PHILIPRISING Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 THE problem isn't people watching on TV because they are ... Sky averaging around 80,000, 150,000 for Swindon v Poole, 175,000 on Quest for a SWC meeting. The problem is that the vast majority of those people aren't paying at the turnstiles to watch a meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Utter rubbish. There is no point in carrying on a conversation with people who'll insist black is white just to have a good argument. That's not debate. Typical post. Carry on like this and your audience will be just the other trolls. What is the difference between a troll and a person researching items of interest to comment on? Or does one only become the former when the person replying makes a comment the person being replied to does not agree with? Perhaps I should have made my post clearer as it was a response to one person in particular which is the post I quoted, so change that to 'ex fan' not 'ex fans'. I'm all for expressing views and giving opinions what is wrong with the sport if it's constructive criticism. I do enough moaning myself if there are sunbreaks and endless laps of tractor grading to sort out a crappy track that should have been prepared properly before the match started not while it's on, but what is constructive about this post? I mentioned speedway to a friend who is a National sports journalist. He grinned and suggested its links towards one of Walt Disney's original cartoon characters! The clue is in 'MM'!!! Perhaps it's supposed to be funny and I'm just having a sense of humour failure. So you have posted these comments on one of the Facebook groups and other websites you're involved with? I mentioned speedway to a friend who is a National sports journalist. He grinned and suggested its links towards one of Walt Disney's original cartoon characters! The clue is in 'MM'!!! I don't seem to have come across it yet but would be interested to read the responses if you could tell me where to look please. Oh....and for the record I've been a Speedway fan for almost as long as you - 67 years - but I'm not just a follower I'm still a fan. No - these comments have not appeared on Facebook because they are history sites mainly concentrating on photographic memories. In any case, the comment I refer to by a journalist was only made on Sunday. Oh, BTW - can you differentiate between a speedway follower and a speedway fan? Edited August 4, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I certainly don't think it's guests that have stopped people attending speedway... I've never had a problem with guests to be fair...I've attended since the 70's and guests were about then and they didn't seem to be a problem when speedway was booming....Larry Ross seemed to guest for Belle Vue every other week before signing for them ! To be honest if a number 1 or a top ranked rider is missing then I'd sooner see a top line guest replace them than a young rider out of his depth...as an entertainment which is better for an attending fan ?....they'd be more entertained by a competitive guest helping keep the meeting close. Where it has changed though is that there are too many guests throughout teams now...I can't remember teams constantly arriving with 4 or 5 guests making up the team.....a top line guest to me is fine, 4 or 5 is taking the Mickey and how can fans relate to that as their team.....that's a bigger problem than in the past when there was less doubling up clashes and much less clashes with international speedway... The problem is there doesn't appear to be enough riders to go about..a lot of good tracks have disappeared , good racing tracks as well, most of those fans then stop attending and you are left with 8 Elite league clubs racing against each other too many times in a completely stop start season fighting against clashes from abroad with riders who quite often seem to put British speedway low down in their priorities....it's no wonder crowds have dropped....if you banned guests and somehow went to this squad system, that could never be afforded by most anyway, then you wouldn't get the crowds flocking back....it goes miles deeper than that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) Not really you said that speedway fans were not coming because of the silly rules as I said other sports have them and it does not stop them don't the fans used perception in those sports ? .. if a guest rule is stupid now then then is still was in the 1970's .. there is no reason why the perception would be any different No, I haven't said speedway fans are not coming because of the silly rules. I have said some of the rules make it difficult for some potential newbys to perceive speedway as anything other than a Mickey Mouse affair (7 riders v 6, a particular rider turning out for more than one team in a given league on successive days for instance). Of course perception changes otherwise we'd still be bear-baiting and dog and cock fights wouldn't be covert affairs. More recently, we'd still see folk on horseback, in red, blue or black jackets chasing foxes and hare coursing would be legal. Edited August 4, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) No, I haven't said speedway fans are not coming because of the silly rules. I have said some of the rules make it difficult for some potential newbys to perceive speedway as anything other than a Mickey Mouse affair (7 riders v 6, a particular rider turning out for more than one team in a given league on successive days for instance). Of course perception changes otherwise we'd still be bear-baiting and dog and cock fights wouldn't be covert affairs. More recently, we'd still see folk on horseback, in red, blue or black jackets chasing foxes and hare coursing would be legal. As I pointed out other sports have stupid rules as well ...if the perception was that newbies were put off by rules that make the sport mickey mouse then cricket f1 and a host of other sports would be having the same problems as speedway . Perception might have changed on cock fighting and Bear beating etc but I doubt if it's changed on stupid rules that make sports look mickey mouse If a newbie went to speedway in 1975 and you told that said person that there were guests rr etc then you got as much chance or that that person perceiving it as Mickey Mouse as you would if told a fan the same thing in 2015 . Edited August 4, 2015 by orion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 As I pointed out other sports have stupid rules as well ...if the perception was that newbies were put off by rules that make the sport mickey mouse then cricket f1 and a host of other sports would be having the same problems as speedway . Perception might have changed on cock fighting and Bear beating etc but I doubt if it's changed or stupid rules that make sports look mickey mouse Speedway these days seems very Mickey Mouse for all the reasons stated in previous Posts, not just mine, if it does not do something radical soon the Sport, as we know it, will be finished. I know that I don't go any more but I still love Speedway itself - but those who administrate the Sport seem as if they are prepared to allow it to drift in to oblivion.... Another point - attacking Tony Mac for pointing out, to me, the bleeding obvious is way out of line. Why am I not surprised though. "The Truth, you can't handle the Truth". Colonel Nathan R. Jessep. (Fictional Character). From the Film - A Few Good Men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Blachshadow Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) As I pointed out other sports have stupid rules as well ...if the perception was that newbies were put off by rules that make the sport mickey mouse then cricket f1 and a host of other sports would be having the same problems as speedway . Perception might have changed on cock fighting and Bear beating etc but I doubt if it's changed on stupid rules that make sports look mickey mouse If you really bracket the off-side rule or the forward pass rule (for instance) with a team fielding two, three or four (of 6) riders, borrowed for the night from rival teams in their own league then we really must agree to differ. As you post, folk you introduce are happy watching the bikes go round. Folks I introduce ask questions. Edited August 4, 2015 by Vincent Blackshadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 If you really put the off-side rule or the forward pass rule (for instance) in the same bracket as teams fielding two, three or even four (of six) riders borrowed for the match from rival teams in the same division then we'll have to agree to differ. As you posted earlier, folk I introduce to speedway ask questions and many find the situation laughable, folk you introduce just watch the bikes. We'll leave it at that. I never put the offside rule forward at all ...i put forward things that were mickey mouse in f1 and cricket and it has little effect on the crowd and could put forward many more . As i already said if you were taking your friends in 1975 and there were guests and rr then they as much chance as asking the same questions or being put off as they have now . I would expect if they saw a great meeting with guests and rr i am sure they have more chance of coming back than watching a crap match with both sides with teams with there full 1-7 Speedway these days seems very Mickey Mouse for all the reasons stated in previous Posts, not just mine, if it does not do something radical soon the Sport, as we know it, will be finished. Speedway has always seem mickey mouse ...sadly the old fans look over that fact ...you can find as many mickey mouse rules when speedway was massive as you can now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I never put the offside rule forward at all ...i put forward things that were mickey mouse in f1 and cricket and it has little effect on the crowd and could put forward many more . As i already said if you were taking your friends in 1975 and there were guests and rr then they as much chance as asking the same questions or being put off as they have now . I would expect if they saw a great meeting with guests and rr i am sure they have more chance of coming back than watching a crap match with both sides with teams with there full 1-7 Almost Orion, but not quite. The 'great match' is not really relevant. Quality of racing seems to have very little effect on crowds.. you only have to look at tracks such as Scunthorpe and Peterboro for that. In 1975 though there would very likely have been a big, vibrant crowd.. so the likelihood of them returning would have been good. A big vibrant crowd can make an average meeting seem a great one.. a small crowd a great meeting seem an average one. It's part of the reason why we hear how great the racing was back in the day. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 My memory may be playing tricks with me. Perhaps Arnieg can tell me if I'm right or not. I'm sure there was a 70s match where Doug Underwood was the only Reading rider in a side that otherwise consisted of 6 guests. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I never put the offside rule forward at all ...i put forward things that were mickey mouse in f1 and cricket and it has little effect on the crowd and could put forward many more . As i already said if you were taking your friends in 1975 and there were guests and rr then they as much chance as asking the same questions or being put off as they have now . I would expect if they saw a great meeting with guests and rr i am sure they have more chance of coming back than watching a crap match with both sides with teams with there full 1-7 Speedway has always seem mickey mouse ...sadly the old fans look over that fact ...you can find as many mickey mouse rules when speedway was massive as you can now . Its just Mickey Mouse has fell out of favour by the looks of it then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 (edited) No - these comments have not appeared on Facebook because they are history sites mainly concentrating on photographic memories. In any case, the comment I refer to by a journalist was only made on Sunday. Oh, BTW - can you differentiate between a speedway follower and a speedway fan? I'd like to bet you wouldn't dream of posting them either. The second part of your question is easy to answer. A speedway fan is someone who still attends - in other words a fanatic which in this concept is what 'fan' is short for. A speedway follower is someone who no longer attends matches for various reasons but still takes an interest in the sport via social media, T.V., forums etc. Edited August 5, 2015 by Gemini 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I was at Buster Chapman's first match as Kings Lynn promoter in 1993....he rode out onto the track on a speedway bike dressed as Mickey Mouse.....he said people called speedway a Mickey Mouse sport so here's a Mickey Mouse promoter !..... So speedway was Mickey Mouse 22 years ago....at least ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatwick Rocket Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 My memory may be playing tricks with me. Perhaps Arnieg can tell me if I'm right or not. I'm sure there was a 70s match where Doug Underwood was the only Reading rider in a side that otherwise consisted of 6 guests. Yes, well almost, it was 1976 and it was Leicester. I don't have the details to hand but the missing Lions would have included Ray Wilson (think he had broken his leg), Reidar Eide, Tony Lomas (think he had fallen out with the promoter), Ila Teromaa and Pepe Teromaa (think they had international commitments) and with the last absentee possibly being Grzegorz Szczepaniak or Alan Emerson. I can remember stuff like this from 40 years ago but I couldn't tell you anything about who did what last year! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Lady Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 It's not rules that stop newbies from going to speedway, that might happen further down the line, it's cost. Following a comment made to a friend I checked tickets for various events at Snetterton both cars and bikes and for a WHOLE DAY they range between £18 -£25. Compare that with £17 at King's Lynn with possibly 2 hours entertainment. If you are undecided where to go to see some kind of motorsport and have never seen any live, which would you choose? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 No - these comments have not appeared on Facebook because they are history sites mainly concentrating on photographic memories. In any case, the comment I refer to by a journalist was only made on Sunday. Oh, BTW - can you differentiate between a speedway follower and a speedway fan? I'd like to bet you wouldn't dream of posting them either. The second part of your question is easy to answer. A speedway fan is someone who still attends - in other words a fanatic which in this concept is what 'fan' is short for. A speedway follower is someone who no longer attends matches for various reasons but still takes an interest in the sport via social media, T.V., forums etc. The comments i refer as appearing on Facebook would have no relevance to this thread. They are just replies to other FB and deal with historical happenings - no relevance at all to this thread. I like your clarification of the difference between a speedway supporter and a speedway follower. Many of us change from the first to the second for various reasons - age, no local track for example. However, you appear to have not clarified my query as to "what is a troll" and how one becomes clarified as such by other BSF members? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 It's not rules that stop newbies from going to speedway, that might happen further down the line, it's cost. Following a comment made to a friend I checked tickets for various events at Snetterton both cars and bikes and for a WHOLE DAY they range between £18 -£25. Compare that with £17 at King's Lynn with possibly 2 hours entertainment. If you are undecided where to go to see some kind of motorsport and have never seen any live, which would you choose? Agree,value for money comes into it.BSB bikes certainly fits that category IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 It's not rules that stop newbies from going to speedway, that might happen further down the line, it's cost. Following a comment made to a friend I checked tickets for various events at Snetterton both cars and bikes and for a WHOLE DAY they range between £18 -£25. Compare that with £17 at King's Lynn with possibly 2 hours entertainment. If you are undecided where to go to see some kind of motorsport and have never seen any live, which would you choose? Cost is also pretty irrelevant. It's all to do with how the sport is regarded. Speedway is deemed as 'uncool'. Until its deemed as a 'cool' thing to do, things won't change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orion Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Was there really anything as barnpot as the double tr bollox? Yea the tac sub rule ..that gave 73% more false results that the double points rule . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 (edited) .....Gatwick Rocket....... I can remember stuff like this from 40 years ago but I couldn't tell you anything about who did what last year! Last year? I can't remember any details from last week's matches, apart from blinking track grading and getting soaked at Leicester. .....gustix.....However, you appear to have not clarified my query as to "what is a troll" and how one becomes clarified as such by other BSF members? Why should I as I've never called you or anyone else a troll. Edited August 5, 2015 by Gemini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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