Will Ward Win A World Title Within The Next Five Years A Simple Yes Or No.?

[The White Knight]

I think Ward will win a World Championship some day.

 

He will need to work hard on his behaviour, attitude and fitness both mental and physical.

 

He has made a good start on his return to Racing - let's all hope it continues - should it do so, the sky is the limit for him.

 

Should he not - then he will be just another great Rider who has wasted his talent.

 

I am most definitely not a Ward Fan - but I sincerely hope that he does win the Championship as his undoubted talent indicates that he should do so.

[New Science]

Yes. Ward will win a world title, and probably more than one. Sayfutdinov, Ward, Woofinden, Janowski are the four most consistent young riders in the world, and it would be fitting reward if they were all to win World Titles.

You have to be in it to win it as they say.

[Paulco]

I think he's certainty to win one at least . The most naturally gifted rider in the sport at the moment

[customhouseregular]

I think he's certainty to win one at least . The most naturally gifted rider in the sport at the moment

More so than Emil.

[The White Knight]

I think he's certainty to win one at least . The most naturally gifted rider in the sport at the moment

 

 

More so than Emil.

He'll need to work for it though. Does he have the dedication and singlemindedness?

 

As for Emil - he isn't even in it sadly.

[Paulco]

More so than Emil.

I think so

[Grand Central]

People seem preoccupied by 'natural talent' in the DW debate.

I find it rather sterile.

 

Frankly, I have never subscribed to the view that someone like Ivan Mauger had less 'natural' talent than others.

 

It's as if 'natural talent' is some specific separate ability.

Different than the huge ability Ivan had.

I don't believe that.

 

Peter Collins being generally crap from the gate but brilliant from the back, somehow equates to natural ability.

Being brilliant from the gate, is not deemed natural ability.

That's just daft.

 

Everyone's natural ability has, ultimately, benefitted in realty from practice and applying themselves to it, rather single mindedly.
PC's 'natural ability' is recognised and respected because he was given the Hyde Road platform to practice it on, hone it on and display it on, week after week.

Just like Ivan did by applying himself to the very sensible aspect of Speedway racing known as 'gating'.

And he put in massive number of hours at Hyde Road over the years, just as PC and Mighty Mort did too.

 

Having watched Speedway at The Zoo from my first steps. I still think that Ivan is head and shoulders above anyone around that place.

He really was stunning in his day, better even than PC, Mort, and Briggo.

Its just that he didn't give people a 'head start' like the others.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Grand Central

[stratton]

People seem preoccupied by 'natural talent' in the DW debate.

I find it rather sterile.

 

Frankly, I have never subscribed to the view that someone like Ivan Mauger had less 'natural' talent than others.

 

It's as if 'natural talent' is some specific separate ability.

Different than the huge ability Ivan had.

I don't believe that.

 

Peter Collins being generally crap from the gate but brilliant from the back, somehow equates to natural ability.

Being brilliant from the gate, is not deemed natural ability.

That's just daft.

 

Everyone's natural ability has, ultimately, benefitted in realty from practice and applying themselves to it, rather single mindedly.

PC's 'natural ability' is recognised and respected because he was given the Hyde Road platform to practice it on, hone it on and display it on, week after week.

Just like Ivan did by applying himself to the very sensible aspect of Speedway racing known as 'gating'.

And he put in massive number of hours at Hyde Road over the years, just as PC and Mighty Mort did too.

 

Having watched Speedway at The Zoo from my first steps. I still think that Ivan is head and shoulders above anyone around that place.

He really was stunning in his day, better even than PC, Mort, and Briggo.

Its just that he didn't give people a 'head start' like the others.

He was not stunning around the zoo when Briggo won his six BLRC.?

[Grand Central]

He was not stunning around the zoo when Briggo won his six BLRC.?

 

 

Ah yes, you are quite right.

1965 to 1970.

Briggo won all those 6 BLRC; and just one world title.

Ivan didn't win a BLRC at all.

 

I think that Sprouts may be comforted by the three world titles that came his way during that time.

[stratton]

Ah yes, you are quite right.

1965 to 1970.

Briggo won all those 6 BLRC; and just one world title.

Ivan didn't win a BLRC at all.

 

I think that Sprouts may be comforted by the three world titles that came his way during that time.

Briggo was unlucky in 72 could of had five titles but i think to say Ivan was better than Barry at the zoo is stretching it a bit .Even in league meeting's Barry usually beat him up until 1972 and i would have a guess on my records head to head it was close but Barry beat Ivan more times including everything second halves ect).

[EnglishRoundabout]

Ward will win a. World title. I think you said in an earlier post Sidney that you think he is better than Leigh Adams even at this stage of his career? Not yet mate, no way. Adams was class, week in week out. Ward's not at that standard yet.

 

Give him a couple more years to mature (some take longer than others) and I predict Ward will achieve greatness and win successive world titles.

[sommelier]

Briggo was unlucky in 72 could of had five titles but i think to say Ivan was better than Barry at the zoo is stretching it a bit .Even in league meeting's Barry usually beat him up until 1972 and i would have a guess on my records head to head it was close but Barry beat Ivan more times including everything second halves ect).

Ivan for me every time, the ultimate professional, Mauger would plan his defence of the world championship as he left the stadium! Ivan would put EVERYTHING into that one night. meticulous detail

[stratton]

Ivan for me every time, the ultimate professional, Mauger would plan his defence of the world championship as he left the stadium! Ivan would put EVERYTHING into that one night. meticulous detail

You could well be right and the bloke was total class, but Central said he believed Mauger was a better rider at the great Hyde Rd than Briggo.I don't agree with that Hyde Rd suited Briggo down to the ground as the track suited his race style.Also around Belle Vue you have to put Craven, Olsen,Collins,Carter as greats around that great track.

[Grand Central]

Briggo was unlucky in 72 could of had five titles but i think to say Ivan was better than Barry at the zoo is stretching it a bit .Even in league meeting's Barry usually beat him up until 1972 and i would have a guess on my records head to head it was close but Barry beat Ivan more times including everything second halves ect).

 

You could well be right and the bloke was total class, but Central said he believed Mauger was a better rider at the great Hyde Rd than Briggo.I don't agree with that Hyde Rd suited Briggo down to the ground as the track suited his race style.Also around Belle Vue you have to put Craven, Olsen,Collins,Carter as greats around that great track.

 

 

Ah, I do love historical revisionism ... with a selective memory to cherry pick those that help one's argument.

 

So I shall enter into that just as freely..

 

No doubt that BB had his title hopes ended by Bernie Persson in that fateful incident that left him with such a ghastly injury.

But Ivan Mauger could easily claim that the same Persson character destroyed his chances in the 67 Final when he dumped Mauger on the first bend of Heat 18. And wily old Fundin was better able to deal with the pandemonium that delayed the rerun while they got Persson off the track after his protests.

 

Similarly BB himself was mightily lucky to be allowed to keep the 57 title when many thought he had caused Fundin to fall the in the run off.

Every modern day international ref would have had Briggs excluded.

 

Then there is the Belle Vue record.

In the period 1969 to 1972 - when I was watching and Ivan was an Ace - the head to head between BB and Ivan are interesting.

 

In league matches Ivan beat BB three times in the 69 match, they were one race each in the 1970 BL fixture (with Ivan also winning the second half final over BB) and in 1971 and 1972 neither appeared in a league match against each other at Hyde Road.

 

In the BLRCs over the same period, obviously Barry won the 69 and 70 events and Ivan 1971.

In 1969 Ivan beat Barry when they met (but Barry only needed a second to win) and that was reversed in 1971 when BB beat Ivan in their last race when Ivan had the title in the bag. In 1970 Ivan was excluded for tape breaking when they were due to meet.

 

History can be twisted any way one likes if you have a mind to do it.

Or could it just be that things were not quite how you thought Sid?

Edited August 20, 2015 by Grand Central

[waiheke1]

Would love to see the following in a meeting at Hyde rd:

Craven fundin Moore Briggs mauger Olsen Collins Carter gundersen Morton Nielsen j crump t Rick ward Emil and one of gollob/penhall/Parker.

 

Mauger Briggs and Olsen to be favourites narrowly ahead of craven Collins and Carter?

 

Would be interested to know who u ranked best around Hyde rd post mauger gc?

[Grand Central]

Well, by the late seventies family allegiences had switched to Halifax.

 

I know that many people regard KC as being a master of Hyde Road in his time.

And wearing my Dukes hat I would not put up too much resistance to that thought.

There is no doubt that at the 1981 BLRC he was in blistering form; but it feel he had rode even better in the league match there just before the World Final that year. We really did think he was peaking so that he could beat Bruicy.

 

No one can discount Peter Collins of course.

But It is just really difficult to decide though as Mighty Mort, always had my vote over PC.

 

Personally, I thought PC was probably one of the best guys ever around The Shay, actually.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Grand Central

[sommelier]

Would love to see the following in a meeting at Hyde rd:

Craven fundin Moore Briggs mauger Olsen Collins Carter gundersen Morton Nielsen j crump t Rick ward Emil and one of gollob/penhall/Parker.

 

Mauger Briggs and Olsen to be favourites narrowly ahead of craven Collins and Carter?

 

Would be interested to know who u ranked best around Hyde rd post mauger gc?

The thought of Gollob round hyde road!

[waiheke1]

Well, by the late seventies family allegiences had switched to Halifax.

 

I know that many people regard KC as being a master of Hyde Road in his time.

And wearing my Dukes hat I would not put up too much resistance to that thought.

There is no doubt that at the 1981 BLRC he was in blistering form; but it feel he had rode even better in the league match there just before the World Final that year. We really did think he was peaking so that he could beat Bruicy.

 

No one can discount Peter Collins of course.

But It is just really difficult to decide though as Mighty Mort, always had my vote over PC.

 

Personally, I thought PC was probably one of the best guys ever around The Shay, actually.

I only started going in 81 when pc was past his peak. Reckon I only saw him beat kc once at the Shay and once at Hyde rd, and dont think I missed an aces/dukes clash involving them from 81 on.

Mort must have had a 50/50 record against kc at Hyde rd, but don't think I ever saw him beat him at the Shay (or odsal).

[Grand Central]

I only started going in 81 when pc was past his peak. Reckon I only saw him beat kc once at the Shay and once at Hyde rd, and dont think I missed an aces/dukes clash involving them from 81 on.

Mort must have had a 50/50 record against kc at Hyde rd, but don't think I ever saw him beat him at the Shay (or odsal).

You are, no doubt, spot on with those recollections.

 

Assessing each has really to be done without much reference to head-to-head match ups as their peak form came at slightly different times.

 

Mort wasn't anything really that special at The Shay. But at Hyde Road he had an incredible ability to make up huge acres of ground on opponents, probably more than PC, in my rememberings. I saw him do it a lot in league matches but the Test Match in 1982 had a couple classics like that against top opposition.

 

Peter Collins was just excellent at a The Shay, and really infuriatingly, my memory tells me that he always seemed to reserve some of his best getting for there as well. But yes that was probably more in the time before KC became 'Number 1'.

[BWitcher]

Lars Munkedal.

 

King of Hyde Road 1987