The White Knight Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 My memory may be playing tricks with me. Perhaps Arnieg can tell me if I'm right or not. I'm sure there was a 70s match where Doug Underwood was the only Reading rider in a side that otherwise consisted of 6 guests. ONE!!! In a decade. It's just about every other bloody week these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 ONE!!! In a decade. It's just about every other bloody week these days. Name me one of these 'every other week' meetings where ONE side had SIX guests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 LOL! Where do you get "73‰ more false results" from? Even if you hadn't just made that up you're confusing a 'false result' with barmpot. Surely even you worked out the old sub when you could used many times when you were only six points behind affected many more match results than the double points rule ...bar that as I said both are mickey mouse . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Name me one of these 'every other week' meetings where ONE side had SIX guests. I just knew someone would come back with that question - I thought it would be one of two people - I was right. You didn't let me down BW. I was exaggerating, using sarcasm if you will. It doesn't alter the fact that there are far more Substitute Riders drafted in these days than ever there were in the Seventies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) I just knew someone would come back with that question - I thought it would be one of two people - I was right. You didn't let me down BW. I was exaggerating, using sarcasm if you will. It doesn't alter the fact that there are far more Substitute Riders drafted in these days than ever there were in the Seventies. Why are you posting ridiculous statements? Is sarcasm and exaggerating all you have to further your argument? Basically, jumping on something to try and further your own argument, when in actual fact it did nothing of the sort. Of course, there are more guests being used at the moment since the introduction of the fast track system... however, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the the fact people aren't attending the sport now as much as they did in the 'good old days' as when 'fast track riders' were introduced, the crowds had already dropped. As has been explained quite clearly to you.. both guests AND double uppers were around in the 70's. In fact double uppers went out of the sport for quite some time.. interestingly the period of time when the most fans walked away from the sport Edited August 5, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Why are you posting ridiculous statements? Is sarcasm and exaggerating all you have to further your argument? Basically, jumping on something to try and further your own argument, when in actual fact it did nothing of the sort. Of course, there are more guests being used at the moment since the introduction of the fast track system... however, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the the fact people aren't attending the sport now as much as they did in the 'good old days' as when 'fast track riders' were introduced, the crowds had already dropped. As has been explained quite clearly to you.. both guests AND double uppers were around in the 70's. In fact double uppers went out of the sport for quite some time.. interestingly the period of time when the most fans walked away from the sport i think you were near the mark when you said the sport was uncool - it certainly is there isn't one thing wrong - there's loads - guests, du, jokers, whatever not saying that getting rid of the above would bring people back for sure but something has to be tried as a former business person i would say that number one issue is control of costs businesses that fail to control costs always fail - always thats why we have so many accountants Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Why are you posting ridiculous statements? Is sarcasm and exaggerating all you have to further your argument? Basically, jumping on something to try and further your own argument, when in actual fact it did nothing of the sort. Of course, there are more guests being used at the moment since the introduction of the fast track system... however, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the the fact people aren't attending the sport now as much as they did in the 'good old days' as when 'fast track riders' were introduced, the crowds had already dropped. As has been explained quite clearly to you.. both guests AND double uppers were around in the 70's. In fact double uppers went out of the sport for quite some time.. interestingly the period of time when the most fans walked away from the sport Another System which is of questionable benefit to Speedway as a whole. The Jury is still out on that one as far as I am concerned. Not anywhere near the amount there are today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 If you mean it gave the opportunity that more meetings could be close then I'd have to agree. Isn't that the point though? More effective and not as daft as giving double points for the same result, that's a win win in my book, or in your book a win draw, still an improvement though. I preferred the old system, but it was still daft if you're going to go down that route. If it had never existed and had been introduced now we'd be getting told how "I explained the tactical sub rule to my mate and he burst out laughing when I told him one team could replace a weaker rider with their best one and the other team couldn't"... in other words.. it's a fabricated story more times than not. Speedways issue is its image. In a world where extreme sports are becoming ever more popular, speedway, one of the most extreme sports of all fails to market itself in that manner. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Surely a business person who understands the control of costs would understand why the introduction of D/U was essential to.... the cutting, control and managing of costs? And would also understand why an upheaval of the sports rules eg “riders can only ride for 1 team” would leave promotions having to adjust budgeting, costs etc at a time when the sport is already on unstable ground. I totally understand people having opinion, views etc re how the sport is run but simply chucking sh*t at promotions with next not to substance, logic or thought is absurdly harsh. Edited August 5, 2015 by sparkafag 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Stadiums can play a part, but nowhere near as much as some might think. Are facilities great for music festivals? Absolutely not, but it doesn't stop thousands going as its the 'cool' thing to do. You can pay over £100 of a ticket to the British GP in Formula One and sit on a grass bank. Even Wimbledon, people pay to go and sit on a grass bank watching a tv screen! If people perceive that its 'the place to be' cost and facilities are secondary... sadly that's much of the human race, very fickle, very easily led. Edited August 5, 2015 by BWitcher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 A week tomorrow I'll be taking a speedway virgin to his first ever speedway meeting. Have I mentioned that Coventry will almost certainly have a guest at number 2? Or that the guys at 3,6 and 7 for Coventry that night also ride for a PL team? Or that a few of the other in the team ride in Sweden and Poland for another team? No. Why? Because it makes sod all difference to him. He won't care, it won't change the meeting at all for him. Have I mentioned the TR yet? No. No need. If Coventry (or Swindon) end up 10 down I'll explain it. So, will the fact half the riders in the meeting ride for other teams put him off the sport? No, because I will not mention it, he'll be oblivious to it. What might put him off is when they start playing hits of the 80s on repeat, when we have a 20 minute interval where nothing happens. Where we have a 10 minute gap for no reason at all. The entertainment is 4 riders, 4 laps, 15 times. That is what people either like or they don't. Get that right and frankly the rest is pretty irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 If you expect to stand in a field or sit on a grass bank then you would look a bit stupid if you moaned about it. If I went along to watch speedway because I thought it looked okay on the telly and then found that I had a restricted view or was stood on a crumbling terrace or grass bank then I wouldn't be back. How comes you went back to Belle Vue ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) If you expect to stand in a field or sit on a grass bank then you would look a bit stupid if you moaned about it. If I went along to watch speedway because I thought it looked okay on the telly and then found that I had a restricted view or was stood on a crumbling terrace or grass bank then I wouldn't be back. Not even the double tr bollox would do it, lol! I'm going to a festival this weekend (a throw back to the 80s for us dinosaurs, there'll be over 100,000 of us there, lol), I know what to expect. If I find the field is actually a concave hill and I can't see the stage or the field is infested with giant thistles or crumbling farm building I won't go again. When I went to see U2 in Cardiff a few years ago I knew what to expect, if I turned up and found it was on in the Arms Park and I had a restricted view I would have been properly dischuffed, again I wouldn't be going back. So you're suggesting someone who has seen speedway on TV is going to go along expecting state of the art facilities? Because I like speedway, I'm a diehard speedway fan that has had the piss taken out of him for the past 20+ years. There it is.. exactly what I have been saying and the crux of the issue. The majority of folk who take the mickey out of speedway fans have no concept of the sport. They've never been, they know nothing of guests, TR bollox, Playoffs or any of the geeky speedway stuff. They just know that speedway is considered an uncool thing and like sheep follow along with that line of thinking. Until that perception is changed, the sport isn't going to pull in the fans. Edited August 5, 2015 by BWitcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longlivefrankie Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I would suggest the main issue speedway has is the one it has always had...the perception that it is first out of the start wins, as we know there's more to speedway than constant passing, imo the presentation of the sport leaves a lot to be desired. This is where f1 & particularly 20/20 cricket has worked it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Because I like speedway, I'm a diehard speedway fan that has had the piss taken out of him for the past 20+ years. Why do you go to Swindon? Please don't tell me it's because they changed the tac sub rule for the double tr bollox, lol! But you must have gone to crap stadium in the first like everyone else ...so using your logic there should be no speedway fans because they never go again . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 ......SCB....... So, will the fact half the riders in the meeting ride for other teams put him off the sport? No, because I will not mention it, he'll be oblivious to it. What might put him off is when they start playing hits of the 80s on repeat, when we have a 20 minute interval where nothing happens. Where we have a 10 minute gap for no reason at all. Nail on the head....... unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 I honestly don't think facilities okay a massive role in the attraction of speedway....I don't think people would go to a speedway match in the expectation of 5 star facilities....maybe a bar and a decent burger bar and most people are happy as long as they can see the track well and the entertainment on that track is good..... Cradley was always one of my favourites but the facilities were rubbish really but the crowds were good...visiting fans liked to congregate on the back straight and created a good atmosphere which added to any meeting...an atmosphere is far better than plush facilities...it had good pork sandwiches as well !...and the racing was always good.....all that was far better than having top notch facilities and I don't think times have changed that much.. Maybe people do expect more now, but I really don't think that's the case for the majority ....my issue at Kirky Lane when it opened was that , yes at the time it had terrific facilities, great bars etc but the viewing and atmosphere was poor......most people sat indoors with a nice drink but that created a poor atmosphere outside and when you were outside it was never a great view of the track really...it wasn't surprising a lot of people stopped going. The new Belle Vue stadium doesn't need state of the art facilities ...it needs a good track and it needs good viewing....a grandstand on the home straight that offers a great view under cover will generate a great atmosphere and its that that will keep fans coming back.....nice bars are a bonus after that.....somewhere for an after meeting drink in relative comfort would be nice but the main thing is a good track with good viewing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 LOL! It's a factor? Is it too difficult a concept that not everything is black and white? No I'm not referring to your beloved double tr bollox ha ha! It might not even be a significant factor but to ignore it because fans of cool events are happy with a field or grass bank is missing the point. I don't like the double tr rule ..when did I say I did ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) Reading this thread with so many arguments and opinions put forward pretty much covers every reason why the sport is in such decline so should in theory provide a good 'starter for ten' for anyone involved in the sport when they are looking to target improvements.... Most appear valid, fair, very relevant and constructive, with the contributors passion for the sport clearly demonstrated...... As has been said so many times, Speedway when done well is a great night out and is truly one of the few sports with a genuine 'wow factor'...However, the bottom line is that any business that is struggling to bring in any new custom, whilst alienating and eroding its hard core customer base through its ill advised business, and poorly administered operational plans, can only go one way.....And sadly its not up is it? Edited August 5, 2015 by mikebv 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Reading this thread with so many arguments and opinions put forward pretty much covers every reason why the sport is in such decline so should in theory provide a good 'starter for ten' for anyone involved in the sport when they are looking to target improvements.... Most appear valid, fair, very relevant and constructive, with the contributors passion for the sport clearly demonstrated...... As has been said so many times, Speedway when done well is a great night out and is truly one of the few sports with a genuine 'wow factor'... However, the bottom line is that any business that is struggling to bring in any new custom, whilst alienating and eroding its hard core customer base through its ill advised business and poorly administered operational plan, can only go one way..... And sadly its not up is it? Superb Post Mikebv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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