Saturday Night At The Speedway

[New Science]

I preferred the old system, but it was still daft if you're going to go down that route.

 

If it had never existed and had been introduced now we'd be getting told how "I explained the tactical sub rule to my mate and he burst out laughing when I told him one team could replace a weaker rider with their best one and the other team couldn't"... in other words.. it's a fabricated story more times than not.

 

Speedways issue is its image. In a world where extreme sports are becoming ever more popular, speedway, one of the most extreme sports of all fails to market itself in that manner.

Not been the same since they took the noise and smell away circa 2011. The sport has been in a serious nosedive ever since Edited August 5, 2015 by New Science

[BWitcher]

Quite and this is a classic 'bsf, the ills of speedway' thread.

 

Someone comes up with an erudite explanation of why something is probably a negative factor and the response is usually something along the lines of 'it can't be that and you must wrong because....' and then some random and usually irrelevant example is used or a ridiculous conclusions drawn from a stupid extrapolation of the probable negative factor.

 

For example, crap stadiums brings up the fact that festival goers are happy in a field and F1 and Wimbledon fans are happy on a grassy bank and even that following the logic there should be no speedway fans at all because speedway stadiums have always been crap??

 

Other bsf classics that often appear are 'if you haven't got an alternative shut your gob', the classic 'thems the rools' or the one relating to the double tr bollox 'the old rool was daft and more effective so this is better', eh?

 

This thread hasn't even mentioned any of the long list of things the pokc sycophants are too thick to realise that the pokc actually does more harm than good. The usual response to anything negative about the pokc is the bleedin obvious that it keeps the season going for mediocre mid table sides and it gives two good gates in the rain at the end of the season, not to mention the ridiculous stupid extrapolation that crowds must immediately increase without the pokc, without thinking of what would replace it or how it's demise would managed.

 

Good old bsf.

 

Ah I was beginning to worry you had forgotten about your trolling pokc attempts, so engrossed with your trolling of the TR rule.. desperately throwing out jibes that people love it, when NOBODY has said that they do.

 

You're going to have to come up with some new material.

 

So desperate were to you try and score pts over the stadium issue, you failed to even read the thread, as my first comments regarding stadium were:-

 

Stadiums can play a part, but nowhere near as much as some might think.

 

 

 

And after some of your pointless trolling you state regarding stadiums:-

 

 

LOL!

 

It's a factor? Is it too difficult a concept that not everything is black and white?

 

No I'm not referring to your beloved double tr bollox ha ha!

 

It might not even be a significant factor but to ignore it because fans of cool events are happy with a field or grass bank is missing the point.

 

So after all your claptrap, you think pretty much the same.. it's a factor but not a particularly significant one. As I said to begin with.

Edited August 5, 2015 by BWitcher

[Vince]

I think BWitcher is spot on, the rules don't really keep people away from Speedway. May eventually wear down fans who are disillusioned with the sport anyway and add to their lack of desire to keep going but I don't believe they are the reason crowds are poor.

 

Speedway hasn't been a mainstream sport for a long time now, even in the 60's when I first started going it didn't get the coverage it had two decades earlier. I have a horrible feeling that it's probably a sport that has had its day and will now keep going much as it is with spells of slightly more and less popularity. I personally believe the racing is generally as good, if not better, than it's been since I started watching.

 

There are many things that could be done to improve the sport, for one I would do away with the double points nonsense immediately if I could but like most other changes to rules it won't make any difference to crowd levels.

 

Where I do differ slightly to BWitcher is that I think you need good track prep that produces good racing as I think that can make or break a first time visitor. I would also forget fining riders for having a bit of a dust up following an incident and even encourage it a little as there is no doubt that crowds love it. There are always posts expressing disgust on here when one rider hits another but the same posters will often talk about past hard men of the sport with relish.

 

None of that will make Speedway popular again with conditions in stadiums etc, might keep current fans around longer and get a few new fans to stay around but the difference will be marginal. Atmosphere is everything at going to a Speedway meeting these days it is hard to believe that it is an exciting, dangerous sport because it has the feel of an old peoples home with music to match.

 

Unless there is a massive effort to re-market the sport in a different way I think it will stay much as it is, if there is a complete re-branding that brings in youngsters then many of the older fans will hate it anyway!!

[ch958]

Surely a business person who understands the control of costs would understand why the introduction of D/U was essential to.... the cutting, control and managing of costs?

 

And would also understand why an upheaval of the sports rules eg “riders can only ride for 1 team” would leave promotions having to adjust budgeting, costs etc at a time when the sport is already on unstable ground.

 

I totally understand people having opinion, views etc re how the sport is run but simply chucking sh*t at promotions with next not to substance, logic or thought is absurdly harsh.

ok we'll just leave it then

[Guest]

It's "good to see" the troll theory being slammed at some posters because they are making contrary comments. I did ask another poster to define exactly a speedway troll (I suggested someone with a contra opinion) but had no response. But it does appear in BSF-thought that this is most members definition of what a troll is - and the term is frequently bounced at me!

[Trees]

Stadiums can play a part, but nowhere near as much as some might think.

 

Are facilities great for music festivals? Absolutely not, but it doesn't stop thousands going as its the 'cool' thing to do.

 

You can pay over £100 of a ticket to the British GP in Formula One and sit on a grass bank.

 

Even Wimbledon, people pay to go and sit on a grass bank watching a tv screen!

 

If people perceive that its 'the place to be' cost and facilities are secondary... sadly that's much of the human race, very fickle, very easily led.

I don't agree with you much at all but I do this time. Speedway fans, riders, promoters these days are most definitely not sheep, speedway is our 'thing' and on the whole we love it, hence most of the stuff on this forum. Unfortunately we need to change to become sheep-like, as you say.

[E I Addio]

Ah I was beginning to worry you had forgotten about your trolling pokc attempts, so engrossed with your trolling of the TR rule.. desperately throwing out jibes that people love it, when NOBODY has said that they do.

 

You're going to have to come up with some new material.

 

So desperate were to you try and score pts over the stadium issue, you failed to even read the thread,

Exactly, and once again proving the point that you can always tell when people are bankrupt of sensible discussion because the red mist comes up and they start exagerrating, misrepresenting or misquoting other people's posts, and throwing insults ( including branding everyone who doesn't agree with them as "thick" or "sycophants") . That's pretty much par for the course for Drop a Cog I am afraid.

[BWitcher]

Providing examples of events where 'stadiums' aren't great but still draw massive crowds is a 100% relevant example... in fact it can't get MORE relevant.

[Trees]

I have NEVER bothered about how nice a stadium might be, as long as I could stand and see the Speedway, it has always been about the track and racing for me. Obviously young people don't mind 'roughing' it as they love music festivals, God knows the loos there are 100% worse than any Speedway stadium. Speedway doesn't attract these youngsters in huge amounts though so it has to cater for what it has, so get the bloody tracks right then look at the stadium. Hope the new Swindon stadium has 'flat' terracing, it must be one of the worse along with Belle Vue. At least Lynn have always had decent terracing

[Gemini]

It's "good to see" the troll theory being slammed at some posters because they are making contrary comments. I did ask another poster to define exactly a speedway troll (I suggested someone with a contra opinion) but had no response. But it does appear in BSF-thought that this is most members definition of what a troll is - and the term is frequently bounced at me!

It was no good asking me what a speedway troll is because I've never used the word myself to you or anyone else on here so you're best to ask someone who has called you a 'troll'. I answered the question you directed at me about the definition of a speedway fan and a speedway follower. It's easy enough to google 'troll' anyway. Apparently it's this .......... In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,^[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response^[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.^[3]

[The White Knight]

I think BWitcher is spot on, the rules don't really keep people away from Speedway. May eventually wear down fans who are disillusioned with the sport anyway and add to their lack of desire to keep going but I don't believe they are the reason crowds are poor.

 

Speedway hasn't been a mainstream sport for a long time now, even in the 60's when I first started going it didn't get the coverage it had two decades earlier. I have a horrible feeling that it's probably a sport that has had its day and will now keep going much as it is with spells of slightly more and less popularity. I personally believe the racing is generally as good, if not better, than it's been since I started watching.

 

There are many things that could be done to improve the sport, for one I would do away with the double points nonsense immediately if I could but like most other changes to rules it won't make any difference to crowd levels.

 

Where I do differ slightly to BWitcher is that I think you need good track prep that produces good racing as I think that can make or break a first time visitor. I would also forget fining riders for having a bit of a dust up following an incident and even encourage it a little as there is no doubt that crowds love it. There are always posts expressing disgust on here when one rider hits another but the same posters will often talk about past hard men of the sport with relish.

 

None of that will make Speedway popular again with conditions in stadiums etc, might keep current fans around longer and get a few new fans to stay around but the difference will be marginal. Atmosphere is everything at going to a Speedway meeting these days it is hard to believe that it is an exciting, dangerous sport because it has the feel of an old peoples home with music to match.

 

Unless there is a massive effort to re-market the sport in a different way I think it will stay much as it is, if there is a complete re-branding that brings in youngsters then many of the older fans will hate it anyway!!

They do me. (Tactical Ride) I know I am not alone. I must admit I only know one other Person who has stopped for the same reason as me. That at least proves that your statement that: "the rules don't really keep people away from Speedway" is simply not true.

 

What I am saying is that if there are two of us in my sphere of knowledge - logic dictates that there will be others around the Country.

[waiheke1]

Yet you put up for 30 years with a rule which was inherently more unfair?

[orion]

Yet you put up for 30 years with a rule which was inherently more unfair?

Spot on ...he admitted that old rule was stupid but carried on going ...that proves that it was not the rules . There has always stupid rules in speedway nothing has changed in that respect .

[The White Knight]

Yet you put up for 30 years with a rule which was inherently more unfair?

See below.

 

Spot on ...he admitted that old rule was stupid but carried on going ...that proves that it was not the rules . There has always stupid rules in speedway nothing has changed in that respect .

You two keep banging on about my stance on this. (A stance which I am entitled to take - by the way).

 

I have already stated on here many times that I hate the Tactical Ride. I also hated the Tactical Substitute Rule too. I lived with it - that is all. I cannot live with the stupid Tactical Ride.

 

I want to see Speedway with NO outside fiddles to contrive a Result and indeed on occasion cost other Teams Matches. They are both conning, fiddling and cheating (both the Results and the Public). How people can't see this is a mystery to me.

 

Speedway Teams should WIN or LOSE by the Points scored on the Track - anything else is utter bollox.

 

I have explained all of this times without number - so please read and digest.

[BWitcher]

See below.

 

You two keep banging on about my stance on this. (A stance which I am entitled to take - by the way).

 

I have already stated on here many times that I hate the Tactical Ride. I also hated the Tactical Substitute Rule too. I lived with it - that is all. I cannot live with the stupid Tactical Ride.

 

I want to see Speedway with NO outside fiddles to contrive a Result and indeed on occasion cost other Teams Matches. They are both conning, fiddling and cheating (both the Results and the Public). How people can't see this is a mystery to me.

 

Speedway Teams should WIN or LOSE by the Points scored on the Track - anything else is utter bollox.

 

I have explained all of this times without number - so please read and digest.

 

So again for 30+ years you lived with something that was far worse.. but you can't live with something that is fairer.

 

Speedway is the closest it has been in 50 years to how you want it.

[orion]

See below.

 

You two keep banging on about my stance on this. (A stance which I am entitled to take - by the way).

 

I have already stated on here many times that I hate the Tactical Ride. I also hated the Tactical Substitute Rule too. I lived with it - that is all. I cannot live with the stupid Tactical Ride.

 

I want to see Speedway with NO outside fiddles to contrive a Result and indeed on occasion cost other Teams Matches. They are both conning, fiddling and cheating (both the Results and the Public). How people can't see this is a mystery to me.

 

Speedway Teams should WIN or LOSE by the Points scored on the Track - anything else is utter bollox.

 

I have explained all of this times without number - so please read and digest.

So as has been said if had been about silly tac subs who would have stopped going years ago . if fans don't go because of double points rule but went when the tac sub was around then they are worth worrying about as there views are hypocritical . What it boils down to all the time is old speedway fans just wanting the rules to be the same when they went .

[orion]

On Monday Cook beat Janowski fair and square yet Janowski got 4 points and Cook only got 3!

 

That is not fair is it?

 

Stands by for the bsf favourite 'them's the rools', lol!

Correct it's not ...when you used the old tac rule one side were allowed to used there best riders more than the other side ..was that fair no .

[orion]

As I said elsewhere it never occurred to me but that doesn't mean it wasn't. Perhaps because a beaten rider never scored more points than the rider who beat him?

Or perhaps it was because under the new rules you can't change your Number 7 with your No 1 . The bottom line both rules were stupid and unfair .

[Barney Rabbit]

I think the problem with the double tr bollox is it doesn't matter how thick you are its bleedin obvious that a beaten rider scoring more points than the rider who beat him is not fair.

 

To spot the unfairness in the tactical substitute rule you had to be really really clever.

 

Or you were at an away track, seeing your team work hard to get into a 6 point lead by heat 8, then watched your #2 and #7 demolished by the home team's top two riders, the home team going on to win by a couple of points.

[orion]

 

Or you were at an away track, seeing your team work hard to get into a 6 point lead by heat 8, then watched your #2 and #7 demolished by the home team's top two riders, the home team going on to win by a couple of points.

Correct it's not hard really . the stats have been quite clear that the old tac changed the overall result of match far more that the new rule ever has. you don't have to very clever to work that out .

Edited August 6, 2015 by orion