orion Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 i must admit i never considered the old TS rule a problem and i dont recall anyone objecting to it either in the SS or anywhere Many because the internet and Speedway forums were not around in those days . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Many because the internet and Speedway forums were not around in those days . Yes we used to talk to one another!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) It shouldn't be forgotten that speedway has had this rule in one form or another for 50 years, and there's a very good reason why it has it. I have certainly seen several meetings this season which would have been dead and buried by heat 7 without it, and no doubt if it was ditched there would be people complaining about th5. Teams can often get back into a match as a result of gate positions . For, example, let's say the best gates are 1 and 3 and the visitors are off p2and 4 in heat 1. That means that in six of the first nine heats the visitors would be off the least favourable gates and naturally fall behind. Then in four of the next five heats they are off the best gates, on top of that their numbers 1 and 5 , invariably their best two , go off the least favourable gates in their first two races but get the best gates at the business end of the meeting includ,in heat 13. That is why even without the TR some teams seem to establish a lead in the first half of the meeting then appear to let their opponents back in the match. Off course it is not a hard and fast principle and some meetings have more even gates than others but most TR's seem to come at around heats. 7-10 ie at about the point where they are starting to get a run of better gatke positions. Next time you see a team get back into a match look at the gate positions when it happens. That is something that adds to the unfairness of the TR. Edited August 7, 2015 by E I Addio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Teams can often get back into a match as a result of gate positions . For, example, let's say the best gates are 1 and 3 and the visitors are off p2and 4 in heat 1. That means that in six of the first nine heats the visitors would be off the least favourable gates and naturally fall behind. Then in four of the next five heats they are off the best gates, on top of that their numbers 1 and 5 , invariably their best two , go off the least favourable gates in their first two races but get the best gates at the business end of the meeting includ,in heat 13. That is why even without the TR some teams seem to establish a lead in the first half of the meeting then appear to let their opponents back in the match. Off course it is not a hard and fast principle and smoke meetings have more even gates than others but most TR's seem to come at around heats. 7-10 ie at about the point where they are starting to get a run of better gatke positions. Next time you see a team get back into a match look at the gate positions when it happens. That is something that adds to the unfairness of the TR. I hadn't spotted that E I Addio. As you say - it makes it even worse. Thank you for pointing it out. (pardon the pun). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Teams can often get back into a match as a result of gate positions . For, example, let's say the best gates are 1 and 3 and the visitors are off p2and 4 in heat 1. That means that in six of the first nine heats the visitors would be off the least favourable gates and naturally fall behind. Then in four of the next five heats they are off the best gates, on top of that their numbers 1 and 5 , invariably their best two , go off the least favourable gates in their first two races but get the best gates at the business end of the meeting includ,in heat 13. That is why even without the TR some teams seem to establish a lead in the first half of the meeting then appear to let their opponents back in the match. Off course it is not a hard and fast principle and some meetings have more even gates than others but most TR's seem to come at around heats. 7-10 ie at about the point where they are starting to get a run of better gatke positions. Next time you see a team get back into a match look at the gate positions when it happens. That is something that adds to the unfairness of the TR. Not sure but in the old day did teams have choice of gates etc when they were behind ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Yep at 6 down they did So u could choose gates and replace two weaker riders with your top two Edited August 7, 2015 by waihekeaces1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Yep at 6 down they did Cheers so that was much fairer than now then forgotten about that gem ... Edited August 7, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Not sure but in the old day did teams have choice of gates etc when they were behind ?[/quotNot sure but in the old day did teams have choice of gates etc when they were behind ? Yes and the heatleaders could pick their own gate positions so they could go off 1 or 2 all night if the,y wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 ame="orion" post="2660135" timestamp="1438975989"]Not sure but in the old day did teams have choice of gates etc when they were behind ?[/quot Yes and the heatleaders could pick their own gate positions so they could go off 1 or 2 all night if the,y wanted. Which all shows that the old system was way, way more unfair than in its now. Basically, the usual suspects whinges have nothing to do with fairness, nothing to do with what's good and what isn't.. They just don't like change. Anything that changes from how it was they whinge about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Which all shows that the old system was way, way more unfair than in its now. Basically, the usual suspects whinges have nothing to do with fairness, nothing to do with what's good and what isn't.. They just don't like change. Anything that changes from how it was they whinge about. you mean how it was when crowds were 4 times what they are now just sayin.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 you mean how it was when crowds were 4 times what they are now just sayin.. Back when that nice man Jimmy Saville used to fix it for kids? And they built things out of that ultramodern, truely innovative material asbestos and it was perfectly acceptably to have 5 pints before driving. Yes, everything back in the 60s and 70s was better and we should go back to them days. Things move on. Thank God! But speedway just seems to refuse to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 you mean how it was when crowds were 4 times what they are now just sayin.. And that is point people were making ..it quite clear as has been shown how stupid and unfair that rule was but it never stopped them from going ..so when they say the new rule stops them it can't be true unless they were lying to themselves . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Back when that nice man Jimmy Saville used to fix it for kids? And they built things out of that ultramodern, truely innovative material asbestos and it was perfectly acceptably to have 5 pints before driving. Yes, everything back in the 60s and 70s was better and we should go back to them days. Things move on. Thank God! But speedway just seems to refuse to. Some say Speedway has moved on - some say it hasn't - I'm confused. There is nothing wrong with change if it is for the betterment of our Sport. The evidence of the attendance at Speedway these days would suggest that the changes have not exactly been a roaring success. And that is point people were making ..it quite clear as has been shown how stupid and unfair that rule was but it never stopped them from going ..so when they say the new rule stops them it can't be true unless they were lying to themselves . You are quite a Philosopher orion - I don't think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 you mean how it was when crowds were 4 times what they are now just sayin.. No they weren't.. the crowds had long gone before any of the changes you're complaining about... but don't let facts get in the way again. Speedway is in the mess it is because it simple HASN'T changed and has for too long pandered to the old fans. Rugby League and Cricket are two perfect examples where the old fans bitched about the radical changes made to the sport. End result, some of them don't go anymore, but they've been replaced by thousands more. Speedway has never taken the big step to overhaul and modernise its product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 There is nothing wrong with change if it is for the betterment of our Sport. The evidence of the attendance at Speedway these days would suggest that the changes have not exactly been a roaring success. k. I know one thing, if Ward and Holder were constantly going out on TS rides for Poole, ie 6 rides each per meeting, you wouldn't be watching Speedwáy , nor would I nor would loads of others. That really would be the ruination of the sport. Much as I loath the present TR rule I can see that bringing the old TS back would be a big step backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) Some say Speedway has moved on - some say it hasn't - I'm confused. There is nothing wrong with change if it is for the betterment of our Sport. The evidence of the attendance at Speedway these days would suggest that the changes have not exactly been a roaring success. You are quite a Philosopher orion - I don't think. The evidence shows that a lot more people had deserted the sport BEFORE any changes than after them but again, don't let the truth get in the way of the whinges. The sport lost the majority of its support between the early to mid 80's and the early 90's. At which point none of the things the old school complain about were around. Edited August 7, 2015 by BWitcher 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Speedway is so outdated but when you think about it,why.4 riders going around on powerful motorbikes with no brakes.it should be the most dangerous and exciting of sports.that's the way it should be marketed.not as a Cosy family sport 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Just had an idea but haven't properly thought it through yet, but how about keep,the TR but any rider nominated to go for double points can't be nominated for heat 15 ? That would stretch the TM's imagination a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Science Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 No they weren't.. the crowds had long gone before any of the changes you're complaining about... but don't let facts get in the way again. Speedway is in the mess it is because it simple HASN'T changed and has for too long pandered to the old fans. Rugby League and Cricket are two perfect examples where the old fans bitched about the radical changes made to the sport. End result, some of them don't go anymore, but they've been replaced by thousands more. Speedway has never taken the big step to overhaul and modernise its product. Don't be shy in giving us your ideas to modernise speedway ! The sport needs a silver bullet ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 Don't be shy in giving us your ideas to modernise speedway ! The sport needs a silver bullet ! I'm afraid the chance may well have gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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