The White Knight Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Well I know 10 who have started going since the TR rule was introduced. So that scuppers you. Well - why am I not surprised. :rolleyes: I got out of the 'mine's bigger than your's' thing in Primary School BW - I'm surprised at you. You will, of course, get another 'Like' from your acolyte orion no doubt. That may be some consolation for you. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 I hope you will inwardly digest this orion. It might help if you stopped attempting to prove something that isn't true. Just trying to help. Yet again you miss the point ....most of time like you when you look deeper you quickly find out that was not the reason at all ...as many have said you are a prime example of that . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Yet again you miss the point ....most of time like you when you look deeper you quickly find out that was not the reason at all ...as many have said you are a prime example of that . So you can look deeper in to me than I can myself can you? Very odd, very very odd. Oh - I see you got a like from BW on that one - now there's a surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Oh - I see you got a like from BW on that one - now there's a surprise. Says the man who holds the record for likes on one persons posts on here ..and wrote a open love letter begging that person to be his friend ...the irony . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 Says the man who holds the record for likes on one persons posts on here ..and wrote a open love letter begging that person to be his friend ...the irony . You really are a funny man - in more ways than one. :rofl: :rofl: I don't sacrifice friends easily orion. Tsunami and I had a disagreement - if I remember correctly I was wrong - I apologised that was it. Perhaps if more people on here apologised when they were wrong this Forum might, just might be a better place. Why I am explaining myself to you of all people - I really don't know. Never mind though - you'll soon be back at School. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HagueyUK Posted August 17, 2015 Report Share Posted August 17, 2015 There seems to be many problems with the way speedway is progressing in this country at the moment, in so many areas. But let us not forget that we are all speedway fans, and that is the reason we are on this forum. Whether people agree/disagree with posts or threads etc, we are all on here for the same reason. My view is the fans don't seem to be listened to. Find out what the fans want, find a way to make it happen. Simple. Find out why people are not going anymore to speedway, find a way to sort that problem out. Phil's article has surely got people talking and thinking about it, and that is a good thing. Disagree, argue, moan, vent etc, but always come back round to what it boils down to. Passion for our sport, and if you've got passion you care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadster Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 There's no doubt the sport is in a hole at the moment, but whether it's in a bigger hole than it was in the late 50s is open to question. Yet within 10 years the fortunes of the sport had been transformed. So change is possible but I'd suggest it needs clarity of thought and unity amongst the promoters. Chris Louis last week put forward his ideas to develop new riders, which is vital in the long term but there needs to be action in the short term so these new riders will have tracks on which to display their talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 There are still some who don't grasp just how unfair the old tac sub system actually was. Look no further than tonights meeting in Sweden. Dackarna the better side throughout, never led by more than 8. They were hit by tactical subsitutions bringing in Chris Holder, then Darcy Ward, then Piotr Pawlicki. They lose 44-46. Yes, it gave more tactical options, but it was and still is way, way more unfair than the current system in the UK is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 There are still some who don't grasp just how unfair the old tac sub system actually was. Look no further than tonights meeting in Sweden. Dackarna the better side throughout, never led by more than 8. They were hit by tactical subsitutions bringing in Chris Holder, then Darcy Ward, then Piotr Pawlicki. They lose 44-46. Yes, it gave more tactical options, but it was and still is way, way more unfair than the current system in the UK is. it the type of crazy thing that happened all the time ...but people are somehow worried about one rider taking a double points ride when your 10 behind ..Madness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 There's no doubt the sport is in a hole at the moment, but whether it's in a bigger hole than it was in the late 50s is open to question. Yet within 10 years the fortunes of the sport had been transformed. The whole environment is different to the 50s. There's far more alternative forms of entertainment, working patterns have changed, and peoples' expectations about going to a sporting contest are different. Even the riders have other options, and the whole concept of team racing has been brought into question as a result. You only have to look at the SGP. You have 16 of arguably the world's best riders taking place in the best stadia the sport can offer (which admittedly is not saying much), and yet the series is still a poor relation in comparison to many other sports. If you can't make that a big success, then what hope a domestic meeting taking place on a dank cold October evening? Yes, it gave more tactical options, but it was and still is way, way more unfair than the current system in the UK is. For me, the tactical substitute concept was fine (although somewhat unique to speedway), but they should only have been allowed when a team was 8 or even 10 points down. In other words, when a team is at least two heats behind level pegging. I think the rule actually was 8 points for a couple of a seasons during the 'one big league' BPL, which I felt provided most of the most enjoyable speedway of my speedway watching career (albeit unsustainable for a number of tracks). The major flaw with the tactical ride is that you're somewhat restricted to using it in the heats where your best riders are programmed, whereas tactical subs could be introduced in any heat. However, a tactical sub could still only score regular points, so for me had more credibility as a 'keeping the scores close' contrivance. Maybe tactical substitutions should also have been limited to just one or two, but in practical terms you rarely saw more than that anyway unless there were injuries in the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Agree with all of that HA. 6 definitely too low, although it didn't ever bother me back in the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadster Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) The whole environment is different to the 50s. There's far more alternative forms of entertainment, working patterns have changed, and peoples' expectations about going to a sporting contest are different. For me, the tactical substitute concept was fine (although somewhat unique to speedway), but they should only have been allowed when a team was 8 or even 10 points down. In other words, when a team is at least two heats behind level pegging. I think the rule actually was 8 points for a couple of a seasons during the 'one big league' BPL, which I felt provided most of the most enjoyable speedway of my speedway watching career (albeit unsustainable for a number of tracks). You're totally correct about the differences between the 50s and the present. The point I wanted to make, but didn't emphasise strongly enough, was the need for clarity of thought and unity amongst promoters. In fact the big change in the 60s was brought about after chronic rivalry and division but it required an outside agency, the Shawcross report, to bring them about. We could do without that brinkmanship now. I also enjoyed the two seasons of one big league but always felt that certain promoters were unconvinced that it was the right way to go and did not do enough to make it work in terms of releasing riders etc. I still think it's the best way forward for the sport giving consistency of fixtures and different opposition every week but to make it work every promoter needs to be convinced by it and it would probably mean 6 man teams to get round the rider shortage. Edited August 19, 2015 by Chadster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 IN SS this week a number of suggestions put forward for thought and discussion plus a rare interview with BSPA Chairman Alex Harkess... in the next few weeks will be trawling the bsf and elsewhere for sensible and objective comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 IN SS this week a number of suggestions put forward for thought and discussion plus a rare interview with BSPA Chairman Alex Harkess... in the next few weeks will be trawling the bsf and elsewhere for sensible and objective comments Hmmm.. that should fill about a paragraph, even with the comments of the BSPA Chairman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Hmmm.. that should fill about a paragraph, even with the comments of the BSPA Chairman. DO you include yourself in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 DO you include yourself in that? I doubt my views on certain things in the sport would set the right tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 ON the contrary. While I don't agree with many of your views, especially regarding the SGP and IMG's involvement, you make some valid points about domestic speedway that are worthy of consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 All the tinkering in the world won't solve the basic problem of getting people in the stadiums in the first place. Radical solution. In 2016 all clubs charge maximum of a tenner, if riders don't like the pay cut let them ride off into Sweden/Poland/BSI for a season. Combine it with an extreme sport type advertising campaign that can be honed to each track and then hopefully You have to get folk to come back. Best suggestion I have for that is get Rory Schlien to write "The Way Forward" not promoters who have been there, done it and failed miserably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 All the tinkering in the world won't solve the basic problem of getting people in the stadiums in the first place. Radical solution. In 2016 all clubs charge maximum of a tenner, if riders don't like the pay cut let them ride off into Sweden/Poland/BSI for a season. Combine it with an extreme sport type advertising campaign that can be honed to each track and then hopefully You have to get folk to come back. Best suggestion I have for that is get Rory Schlien to write "The Way Forward" not promoters who have been there, done it and failed miserably. But that is not the issue, as I have said repeatedly. Anyone with an ounce of advertising nous could fill a stadium once, even just using the free entry route. The thing is once they are in they must have an evening that tempts them to come back at the usual cost, be that a fiver, tenner or whatever. Lakeside had 5000 for the free entry, lots were of course existing fans, but they are now back to one man and a dog. Worse still you will never get another chance with any of those that came and thought it was crap, people may come once based on what you tell them but show them a poor product and you will never get another chance. If the product is hemorrhaging existing customers, customers who have been with you for decades with an obvious affinity for the sport but no longer want to go what chance of keeping the casual observer. Make it an evening worth watching, not just the racing, thats only a small part of it, the whole package needs to be vibrant. Then on a SKY night let people in for a fiver maybe and pack the place. Make sure everyone there has a good night, it will look like a good night to the TV viewers and they may be tempted along. At the moment if you happen to channel hop to the speedway on SKY it just screams "nothing to see here, keep moving" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted August 20, 2015 Report Share Posted August 20, 2015 That's why I suggested Rory Schlien get involved. Anyone who went to his testimonial will tell you it was So far above what passes for an evening at speedway nowadays it was a totally different product. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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