testament of Ivan's Legend.

[Paulco]

Anyway , back to the topic at hand . My earlier comment about Darcy being naturally talented , what I meant by that was that I don't think there is a rider today more in complete control of his speedway bike during a race than Darcy Ward . It's like he can position the bike , make up ground , overtake an opponent etc almost at will and make it look so easy . Gollob at Bydgoszcz being the closest to that in recent years .

I've no doubt that if Darcy cuts out the off track nonsense , he will be the best speedway rider in the world for at least the next 5 years .

[PHILIPRISING]

 

No we didn't go that night.

But remember the 'story' of it.

Amazing that such a small event could still be remembered by people, who were not actually there, so many years later.

ON a par with Jim Tebby beating Ivan in Heat 1 of a KO Cup match at Wimbledon ...

[customhouseregular]

Or Stan Stevens beating Briggo at West Ham. I can still remember it as clear as day .

[cityrebel]

ON a par with Jim Tebby beating Ivan in Heat 1 of a KO Cup match at Wimbledon ...

I remember it well phil. The first leg of the 1970 cup final, even though I was just a nipper at the time. Tebby's achievement was mainly due to mirac's brilliant team riding skills!

Or Stan Stevens beating Briggo at West Ham. I can still remember it as clear as day .

Or Preben Rosenkilde beating Ole Olsen at custom house in 1971, the cheers took the roof off the main grandstand!

[customhouseregular]

And that was a big stand, even then. Amazing to think the Custom House stadium originally had a capacity of 120,000. Not many speedway venues could boast that .

[cityrebel]

And that was a big stand, even then. Amazing to think the Custom House stadium originally had a capacity of 120,000. Not many speedway venues could boast that .

I first went there in May 1970. The stadium then was a shadow of its former self, with the first and second bends and back straight enclosures replaced by a concrete wall.

[Grand Central]

ON a par with Jim Tebby beating Ivan in Heat 1 of a KO Cup match at Wimbledon ...

I remember it well phil. The first leg of the 1970 cup final, even though I was just a nipper at the time. Tebby's achievement was mainly due to mirac's brilliant team riding skills!

.

Slight malfunction on the memory as it was Trevor Hedge who won a Heat 1 of the Cup final ahead of Jim Tebby and Ivan.

Ronnie Moore actually brought wonderful Cyril home ahead of Ivan in his next ride. And then ivan went and fell in the last race of the match to round off a real nightmare.

 

Interestingly, all this at Wimbledon came just two or three weeks after Paulson had beaten him at a Belle Vue.

 

That Wimbledon Cup Final was a real humiliation for The Aces; with them going about 20 points down mid meeting and never stood a chance.

 

Mind you Belle Vue had just won the League AND Ivan had not long won his record breaking third title in a row.

So we could afford to give the other lesser teams a little success of their own.

It only seemed polite.

.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Grand Central

[cityrebel]

.

Slight malfunction on the memory as it was Trevor Hedge who won a Heat 1 of the Cup final ahead of Jim Tebby and Ivan.

Ronnie Moore actually brought wonderful Cyril home ahead of Ivan in his next ride. And then ivan went and fell in the last race of the match to round off a real nightmare.

Interestingly, all this at Wimbledon came just two or three weeks after Paulson had beaten him at a Belle Vue.

That Wimbledon Cup Final was a real humiliation for The Aces; with them going about 20 points down mid meeting and never stood a chance.

Mind you Belle Vue had just won the League AND Ivan had not long won his record breaking third title in a row.

So we could afford to give the other lesser teams a little success of their own.

It only seemed polite.

.

thanks for correcting me, Ivan 8 from 5 rides I seem to remember. I knew ronnie team rode someone to victory over Mauger, it was only a lifetime ago! Edited August 20, 2015 by cityrebel

[stratton]

No we didn't go that night.

But remember the 'story' of it.

Amazing that such a small event could still be remembered by people, who were not actually there, so many years later.

Was a bit of banter from me about Mauger but by god he was good it is easier to remember who beat him because they're were not many.

[customhouseregular]

I first went there in May 1970. The stadium then was a shadow of its former self, with the first and second bends and back straight enclosures replaced by a concrete wall.

Don't I just know it.

[E I Addio]

Or Stan Stevens beating Briggo at West Ham. I can still remember it as clear as day .

Ironically he was about the only one who ever did beat Briggo at Custom House. Briggs comment about the West Ham track was "it was so big and wide I knew I could pass anywhere" and he invariably did except that occasion against the Stan Stevens. I never saw Mauger at Belle Vue but Briggo at West Ham had a dominance rarely seen in speedway

[customhouseregular]

I count myself very lucky to have seen most of my speedway at West Ham. There is not a track like it in Britain today. Yes, if the riders were strung out the races could be boring, but when the racing was close there was nothing to match it.