Fromafar Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Of course not. What I am suggesting is that the doubling up regulations have got totally out of control and sees many of the Elite League tracks running with four doubling up riders. All this means, is that when one of them gets hurt (Masters, Birks, Robson, Rose etc.) it means that two teams are using guests for one injury. There are about 30 riders riding for two teams at the moment and fixture clashes are inevitable. I accept that injuries are part and parcel of the sport but when a team loses at home with three or four guests when riders have been injured racing for other teams in the UK or abroad, or are riding for some other team they have no affiliation for, is it any wonder that fans vote with their feet. Your next comment might be 'there aren't enough riders to go round.' This is a self fulfilling prophecy as the number of available team places dry up, the number of riders to fill them also dries up. There are enough periods in speedway's history to show that riders can be found when there is a need. In 1947 when a third division was created, in 1960 when the Provincial League was formed and in 1968 when the British League Division Two began, there was the same cry. The lads who have come from moto cross in recent years demonstrate that there is a willingness to move sports if there is an opportunity there. The promoters are all bleating about low crowds but they do nothing to encourage people to return. Fans support a team. They want to feel a loyalty to the riders (Morton and Collins at Belle Vue, Wyer and Wilson at Sheffield, Louis and Davey at Ipswich etc) and this essential part of the sport has been stripped away from the fans as they see their riders turning out for three or four teams per week in the UK and abroad. I realise that the riders need to make a living and they might well be happy with the current state of affairs, but, the most important part of the equation is the fans and it is clear from the numbers on the terraces that things need to change. Sorry to harp on but... The answer shouldn't be too hard to find. We have 31 teams over the three divisions this year (lets hope its as many in 2016). That means we need 217 riders to staff the teams to full strength. I reckon that about 130 British riders have turned out in league racing, mainly in the National League this year. So, there are the riders, it's just that most of them are riding at the wrong level. The Premier League shouldn't be for riders like Craig Cook, Danny King, Ben Barker and Simon Stead. If they want to ride there, then fine, but that should be where they ride - not for anyone else. Similarly, the National League shouldn't be for people like Max Clegg, Ben Morley, Danny Ayres, Danny Halsey, Adam Ellis, Bradley Wilson-Dean and Dan Greenwood. You might say that Clegg is averaging only about four points per match in the Premier League. Well, he is, but he is up against riders who ought to be in the league above. I was at Sheffield to watch the Cradley challenge match the other week. There was a lad called Tyler Govier for Cradley who has made three league appearances for the Heathens. He looked a tidy rider and wasn't anywhere near a 'wobbler' I might have expected. These are the lads that should be regulars in the National League, not just scratching around for rides, getting disillusioned and drifting pout of the sport. There will always be the natural talents like Collins, Loram, Lee and Woffinden who will make it no matter what, but would Peter Craven have become world champion if there was doubling up in the early 1950s? Probably not, because he wouldn't have been given a chance. The fact is that there are the riders out there. They just need to be given a chance and stopping the doubling up nonsense would be a first step. Sorry. I'll shut up now!! Sorry to harp on but... The answer shouldn't be too hard to find. We have 31 teams over the three divisions this year (lets hope its as many in 2016). That means we need 217 riders to staff the teams to full strength. I reckon that about 130 British riders have turned out in league racing, mainly in the National League this year. So, there are the riders, it's just that most of them are riding at the wrong level. The Premier League shouldn't be for riders like Craig Cook, Danny King, Ben Barker and Simon Stead. If they want to ride there, then fine, but that should be where they ride - not for anyone else. Similarly, the National League shouldn't be for people like Max Clegg, Ben Morley, Danny Ayres, Danny Halsey, Adam Ellis, Bradley Wilson-Dean and Dan Greenwood. You might say that Clegg is averaging only about four points per match in the Premier League. Well, he is, but he is up against riders who ought to be in the league above. I was at Sheffield to watch the Cradley challenge match the other week. There was a lad called Tyler Govier for Cradley who has made three league appearances for the Heathens. He looked a tidy rider and wasn't anywhere near a 'wobbler' I might have expected. These are the lads that should be regulars in the National League, not just scratching around for rides, getting disillusioned and drifting pout of the sport. There will always be the natural talents like Collins, Loram, Lee and Woffinden who will make it no matter what, but would Peter Craven have become world champion if there was doubling up in the early 1950s? Probably not, because he wouldn't have been given a chance. The fact is that there are the riders out there. They just need to be given a chance and stopping the doubling up nonsense would be a first step. Sorry. I'll shut up now!! Nothing wrong with your posts there is a lot of fans out there with the same thoughts.Speedway cannot be taken seriously as aTeam sport nowadays,it is just 4 riders providing entertainment.Personaly as a Bikesport fan the BSB super bike racing provides a better day out and more value for money nowadays.The sport is failing to attract new fans which is the bottom line and needs a big transformation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebaron Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) On the subject of rides. Ryan Douglas has been on twitter appealing for a ride !. Obviously as a Scunny fan I do not want him riding here there and everywhere to our eventual loss. But the lads over here from Aus to ride and earn as a full time speedway rider not sit around for weeks on end and no rides. For me one of the reasons for this is the organisation of the leagues and fixtures. I know last week v Plymouth was off and no ones blaming anyone. But in a regionalised structure we may have run with Scorps v Belle Vue but Scorps v Plymouth you have to consider it more before committing to it. Result is Ryan sits out until Ipswich and we all know riders need to ride. I am for a competition we can stage with some certainty and regularity and more locally based competition supports that more. I am not saying we never race the likes of Plymouth;we still run a National Cup competition; and we can bring the N&W and S&E Conferences together for the Grand Finale. Next season the National Stadium opens at Belle Vue. Thats a golden opportunity to relaunch British Speedway. I see every club there and represented by their riders. Sky can do the launch event; press invited and fans. The new league structure launches and we really promote each and every Speedway centre. I can go on but not right now. Speedway has to be prepared to be brave and say look what is happening now is not the best we can be; we can and will be better and be prepared to change. Might not be for all time; but right here; right now lets do the best for all our sakes. That said as I write this it all seems trivial hearing the concerning news from Peterborough. Sincerely wishing Lewis Kerr all the best get well soon. Edited August 2, 2015 by the outsider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Silly post ..crowds were packed when there was the more unfair ts rule and play offs in all sports are a massive success so yet again that has zero bearing on why fans don't go ....this is the problem we these can't of topics they just turn into a load of old speedway fans wanting the rules when they used to go. the ts v the tactical proves that perfectly I don't want to lower the tone of what was an excellent Thread but you attack most of my Posts as silly. You have nothing constructive to say though. Funny that. I think quite a few people on here would, I hope, disagree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) I don't want to lower the tone of what was an excellent Thread but you attack most of my Posts as silly. You have nothing constructive to say though. Funny that. I think quite a few people on here would, I hope, disagree with you. The thread was good ..intill you made the stupid comment about play offs and tac sub that have zero to with the point the poster was making ...nothing constructive about repeating yourself all the time about a subject your wrong about . Edited August 2, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxey63 Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) YES, what else do you suggest to cover injuries then? Cancel meetings til everyone is OK? No - nothing as drastic. Perhaps invite all fans in for free... as guests, perhaps? You can't expect people to pay true cash for a sport made up of pretend battle. Edited August 2, 2015 by moxey63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Absences are the reason I don't go anymore. too many injuries. Bikes are faster, more powerful but tracks are the same size, either bigger tracks which cant happen or make the bikes slower. Edited August 2, 2015 by oldtimer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) It's up to each individual club to make their guests feel welcome, part of a team and to want to give 100% for that particular night, IMO it's not 'pretend battle'!! Most of the people on this thread don't go to speedway anymore, don't have a club to support, will never be satisfied with what's on offer imo ..... Edited August 2, 2015 by Trees 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 No - nothing as drastic. Perhaps invite all fans in for free... as guests, perhaps? You can't expect people to pay true cash for a sport made up of pretend battle. Funny thing is that I have always said, if the product is poor, people won't support it even if it is free... Picking up on a small off-the-cuff comment about people "passing by the gates; that actually is very valid to this discussion. In the old days, people WERE passing by the gates of a speedway stadium, so the public were more aware of its existence! Tracks like Wimbledon, West Ham, Belle Vue, Exeter etc, were in urban areas, so people knew. Now, the fact that we have to keep any kind of nasty motorsport stadium at least 100 miles away from the nearest resident means that most people don't have a clue what goes on... There is no ONE solution to the problems we are facing, and many of the issues aren't directly speedway related (being forced out of city centres, renting stadia from speedway-hating landlords, the wonderful British weather etc), but there are plenty that can be resolved - one at a time - with a little forethought and effort... Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Sorry to harp on but... The Premier League shouldn't be for riders like Craig Cook, Danny King, Ben Barker and Simon Stead. If they want to ride there, then fine, but that should be where they ride - not for anyone else. !! The Elite League runs 14 home league meetings per club per year. If that is all they are going to be allowed to ride they will not make enough money to earn a decent living, and when at times they race once every couple of weeks their sharpness will go and the standard will further deteriorate. In addition There was a big article on Richie Worrall in Speedwáy Star the other week in which he complained of not enough meetings in the PL to earn a living. It all very well taking the popular line about riders should do this or shouldn't do that but the bottom line is that for most of them if they need to double up in order to progress to the top league and to earn a decent living. Sorry to harp on but... There will always be the natural talents like Collins, Loram, Lee and Woffinden who will make it no matter what, but would Peter Craven have become world champion if there was doubling up in the early 1950s? Probably not, because he wouldn't have been given a chance. w!! This is where threads like this go off the rails because you are now saying anything that comes into your head to make a point, whether it's right or wrong. Peter Craven got to the World Final because he went though the qualifying rounds like everybody else in those days, Jack Young was riding in the Second Division when he went through the qualifying rounds and became a World Champion so doubling up would have absolutely nothing to do with getting the chance to become World Champion. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 The thread was good ..intill you made the stupid comment about play offs and tac sub that have zero to with the point the poster was making ...nothing constructive about repeating yourself all the time about a subject your wrong about . In your opinion I am wrong or silly. That's all it is, your opinion. Plenty of people feel the same as myself. I suggest you read the first sentence of the original Post by Tigerowl as regards the relevance/merit of my Post. (I trust you will be intelligent enough to work out the relevance of course - but then again - perhaps not). :sad: Anyway - there is no point in debating with you - you, sadly, seem unable to debate in a civil manner as I have discovered before. Perhaps I should learn from my experience.................................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerowl Posted August 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 I think you may have missed the point. I used the Peter Craven argument as he started of as a failing junior but got his break and made World Champion. How many potential good riders are we losing today because they are not getting the chances due to riders turning out for multiple teams and National League tracks using guests and rider replacement rules against each other? If you are happy with the set up and think that the doubling up and guest farce is a good thing for the sport, fair enough, But looking round the stadiums it seems like others are not happy and are staying away. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why people are not coming to the speedway any more, economics being one, but losing team identity is certainly a reason. As for the Richie Worrall situation, again, it's up to him. But how anyone can be expect to be a full time rider, riding in front of crowds of 500 or so is beyond me, We are averaging crowds about the same level as Conference North / South football teams, in worse facilities, and their players all have other forms of income. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 In your opinion I am wrong or silly. That's all it is, your opinion. Plenty of people feel the same as myself. I suggest you read the first sentence of the original Post by Tigerowl as regards the relevance/merit of my Post. (I trust you will be intelligent enough to work out the relevance of course - but then again - perhaps not). :sad: Anyway - there is no point in debating with you - you, sadly, seem unable to debate in a civil manner as I have discovered before. Perhaps I should learn from my experience.................................................... The one thing for sure is that you never learn hence why you repeat your mistakes time and again ,,yet again this topic out you come again with something that you said about million times that has no logic and is just plain stupid ...are give it about a week before you say the same again I think you may have missed the point. I used the Peter Craven argument as he started of as a failing junior but got his break and made World Champion. How many potential good riders are we losing today because they are not getting the chances due to riders turning out for multiple teams and National League tracks using guests and rider replacement rules against each other? If you are happy with the set up and think that the doubling up and guest farce is a good thing for the sport, fair enough, But looking round the stadiums it seems like others are not happy and are staying away. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why people are not coming to the speedway any more, economics being one, but losing team identity is certainly a reason. As for the Richie Worrall situation, again, it's up to him. But how anyone can be expect to be a full time rider, riding in front of crowds of 500 or so is beyond me, We are averaging crowds about the same level as Conference North / South football teams, in worse facilities, and their players all have other forms of income. never that it was good for the sport but why we have to have double up riders etc ...your post I doubt there is anyone happy with guests or double up riders but yet again you don't come with anything that is better or workable money wise . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 The thread was good ..intill you made the stupid comment about play offs and tac sub that have zero to with the point the poster was making ...nothing constructive about repeating yourself all the time about a subject your wrong about . I think the word you are looking for is 'until' old boy. :lol: The one thing for sure is that you never learn hence why you repeat your mistakes time and again ,,yet again this topic out you come again with something that you said about million times that has no logic and is just plain stupid ...are give it about a week before you say the same again I doubt there is anyone happy with guests or double up riders but yet again you don't come with anything that is better or workable money wise . I think the word you are looking for is 'I' - simple enough really. :lol: I think you might want to regard use of the words 'silly' and 'stupid' as regards to me after those two efforts. So - please don't be so crass as to lecture me on my mistakes. The only mistake I have made is trying to have a sensible discussion with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 I think the word you are looking for is 'until' old boy. :lol: I think the word you are looking for is 'I' - simple enough really. :lol: I think you might want to regard use of the words 'silly' and 'stupid' as regards to me after those two efforts. So - please don't be so crass as to lecture me on my mistakes. The only mistake I have made is trying to have a sensible discussion with you. Hook line and sinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) If you're going to have half of every team riding in more than one league, common sense would suggest you arrange for the leagues to be run on different nights? Or merge them, so that riders only ride for ONE club. Is that far too simplistic? The amount of money that has, come into and out of, the sport in the past 80+ years, most tracks should be in a position whereby they own their own stadiums. At times when the sport was booming more should have been done to put the sport in a better financial position. A small levy, put into a building fund, would have meant the BSPA(or some similar body) would have been the owners of many former tracks. Whether it was lack of foresight, or just pure greed on the part of previous generations of promoters, I'll leave for others to decide. But after 80+ years, there really should be more stand alone tracks. The sport has been badly let down by previous generations of promoters. I tried telling John Berry that but, as you can imagine, old JB wasn't having it! Put very well as you have; it just reads dreadfully does it not, and something really has to be done about this. I have a cunning plan if people will hear me out; and part of it; is to amalgamate the two leagues and regionalise - North/West; South/East. Guests are permitted but not from within your own section so a team in the North/West can utilise a guest rider from the South/West and vice versa. I am a long advocate of the benefits of regionalisation; at this difficult time in the sport. The promoters need to come together in the interests of the sport. This does not mean that we are regionalised for ever and a day; but when the sport and its supporter base is going through hard times; it needs to draw back to its strongest position; and for me that is represented by an amalgamated regionalised format. For instance regionalisation would help with situations like we at Scunthorpe found ourselves in last Friday v Plymouth. The meeting was called off on the back of a poor forecast at 9:00am that looked a reasonable decision given the travel involved for Plymouth. But there was not a drop of rain all day; and it made the decision look a bit hasty. My point being; that if your opposition is more locally based you can make a later call and not inconvenience people as much. As I say I have a plan and I will be trying to communicate this when and where I get the chance if someone will listen. That's far too sensible a plan to ever be taken up by the powers that be! Seriously, though, as you say, the BSPA should merge the two top leagues, then regionalise them. To reduce guests and doubling-up/down, come up with a revised meeting formula for 6 or even 5-man teams. Why do teams have to be made up of 7 riders anyway? We've had 6-man teams in the past. If 6-man teams were adopted now, with 21 clubs in existence, that effectively does away with the need for 21 riders - or 42 if you went down to 5-man teams. That in itself should significantly reduce the reliance upon guests. If riders say they can't afford to ride, then so be it. Tell them to cut their costs (less bikes = less spent on engine tuners and no full-time mechanics). Many will have to supplement their speedway earnings with a full or part-time job. Promoters should never pay out more than they ever receive in gate revenue and from other small revenue sources (sponsors, progs and souvenir kiosks, etc). My suggested revamp would follow something similar to the Major League Soccer (MLS) set-up in the USA, which is split into two divisions called Western & Eastern Conference (10 teams in each), culminating in knockout play-off matches involving the top 6 teams in each section. That's 12 teams with prolonged interest beyond the main league season. In speedway terms, the geographical split would be fairly straightforward. Assuming all current 21 EL & PL teams keep going, the two regionalised leagues could look like this: NORTH (11 teams) Belle Vue Wolves Leicester Coventry Edinburgh Glasgow Workington Berwick Newcastle Redcar Sheffield SOUTH (10 teams) Poole King's Lynn Swindon Lakeside Ipswich Scunthorpe Peterborough Rye House Somerset Plymouth Obviously, each team in the North group would have two matches more than the South group, due to the 11/10 imbalance. Your suggestion that a team from one regional section can only use guests from the other section (and vice-versa) would be a small step in the right direction but I'd hope that by reducing the number or riders per team, use of guests would be drastically cut - and perhaps only be allowed to replace a No.1? If such a shake-up meant a surfeit of riders left without teams, then how about that group (or as many who wish to be included) forming an independent 'Guests Pool', from which only guest replacements can be selected? You'd have to grade them according to their last official average in order to determine who is eligible to replace who. But the Guest Pool riders would have no attachment to any of the 21 clubs but could (if guests continue to be commonplace) end up getting a lot of bookings - almost as many as if they were permanent team members. This would help the credibility factor, because riders won't be regularly turning out for the same 2 teams, as many of them do now. And of course, the Guest Pool riders would be first in line to receive long-term call-ups to replace injured team members on a permanent basis. OK, so the above is not perfect, but then we don't live in a perfect world. Edited August 3, 2015 by tmc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 How are young Brits of genuine ability going to improve in a league like that where the quality would be barely higher than current pl? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebaron Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I think you may have missed the point. I used the Peter Craven argument as he started of as a failing junior but got his break and made World Champion. How many potential good riders are we losing today because they are not getting the chances due to riders turning out for multiple teams and National League tracks using guests and rider replacement rules against each other? If you are happy with the set up and think that the doubling up and guest farce is a good thing for the sport, fair enough, But looking round the stadiums it seems like others are not happy and are staying away. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why people are not coming to the speedway any more, economics being one, but losing team identity is certainly a reason. As for the Richie Worrall situation, again, it's up to him. But how anyone can be expect to be a full time rider, riding in front of crowds of 500 or so is beyond me, We are averaging crowds about the same level as Conference North / South football teams, in worse facilities, and their players all have other forms of income. TigerOwl your posting here is top drawer. You have hit on the exact anology I have in mind; that being Speedways comparison to Conference N/S football leagues.I watch Guiseley FC in the Conf N just been promoted to Nat League but; crowds at Guiseley 400-500 max. The players are not full time theyre estate agents; joiners; administrators; football coaches/teachers. In speedway with the same crowd level the riders in the main are full time; as far as I know. Theres no one respects a speedway rider more than I these guys deserve all they get. But I am sometimes scratching my head at the maths behind it; that would make it a viable full time occupation. Ok for Tai and the GP troupe thats full time; but if I am No6 in a PL team I need to supplement my part time speedway career. So speedway is (like football Conf N/S) semi-pro. That then begs the question from the riders; how do we fit our jobs in around riding for a PL team? We have to go up and down the country say 2-3 times a week. Well no you dont because the leagues are regionalised now (rem; my mantra N/W and S/E) matches are more local less travel. It might help riders to have one set race night in the week. Hence making possible to earn a living combining a regular job with a semi-pro speedway career. Which is what the lads at Guiseley FC do in the main. Some very readable points made within this thread in my humble opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebaron Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) Or merge them, so that riders only ride for ONE club. Is that far too simplistic? I tried telling John Berry that but, as you can imagine, old JB wasn't having it! That's far too sensible a plan to ever be taken up by the powers that be! Seriously, though, as you say, the BSPA should merge the two top leagues, then regionalise them. To reduce guests and doubling-up/down, come up with a revised meeting formula for 6 or even 5-man teams. Why do teams have to be made up of 7 riders anyway? We've had 6-man teams in the past. If 6-man teams were adopted now, with 21 clubs in existence, that effectively does away with the need for 21 riders - or 42 if you went down to 5-man teams. That in itself should significantly reduce the reliance upon guests. If riders say they can't afford to ride, then so be it. Tell them to cut their costs (less bikes = less spent on engine tuners and no full-time mechanics). Many will have to supplement their speedway earnings with a full or part-time job. Promoters should never pay out more than they ever receive in gate revenue and from other small revenue sources (sponsors, progs and souvenir kiosks, etc). My suggested revamp would follow something similar to the Major League Soccer (MLS) set-up in the USA, which is split into two divisions called Western & Eastern Conference (10 teams in each), culminating in knockout play-off matches involving the top 6 teams in each section. That's 12 teams with prolonged interest beyond the main league season. In speedway terms, the geographical split would be fairly straightforward. Assuming all current 21 EL & PL teams keep going, the two regionalised leagues could look like this: NORTH (11 teams) Belle Vue Wolves Leicester Coventry Edinburgh Glasgow Workington Berwick Newcastle Redcar Sheffield SOUTH (10 teams) Poole King's Lynn Swindon Lakeside Ipswich Scunthorpe Peterborough Rye House Somerset Plymouth Obviously, each team in the North group would have two matches more than the South group, due to the 11/10 imbalance. Your suggestion that a team from one regional section can only use guests from the other section (and vice-versa) would be a small step in the right direction but I'd hope that by reducing the number or riders per team, use of guests would be drastically cut - and perhaps only be allowed to replace a No.1? If such a shake-up meant a surfeit of riders left without teams, then how about that group (or as many who wish to be included) forming an independent 'Guests Pool', from which only guest replacements can be selected? You'd have to grade them according to their last official average in order to determine who is eligible to replace who. But the Guest Pool riders would have no attachment to any of the 21 clubs but could (if guests continue to be commonplace) end up getting a lot of bookings - almost as many as if they were permanent team members. This would help the credibility factor, because riders won't be regularly turning out for the same 2 teams, as many of them do now. And of course, the Guest Pool riders would be first in line to receive long-term call-ups to replace injured team members on a permanent basis. OK, so the above is not perfect, but then we don't live in a perfect world. Tony; just reading this and I am absolutely on your page with this. It is pretty much how I envision things in a amalgamated regionalised format. I would though split the leagues slightly differently in as much as Scunthorpe have to be in the N/W and I might have Cov/Lei in the S/E ? I agree also who decreed we have to run with 7 riders to a team? As recently as 1997 we ran with 6 in the inagural EL season won by Bradford!. As you say that has also applied in seasons past as well. My vision is 6 man teams 8 man squads with a designated No8 (say NL ability) and an affiliated rider maybe based overseas but whom you can bring in to cover for injury. There are lots of overseas riders whos Euro commitments prevent them committing to full time in the UK. But on a short term affilated contract the UK may be workable. Another point you touch on is the 21 rider guest pool. I think that has merit for those who fail to get a regular team place. But part of my plan is to recruit 21 Marqee riders on central contracts and draft one rider to each Conf club. The draft could take place at the opening of the Belle Vue National stadium maxing publicity. Each club receives their marquee rider; clubs are helped to finance the marquee rider by the BSPA via tv money/sponsors etc...and that rider is the "standard bearer" to promote the speedway centre he rides at. Lets say Scunthorpe received say; Martin Smolinski in the draft ? Smolinski is the Marqee rider who is presented as the figure head at Scunthorpe and similarly others tracks have their Marquee rider. The draft could also include the Development rider taking the 6th spot in the team; there are surely 21 competant young British riders who could take up a reserve slot in each team. I have more within my plan; but compelled to respond when I saw how much we are down the same line. Edited August 3, 2015 by the outsider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 If you are happy with the set up and think that the doubling up and guest farce is a good thing for the sport, fair enough, .tp That statement sums up the bankruptcy of you position. The best answer you can come up with is to imply I am happy with the set-up which is not what I said at all. I am not happy with the set up but I live in the real world and I realise we need real world solutions to real world problems with the sport not knee jerk reactions. That means any idea that is put forward has to explain the financial side of things. I pointed out to you the plain fact that riders have to earn a decent living, but you are unable to explain how that would work in your scheme and the best you cann do is to start mudslinging and claim I am happy with things as they are. The root of the problem is cheap airfares have for years made easier and cheaper to fly foreign riders in than to train riders of our own. There is a dire shortage of home grown riders in our leagues. The dramage there is already done and we have to start from w here we are now instead of moaning about it. The Hagon Shocks academy at Lakeside is starting to produce some talented young riders. That lis the sort of facility that has been missing for years but as they are only just reaching their early teens but it will be several years befor,e they leave school and/ or reach an acceptable league standard. In the meantime we have to manage with the few coming through the few other training facilities we have and there is no quick fix solution, only sticking plaster over the cracks. The other problem is that because of the amount if foreign riders we have and better pay on the continent, plus the long GP season our fixture list has to be built round the GP/SWC / Swedish/Polish season. That is disastrous for the home fixture list but there seems to be little we can do about it because many fans want to see top riders. Those are the two basic problems that need to be overcome before anything else can be properly sorted. I would be interested to see any intelligent suggestions with the financial side properly costed but I haven't seen any yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Hook line and sinker That's one way out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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