Vincent Blachshadow Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 Exactly. Which is the opposite of what you posted earlier. Really? How exactly? I've been saying all along people make choices and, back to the thread, (some) are leaving speedway because they no longer feel the sport is for them - people can embrace the changes (keep going) or ditch the product (stop attending). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted August 14, 2015 Report Share Posted August 14, 2015 ......cityrebel....... The silly rules I can accept, but the unnecessary delays I cannot. Whether this is an age thing or not I don't know. I think you're right there - in my case anyway. I'm not really interested in statistics or rules etc., but find as I've got older sun breaks and seeing more laps by tractors than speedway bikes is annoying. We had to wait for 40 minutes earlier in the season for the Kings Lynn v Coventry match to start due to the sun. It might have been up there in the sky but it was still bitterly cold hanging around as it was very windy. What with that and other delays during the match I won't be in a hurry to go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Really? How exactly? I've been saying all along people make choices and, back to the thread, (some) are leaving speedway because they no longer feel the sport is for them - people can embrace the changes (keep going) or ditch the product (stop attending). Again forgetting that thousands had left before any changes had been made. You said it! I suggested the standard of the stadiums could possibly be an issue, sadly one of the cleverest forum members completely blew that theory out of the water because F1 fans are happy on a grass bank and music festival fans are happy in a field. I'm not convinced myself, but I did notice that since the recommendations of the Taylor Report have filtered through to lower league football teams their attendances have increased by nearly 50% without changing the product. Thank goodness the bsf experts know better eh? As for where does the money come from. Well if you know what you're doing you get someone else to provide the cash up front. Belle Vue's new stadium has been financed by the council and even Stockport County, a former league team now playing in a part time semi pro league have got the council to buy their ground for them. If those two hopeless causes can do it anyone can! Still concocting your own version of threads again I see Drop a Cog. I said that it HAD AN EFFECT. Do you understand those words? I then stated but not as big as SOME might think. The more you try and be clever, the more you trip yourself up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulS Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 It has to be said that there is an element who would be attracted to the sport by the prospect of crashes, I have been witness to that after speaking to people who were going to see a meeting for the first time. Perhaps this image could be used in the right way, showing spectacular crashes (albeit ones where riders get up and walk away) with passing sequences in a montage and stick it on sky and give it to all the teams to promote it in their areas. I respect you're offering suggestions on how to promote Speedway, however crashes cannot ever be welcomed and often just leave new fans questioining who is turning up for my injured rider today. As you suggest it is great to see riders walk away unscathed from spectacular crashes. But I would rather show new fans some heats of exciting racing where no riders got hurt. I think you're right there - in my case anyway. I'm not really interested in statistics or rules etc., but find as I've got older sun breaks and seeing more laps by tractors than speedway bikes is annoying. We had to wait for 40 minutes earlier in the season for the Kings Lynn v Coventry match to start due to the sun. It might have been up there in the sky but it was still bitterly cold hanging around as it was very windy. What with that and other delays during the match I won't be in a hurry to go back. I would like to think sun delays etc. could be resolved by shades or tinted visors, however from previous delays I think I understand it's not that simple? Clearly sun delays are an action for promotions to assess and see if anything needs to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Speedway should be advertised as a nasty dangerous sport with danger and thrills paramount.not a friendly happy product .those days have long gone I could see that working,,, especially in todays society, could be onto something there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Again forgetting that thousands had left before any changes had been made. Yes, ok, there had been a downturn in attendances from the absolute post-war heyday but, for a few years, these attendances did stabilise at a far higher figure than they are now. But from the relative stability of the 70s and 80s these attendances have dropped by thousands to the current few hundred at your average meeting. I would imagine there are several reasons why these attendances have dropped but dislike of current rules can't be discounted as a reason. It would be interesting to know how current forum members were introduced to speedway, because, among the people I chat to at meetings, most were introduced by relatives (parents usually) or friends who attended. If these relatives or friends are lost to the sport then the introductions won't happen and crowds will decline further. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) ...to when thousands attended the average speedway match rather than the few hundred who attend now. Weird that. But yes, it's easier for the promoter to ask the few who go now why they still go rather than the countless thousands that no longer do. Why do think they stopped thou rules ? why do you think they don't bring them back ? Maybe shops should bring back VCR'S as they used to be popular . If a old fan does not go back because of the double points rule but went when the tac sub rule was about then there not worth worrying about as there view can be discounted Edited August 15, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 Yes, ok, there had been a downturn in attendances from the absolute post-war heyday but, for a few years, these attendances did stabilise at a far higher figure than they are now. But from the relative stability of the 70s and 80s these attendances have dropped by thousands to the current few hundred at your average meeting. I would imagine there are several reasons why these attendances have dropped but dislike of current rules can't be discounted as a reason. It would be interesting to know how current forum members were introduced to speedway, because, among the people I chat to at meetings, most were introduced by relatives (parents usually) or friends who attended. If these relatives or friends are lost to the sport then the introductions won't happen and crowds will decline further. The big drop off was in the mid 80's to late 90's. Long before any of the maligned rules. Totally agree with your second paragraph, that's where speedway has become lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) Why do think they stopped thou rules ? why do you think they don't bring them back ? Maybe shops should bring back VCR'S as they used to be popular . If a old fan does not go back because of the double points rule but went when the tac sub rule was about then there not worth worrying about . For heaven's sake, get off of this t/s v t/r fixation. One or two, maybe more, have left because of that specific rule but others have left because of their dislike for the guest rule (it was ok at one a meeting, but three and r/r may be over the top for them), riders able to ride for two or three British teams......As for 'not worth worrying about', well, ask the promoters if they're happy with current attendances. I'm a firm believer that you're more likely to re-convert somebody who used to go than get somebody with no current interest, And on your point about bringing back the VCR, I have already posted that the VCR has been superseded by superior products. 70's, 80's and maybe 90's speedway, in many peoples' views, has not. Edited August 15, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) For heaven's sake, get off of this t/s v t/r fixation. One or two, maybe more, have left because of that specific rule but others have left because of their dislike for the guest rule (it was ok at one a meeting, but three and r/r may be over the top for them), riders able to ride for two or three British teams......As for 'not worth worrying about', well, ask the promoters if they're happy with current attendances. I'm a firm believer that you're more likely to re-convert somebody who used to go than get somebody with no current interest, And on your point about bringing back the VCR, I have already posted that the VCR has been superseded by superior products. 70's, 80's and maybe 90's speedway, in many peoples' views, has not. The convo that had nothing to do with you was about the ts and tr and why a person left the sport ...as I said if that was the reason why then is nothing you can do ....as I ask you before if thou rules were good and so superior why were they got got rid off and why don't bring they back them . Edited August 15, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 The convo that had nothing to do with you was about the ts and tr and why a person left the sport ...as I said if that was the reason why then is nothing you can do ....as I ask you before if thou rules were good and so superior why were they got got rid off and why don't bring they back them . Financial reasons. The t/r is cheaper than the t/s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 But the fan who has stopped going because of the tr does so because its "unfair." But went for 30 years with the ts rule, which was used more often and with greater advantage to the losing team,meaning it altered far more results. I suspect orions point is that if someone is using such irrational logic, it is hard to argue that promoters take that view seriously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) Financial reasons. The t/r is cheaper than the t/s. That can't be right ? because the crowds walk away because of the rules so we get told ...surely if you bring them back it would paid for itself using your logic . Edited August 15, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) That can't be right ? because the crowds walk away because of the rules so we get told ...surely if you bring them back it would paid for itself using your logic . Oh, if only everything in life was that simple!. The big drop off was in the mid 80's to late 90's. Long before any of the maligned rules. I actually though the first year or two of the Elite League had decent crowds. Maybe not massive but enough for fairly comfortable survival. Edited August 15, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shale Searcher Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 (edited) Dad, first meeting, although moving to a house around 700 yards from the stadium was probably the catalyst!! I was around 6, maybe 7 years old, the year was 1970 or 1971... The stadium was Blackbird Road, Leicester.. Originally thought it would be dogs on bikes, as the first visit was for a dogs meeting!!!! Edited August 15, 2015 by Shale Searcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 I respect you're offering suggestions on how to promote Speedway, however crashes cannot ever be welcomed and often just leave new fans questioining who is turning up for my injured rider today. As you suggest it is great to see riders walk away unscathed from spectacular crashes. But I would rather show new fans some heats of exciting racing where no riders got hurt. I agree with you there. In fact my Dad who had introduced me to Speedway at the age of 8 stopped going eventually because he didn't like to see crashes. I would like to think sun delays etc. could be resolved by shades or tinted visors, however from previous delays I think I understand it's not that simple? Clearly sun delays are an action for promotions to assess and see if anything needs to be done. What did they do in the past as I don't think the sun is any different today but I can't remember there ever being any 'sun breaks' and I've been going since 1949. Going back to that Kings Lynn match with the 40 minute delay before it started. In the heat before the scheduled interval Neils took out Chris and Danny on the 2nd bend so there had to be a delay while they sorted their bikes out. Now surely the sensible thing to do would be to just bring forward the interval but no we had to wait for that race to start and then there was an interval afterwards. It's just things like that. Bah!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted August 15, 2015 Report Share Posted August 15, 2015 The convo that had nothing to do with you was about the ts and tr and why a person left the sport ...as I said if that was the reason why then is nothing you can do ....as I ask you before if thou rules were good and so superior why were they got got rid off and why don't bring they back them . And there was me thinking this is a public forum where any member is entitled to contribute on any thread without asking permission from the poster they're replying to. And my initial post on this thread was in answer to a post claiming TWK must be the only person to have left the sport because of a rule when I know at least two others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 And there was me thinking this is a public forum where any member is entitled to contribute on any thread without asking permission from the poster they're replying to. And my initial post on this thread was in answer to a post claiming TWK must be the only person to have left the sport because of a rule when I know at least two others. I hope you will inwardly digest this orion. It might help if you stopped attempting to prove something that isn't true. Just trying to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 I hope you will inwardly digest this orion. It might help if you stopped attempting to prove something that isn't true. Just trying to help. Well I know 10 who have started going since the TR rule was introduced. So that scuppers you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted August 16, 2015 Report Share Posted August 16, 2015 (edited) Well I know 10 who have started going since the TR rule was introduced. So that scuppers you. Yeah, I know of one who's started going in the last few years too. Unfortunately, those eleven don't make up for the couple of thousand or so who have stopped going this century (for whatever reason). Edited August 16, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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