Speedway Star Item

[BWitcher]

He relies on phrases like "going off in a huff" or "throwing toys out of pram" because he can't realise that people aren't interested in feeding his ego, or more likely relieving his bordeom, by getting into one of his 'debates' which in fact are nothing of the sort. He just looks for everything he can dispute, picking petty holes and claiming it's intelligent debate.

 

Then when people quite naturally walk away in disgust he uses his stock phrases to try to belittle them.

 

Sometimes I feel like taking him off block and turning him inside out because I could if I could be bothered. I'm not. I prefer speedway to provoking arguments which must then be 'won'. It's sad really. Anyway, time to think of the sport and not sad figures like him. He makes no contribution to the sport or this forum.

 

Now, regarding speedway, I suspect realisation is finally beginning to dawn that the sport as it is currently constituted form is coming to the end of its life. It will live on, as it usually does but financial reality will eventually arrive. The sport in Britain has to be reconstituted as a semi-pro sport which owes nobody a living and where outgoings are kept below income.

If certain riders and name-obsessed supporters are lost then so be it, as long as the changes give us a sustainable base from which the sport can be re-grown. We have to offer a value for money night (ir afternoon) out, with a regular fixture list and credible teams. We need to find new talent and give them a sport they can afford to compete in. We need to take the appalling strain out of the sport. I've worked at a dying track and know just how much strain is created.

 

British speedway is exhausted in trying to find dates on which to race, finding the money to pay the riders, desperately finding a way to win and keep a crowd. No wonder there's no forward thinking, survival is the only consideration.

 

We need to re-shape the sport on a cheaper basis, but most of all it once more needs to be fun - for ALL.

 

But what would I know, it's the likes of BWitcher who have all the answers.......don't they?

 

I don't have to rely on phrases at all, because folk like you do go off in a huff.

 

I have no ego, hence I'll debate with anyone and not 'refuse' to post once my opinion is questioned.

 

Folks with egos are the ones when as soon as their opinion is questioned, immediately claim the other person only wants to be right and refuses to post again. Basically, doing the precise thing they are whinging about.

 

On the other thread I stated that the issues regarding Tactical Rides/Guests etc were not the cause of the dropping attendances in speedway. You and tmc refused to believe this and indeed, went off in a huff.

 

Why did you do this? Not because of any name calling, not because of any stock phrases.. quite simply because it was pointed out, with EVIDENCE that what you were saying was incorrect. Now you could have chosen to counter the argument but instead decided to hurl some insults and the refuse to post again.. something you have done on numerous occasions before.

 

As for 'turning me inside out'.. I look forward to that day. That would require you to act like an adult long enough to hold a rational debate, past history has shown that you are absolutely incapable of doing that.

 

Now here we are on this thread and TMC has cited the reason the Speedway Mail closed was due to dropping attendances.... a long time before any of the issues you've banging on about had cropped up.

[orion]

Spot on ...the moment some one never went with what they said they storm off in a huff . People use terms like that because it was true

[The White Knight]

 

I don't have to rely on phrases at all, because folk like you do go off in a huff.

 

I have no ego, hence I'll debate with anyone and not 'refuse' to post once my opinion is questioned.

 

Folks with egos are the ones when as soon as their opinion is questioned, immediately claim the other person only wants to be right and refuses to post again. Basically, doing the precise thing they are whinging about.

 

On the other thread I stated that the issues regarding Tactical Rides/Guests etc were not the cause of the dropping attendances in speedway. You and tmc refused to believe this and indeed, went off in a huff.

 

Why did you do this? Not because of any name calling, not because of any stock phrases.. quite simply because it was pointed out, with EVIDENCE that what you were saying was incorrect. Now you could have chosen to counter the argument but instead decided to hurl some insults and the refuse to post again.. something you have done on numerous occasions before.

 

As for 'turning me inside out'.. I look forward to that day. That would require you to act like an adult long enough to hold a rational debate, past history has shown that you are absolutely incapable of doing that.

 

Now here we are on this thread and TMC has cited the reason the Speedway Mail closed was due to dropping attendances.... a long time before any of the issues you've banging on about had cropped up.

You are wrong I'm afraid BW.

 

Speedway Support has dropped by at least ONE (because of the Tactical Ride) - me.

 

So that makes Tony Mac and rmc correct.

 

As I have said before - I know there are more than just me. That, however, is for the other Thread.

Edited August 10, 2015 by The White Knight

[Fromafar]

He relies on phrases like "going off in a huff" or "throwing toys out of pram" because he can't realise that people aren't interested in feeding his ego, or more likely relieving his bordeom, by getting into one of his 'debates' which in fact are nothing of the sort. He just looks for everything he can dispute, picking petty holes and claiming it's intelligent debate.

 

Then when people quite naturally walk away in disgust he uses his stock phrases to try to belittle them.

 

Sometimes I feel like taking him off block and turning him inside out because I could if I could be bothered. I'm not. I prefer speedway to provoking arguments which must then be 'won'. It's sad really. Anyway, time to think of the sport and not sad figures like him. He makes no contribution to the sport or this forum.

 

Now, regarding speedway, I suspect realisation is finally beginning to dawn that the sport as it is currently constituted form is coming to the end of its life. It will live on, as it usually does but financial reality will eventually arrive. The sport in Britain has to be reconstituted as a semi-pro sport which owes nobody a living and where outgoings are kept below income.

If certain riders and name-obsessed supporters are lost then so be it, as long as the changes give us a sustainable base from which the sport can be re-grown. We have to offer a value for money night (ir afternoon) out, with a regular fixture list and credible teams. We need to find new talent and give them a sport they can afford to compete in. We need to take the appalling strain out of the sport. I've worked at a dying track and know just how much strain is created.

 

British speedway is exhausted in trying to find dates on which to race, finding the money to pay the riders, desperately finding a way to win and keep a crowd. No wonder there's no forward thinking, survival is the only consideration.

 

We need to re-shape the sport on a cheaper basis, but most of all it once more needs to be fun - for ALL.

 

But what would I know, it's the likes of BWitcher who have all the answers.......don't they?

I agree regarding your summery of Speedway in UK.Realisation is finally dawning regarding the financial side of the sport.

[orion]

You are wrong I'm afraid BW.

 

Speedway Support has dropped by at least ONE (because of the Tactical Ride) - me.

 

So that makes Tony Mac and rmc correct.

 

As I have said before - I know there are more than just me. That, however, is for the other Thread.

Yet again untrue as you went when there was the Tac sub ...so as I said before you were lying to yourself

[BWitcher]

You are wrong I'm afraid BW.

 

Speedway Support has dropped by at least ONE (because of the Tactical Ride) - me.

 

So that makes Tony Mac and rmc correct.

 

As I have said before - I know there are more than just me. That, however, is for the other Thread.

 

Of course it is. Bless.

 

Except you were attending the sport for years after it was introduced.

 

As regards this thread, the more the sport cuts the quality and the costs, the more fans walk away, the more money clubs lose. Yet year after year we hear the same thing.. lets cut the costs!

 

Carry on doing it, there'll be nothing left to cut.

[Fromafar]

Of course it is. Bless.

 

Except you were attending the sport for years after it was introduced.

 

As regards this thread, the more the sport cuts the quality and the costs, the more fans walk away, the more money clubs lose. Yet year after year we hear the same thing.. lets cut the costs!

 

Carry on doing it, there'll be nothing left to cut.

Its easy to say that when it's not your money going down the tubes.

[ch958]

 

Of course it is. Bless.

 

Except you were attending the sport for years after it was introduced.

 

As regards this thread, the more the sport cuts the quality and the costs, the more fans walk away, the more money clubs lose. Yet year after year we hear the same thing.. lets cut the costs!

 

Carry on doing it, there'll be nothing left to cut.

 

ok what then? Open yourself up to the ridicule and scorn you pour on others

 

besides i wouldnt necessarily assume that racing is worse without big stars - more mistakes are made and the racing could actually be less predictable

I've only ever watched 2nd div racing in the main - i ve never craved EL/D1 racing

also a good chunk of the cost cutting would have to come via machinery costs not just cutting riders expenses although as ive said many times, the idea of flying people round Europe to ride in front of three figure crowds is madness

Edited August 10, 2015 by ch958

[orion]

Its easy to say that when it's not your money going down the tubes.

But cutting costs has been putting money down the tubes that is the whole point ..each year cut costs weaken teams so less and less crowds come ...in the end your not cutting costs at all . No good doing the same things we have been doing for the last 20 years

[Fromafar]

But cutting costs has been putting money down the tubes that is the whole point ..each year cut costs weaken teams so less and less crowds come ...in the end your not cutting costs at all . No good doing the same things we have been doing for the last 20 years

My point is that it is too late for a lot of Promotions they have payed the price for trying to outdo each other rather than work together for the good of the sport.the money has ran out!! So Promoters are wanting out in a lot of cases.

[Humphrey Appleby]

No Humph, I wish I could blame the Mail's demise from the early 90s on being critical of the sport's hierarchy.

Which suggests that the Star could have been more vocal in his criticism.

 

3. Ever-rising production costs that caused us to downgrade production quality.

What was it that was raising the production costs? I'd have thought that the advent of DTP should have made things cheaper, at least once the initial investment had been made.

[TonyMac]

Which suggests that the Star could have been more vocal in his criticism.

 

 

What was it that was raising the production costs? I'd have thought that the advent of DTP should have made things cheaper, at least once the initial investment had been made.

 

This was before the benefits of DTP had really kicked in. And besides, we had no capital to invest in new equipment at that time.

 

So we gambled.

 

The costly leap from tabloid newspaper to full colour gloss early in the 1987 season turned out to be an expensive mistake, because the sport was about to fall into another sharp decline, resulting in the closure of tracks like Hackney, Wimbledon, Canterbury, where we sold a relatively good number of copies, and others over the next few years.

 

In hindsight, instead of trying to compete with Speedway Star by going A4 (ish) and looking more colourful on the outside covers, we should have retained the original cheap-and-cheerful format, or perhaps improved the feel and look of the paper in a less expensive way (coloured newspaper?). In might not have been the long-term answer, but it would have kept us in business for longer.

 

Higher bank interest rates and soaring mortgage rates in the early 90s was another massive blow to a tiny independent publisher. Our £20k overdraft (to help fund the production upgrade and extra staff) was withdrawn overnight, the rug pulled from under us, by an unsympathetic new bank manager. My partner John and I (foolishly) had given personal guarantees to the bank, so had to pay back to them £8k each after being forced into liquidation. It sounds a paltry amount now but it wasn't in 1990, with young kids, a wife and mortgage to support.

 

I don't want this to look like a sob story, I'm just pointing out circumstances as they were largely dictated by speedway's decline around that period. in truth, we could see the writing on the wall for speedway and I'd lost a lot of enthusiasm for it. In the late 80s we diversified into football and contract publishing, producing official publications for West Ham (we launched Hammers News in '87), and also the newsprint editions of Ice Hockey Today and The Jewish Tribune, with the Mail only covering part of our overheads.

 

Even some 10 years before the Internet, there wasn't a market for two weekly trade (printed) publications in British speedway and I can't imagine there ever will be again.

 

I don't recall being banned by any tracks over any criticism in print (well, not for long, if at all), and I'd always encourage Tony Barnard, in particular, to be forthright, probing and inquisitive of the powers that be. As well as being a 'voice of the people', if you like, I think he gained a lot of respect from many people inside the sport for taking that approach, while others were more elusive, which suggests he must have been probing uncomfortably in the right areas!

 

To be fair to the Star, they were very critical of the way the sport was run for many years. If you care to dig out old issues going back to the late 70s, and throughout the 80s and 90s, they repeatedly questioned the actions (or inactions) of SCB, BSPA, FIM, etc, and many of their most strident editorials back then could be re-hashed and still hold the same validity if re-printed today. Both trade publications would regularly bang on about farcical manipulation of the rulebook; over-use of guests; points limits; more and more meaningless FIM meetings decimating the British fixture list; British riders treating big UK meetings with disdain; lack of a structured youth development programme; rising equipment costs; no possible solutions to rain-offs; too many foreign imports, promoters' lack of foresight and investment . . . we could go on and on - and we did.

 

All of which underlines how speedway has failed to learn from its historical mistakes and, also, some of the thinks it did get right. (Hey! have we just stumbled on an idea for Backtrack!)

 

Perhaps, like many of us, they became fed up banging their heads against the wall?

Edited August 10, 2015 by tmc

[Humphrey Appleby]

In hindsight, instead of trying to compete with Speedway Star by going A4 (ish)

What was that odd format used for the Mail? Wider than A4, but less tall from memory.

 

Still got a lot of them up in the loft.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[TonyMac]

What was that odd format used for the Mail? Wider than A4, but less tall from memory.

 

Still got a lot of them up in the loft.

 

From memory, think it was 'B4' - or 'American B4' - size.

 

The thinking behind it was, it would usually be placed in front of the Star in newsagents and in track shops. Obviously worked a treat!

[The White Knight]

Yet again untrue as you went when there was the Tac sub ...so as I said before you were lying to yourself

You just don't get it do you?

 

The bloody Tactical Ride drove me away from Speedway - is that plain enough for you. I can't spell it out any clearer, I have made it as simple as I can so that, hopefully, even you can understand.

 

I was/am NOT lying to myself - I have stated that I did not like, or agree with the Tactical Substitute but I put up with it.

 

I have also stated that I hate and detest the Tactical Ride which is as close to legal cheating as you can get. I finally got so fed up with it I walked away.

 

So YES orion - the Tactical Ride has cost Speedway at least ONE supporter and probably many more who don't come on this Forum.

 

But go on living in cloud cuckoo land orion - but don't blame me when Speedway Tracks are closing around the Country.

 

You are very good, I notice, at trying to shoot people down but not so clever when it comes to coming up with good positive ideas for the benefit of the Sport.

[Grand Central]

I really do wish that the arguments here over tactical rides and old tac subs could be made with more genuine understanding of each side.

 

The TRUTH is that mathematically the old tac sub method was more 'unfair' than the newer tactical ride.

BUT that to most people it never actually 'felt' like that.

 

The tactical ride was introduced solely for cost cutting. Never to improve fairness.

It achieved that aim very well.

But to many it just seems a 'bad' rule.

 

I have no idea whether such tactical rules have EVER had a dramatic effect on attendances.

But, from memory, I never remember anyone complaining in the 'olden days' about the unfairness of tac subs (TWK excepted, no doubt).

But I do remember a great detail of 'tactical talk' on the terraces on when or how they would be used.

They may have been very unfair but they had the double whammy of tightening matches up and giving an extra dimention to the contest.

 

Truth is I personally do not care one jot about the unfairness. I really liked tac subs.

And I equally really lament their loss.

 

Fairness, cost cutting etc are piffle to me.

BUT I do hate the double point tactical ride.

And the Joker in the SWC.

 

Its just how I feel

[Humphrey Appleby]

But, from memory, I never remember anyone complaining in the 'olden days' about the unfairness of tac subs (TWK excepted, no doubt).

Len Silver used to complain about them a lot. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he came up with the Tactical Ride rule.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[SCB]

I really do wish that the arguments here over tactical rides and old tac subs could be made with more genuine understanding of each side.

 

....

 

Its just how I feel

Totally agree with every single word of this post.

[topsoil]

Doing away with the tactical ride rule wouldn't suddenly bring fans back to speedway. Give fans genuine entertainment in comfortable surroundings at a reasonable price, then you will get fans coming back. Guests, doubling up, rider replacements, these are all mere technical terms, fans outside the sport have no idea, or care about. Firstly you need to market and promote the sport better, to bring new fans in. Then you give them genuine entertainment, they need occupied during intervals and tractor grading. Give them comfortable surroundings with plenty of food / drink outlets and clean toilets. Charge a fair price to get in.

[Grand Central]

Len Silver used to complain about them a lot. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he came up with the Tactical Ride rule.

Uncle Len would not be complaining about fairness though.

It would be money.

 

I always imagined that, after the toss for gate positions ,the coin he threw into the crowd was actually attached to him with elastic so he could retrieve it.