sparkafag Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Reality is, statistics is all that matters. i.e. how much you win. ALL that matters, maybe to you, but not me. Give me a inform Gollob to watch over Hancock any day!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proud panther Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) Got to love a thread where the person who starts it ends up abusing anyone that differs to his opinion. Sidney is one crazy jumped up little man! Back to the thread i think all sensible people have the same opinion that Ward can win a world title but doubt he will. Firstly he is among the top 5 in the world but isnt as good as Tai at the moment. Poeple seem to think that raw talent and being able to make a pass means you are a better rider than someone who makes the gate and rarely gets passed. Tai Woffinden is simply a better rider than Darcy Ward. Its in Darcys hands if he applys himself he can do it but we all know he seems to struggle getting out of the semi finals and that costs him dear. Its rubbish about the theory he cant gate as he can and over a 12 round series he would be ok. The other factor is he would firstly struggle to beat Tai over 12 rounds and with good riders coming through like Magic , and the possibility of Emil coming back makes it harder. Edited August 18, 2015 by Gavan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz01 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think Darcy will win a world title at some point but I would bet on Tai and Holder winning more than the one they have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) ALL that matters, maybe to you, but not me. Give me a inform Gollob to watch over Hancock any day!! Totally irrelevant to the debate. I'd watch many many riders over Hancock, but it doesn't make them better than him. Hancock and Pedersen have won 3 world titles each. Gollob 1. History will remember Hancock and Pedersen as the better riders. On his day Gollob can be brilliant, with his amazing passes etc.. but on 'their day' Hancock and Pedersen don't get near to being passed.. they are away and gone. Regarding Darcy, he is good enough to win it, but so are a number of others. Time will tell. Edited August 18, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Whos fault is it he hasn't ridden in more? His and only his. If he knuckles down he MIGHT win a couple but personally i dont think he has learned anything from his mistakes so is liable to mess up again I am sure those words of encouragement are to be respected by us all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Totally irrelevant to the debate. I'd watch many many riders over Hancock, but it doesn't make them better than him. Hancock and Pedersen have won 3 world titles each. Gollob 1. History will remember Hancock and Pedersen as the better riders. On his day Gollob can be brilliant, with his amazing passes etc.. but on 'their day' Hancock and Pedersen don't get near to being passed.. they are away and gone. Regarding Darcy, he is good enough to win it, but so are a number of others. Time will If i live till i'm 100 i'll NEVER remember Hancock or Pedersen over Gollob! History or NOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Totally irrelevant to the debate. I'd watch many many riders over Hancock, but it doesn't make them better than him. Hancock and Pedersen have won 3 world titles each. Gollob 1. History will remember Hancock and Pedersen as the better riders. On his day Gollob can be brilliant, with his amazing passes etc.. but on 'their day' Hancock and Pedersen don't get near to being passed.. they are away and gone. Regarding Darcy, he is good enough to win it, but so are a number of others. Time will tell. 100% spot on. I would rather watch Gollob than Hancock but was he better rider? No he wasnt. Mark Loram is my all time favourite rider to watch but was he better than Rickardsson or Crump? No he wasnt If i live till i'm 100 i'll NEVER remember Hancock or Pedersen over Gollob! History or NOT! but of a strange response. I will remember Gollobs racing especially at Bydgoscz over probably any race that Hancock was involved in but in 50 years time if someone asks me who was the better rider it has to be Hancock or Pedersen there isnt an argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 If i live till i'm 100 i'll NEVER remember Hancock or Pedersen over Gollob! History or NOT! Again irrelevant. I will also remember Gollobs great rides years after I have forgotten Hancocks.. however Hancock and Pedersen are 3 time World Champs, competing in the same era pretty much as Gollob. I'm 100% sure if you asked Gollob if he would prefer 3 world titles or 1, he'd take the 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Again irrelevant. I will also remember Gollobs great rides years after I have forgotten Hancocks.. however Hancock and Pedersen are 3 time World Champs, competing in the same era pretty much as Gollob. I'm 100% sure if you asked Gollob if he would prefer 3 world titles or 1, he'd take the 3. Where do riders like Jack Young, Jack Milne, Peter Craven when we talk of great world champions. Or are their title successes now rated alongside the early 1930s world championships that were held in Paris, France? I did try a google to get an answer but without any luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Where do riders like Jack Young, Jack Milne, Peter Craven when we talk of great world champions. Or are their title successes now rated alongside the early 1930s world championships that were held in Paris, France? I did try a google to get an answer but without any luck! Personally I believe it's impossible to judge who was a 'better rider' when looking at totally different eras. You can only judge riders on their successes against their counterparts. You are far more qualified than me to discuss the merits of those riders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 In a way gustix raises an interesting point on your discussion with sommelier, Bwitcher. We know about riders like Jack Young, Jack Milne and Peter Craven because they were World Champions and had the record to prove how good they were. For all we know Cyclone Billy Lamont (for example) may well have been the most exciting rider of his era - or even of all time - but he is not as well remembered because he didn't get the results to go with it. The same will be true of Hancock over Gollob in 50 years time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) In a way gustix raises an interesting point on your discussion with sommelier, Bwitcher. We know about riders like Jack Young, Jack Milne and Peter Craven because they were World Champions and had the record to prove how good they were. For all we know Cyclone Billy Lamont (for example) may well have been the most exciting rider of his era - or even of all time - but he is not as well remembered because he didn't get the results to go with it. The same will be true of Hancock over Gollob in 50 years time. I agree, that is precisely the point I am making. Being exciting does not make you the best, it's a totally different thing. History remembers the winners. Edited August 18, 2015 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sommelier Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Again irrelevant. I will also remember Gollobs great rides years after I have forgotten Hancocks.. however Hancock and Pedersen are 3 time World Champs, competing in the same era pretty much as Gollob. I'm 100% sure if you asked Gollob if he would prefer 3 world titles or 1, he'd take the 3. OK is this RELEVANT, i've watched Ward 9 times from his ban, & one in Sweden. even i have been blown away just how good he as come back. Within 6 rides on a technical track like Wolverhampton he gets the track reckord, speaks volumes. Is he good enough to be world champion, i believe he is. Do i think he is as good as Tai, ability yes, the complete package NO. Tai i think works harder in all departments & for me Tai is a long way in front of Ward with the team he has around him. Jacko & adams makes it a formidable team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavan Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I agree, that is precisely the point I am making. Being exciting does not make you the best, it's a totally different thing. History remembers the winners. Again totally spot on. Because Ward is gifted, talented and great to watch when coming from the back it doesnt make him any better than a Hancock or even a Hampel type rider. These exciting 'bums on seats' riders tend to have there great day but no consistency as such. Peter Collins , Michael Lee, Mark Loram, Jan O'Pedersen, Billy Hamill Tomasz Gollob all one off world champions and probably in a lot of peoples top ten of most exciting riders they have ever seen. Were they better than Nielsen, Penhall, Gundersen, Rickardsson and Crump? No but they were more exciting to watch. Darcy Ward will be remembered as great on the track if he wins a world title otherwise he is just another very good rider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Where do riders like Jack Young, Jack Milne, Peter Craven when we talk of great world champions. Or are their title successes now rated alongside the early 1930s world championships that were held in Paris, France? I did try a google to get an answer but without any luck! As times move on gustix, the memory of these great old Riders sadly decrease. No one can ever take away the Honours that they won in our Sport though - and a lot of their names are etched high in the Speedway firmament. Thankfully there are Record Books - so in that sense they will never be forgotten. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Got to love a thread where the person who starts it ends up abusing anyone that differs to his opinion. Sidney is one crazy jumped up little man! Back to the thread i think all sensible people have the same opinion that Ward can win a world title but doubt he will. Firstly he is among the top 5 in the world but isnt as good as Tai at the moment. Poeple seem to think that raw talent and being able to make a pass means you are a better rider than someone who makes the gate and rarely gets passed. Tai Woffinden is simply a better rider than Darcy Ward. Its in Darcys hands if he applys himself he can do it but we all know he seems to struggle getting out of the semi finals and that costs him dear. Its rubbish about the theory he cant gate as he can and over a 12 round series he would be ok. The other factor is he would firstly struggle to beat Tai over 12 rounds and with good riders coming through like Magic , and the possibility of Emil coming back makes it harder. God more of your drivel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 OK is this RELEVANT, i've watched Ward 9 times from his ban, & one in Sweden. even i have been blown away just how good he as come back. Within 6 rides on a technical track like Wolverhampton he gets the track reckord, speaks volumes. Is he good enough to be world champion, i believe he is. Do i think he is as good as Tai, ability yes, the complete package NO. Tai i think works harder in all departments & for me Tai is a long way in front of Ward with the team he has around him. Jacko & adams makes it a formidable team. I don't disagree with any of that. Ward rides Monmore as well as any rider I have ever seen there. Totally agree that Tai has the whole package put together, which I do believe Darcy will sort in time too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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