Grand Central Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 What you say gc is true in some ways, though don't agree with the specifics. I'm not sure how Ivan would have stayed sharp enough to race GPS without racing in the BL, though appreciate he may have skipped the odd meeting -certainly no modern gp rider has been able to successfully opt out of league racing, if only because the income is needed to fund the gp efforts. It has also proved incredibly difficult to retain titles, so while I expect mauger would have dominated the early 70s I'm not sure he would have significantly increased his number of titles. Ole was also pretty professional, and then of course you have the pure talent of Collins and lee Well, obviously nonone can know about these hypothetical things. But I genuinely do not think that Mauger would need the BL to 'keep sharp' at all (In the context we are supposing). It was several matches a week in those days, remember, so it was more jading than it was 'energising'. And he would have been immensely better prepared to just do whatever was needed in in the 1970s GPs than most others; except perhaps Olsen. No modern GP rider who is a potential champion would dream of dropping out of league racing in the modern era. PROVIDED the league is POLAND and that pays such fantastical sums of cash. So that theory really remains untested by anyone of Mauger's calibre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) This 'fantasising' about how the GPs round have worked out in retrospect is all a little contrived, to me. The truth would have been very different, I feel. As everything we know now about those days would be changed in many ways we cannot properly figure. Someone like Ivan Mauger would have set himself up with a totally different approach. He may have opted out of the BL in the early seventies and devoted everything on the GPs. He would have put together an invincible team. Don't think anyone else would have stood a chance for the whole decade; and with the reduced workload his career would have been extended in to Greg Hancock territory, quite easily. The old boy would have been champion many times more than 'just' six. I don't agree with tha GC even though you have a great case i could not see him dominating even though he did raise the standard and took speedway to a new professional level.I don't think he would of won six titles with the GP system in place also how would he have coped with the new tape rule.?He was a great rider but for me i could not see Ivan dominating a GP series like say Hans would of Nielsen to me could of won at least 6 to 8 titles. Edited August 6, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I don't agree with tha GC even though you have a great case i could not see him dominating even though he did raise the standard and took speedway to a new professional level.I don't think he would of won six titles with the GP system in place also how would he have coped with the new tape rule.?He was a great rider but for me i could not see Ivan dominating a GP series like say Hans would of Nielsen to me could of won at least 6 to 8 titles. New tape rule? What has that got to do with this discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 New tape rule? What has that got to do with this discussion? He won his six titles with the touching the tapes rolling rule i liked it myself but it is now harder i believe.Saying that Ivan is the best gater i have ever seen so it maybe would not of been a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Ivan would have been fine with different start rules. Gundersen struggled more than anyone in the first season, but then averaged over 11 in the second. A true pro like Ivan would have adapted as quick as anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Certainly top eight i have him in front of Hans and Erik,a great rider could gate could pass was an excellent team man team rider what a brilliant race style he had.I agree with that,but he was truely a great rider.Never ever a team man - only rode for himselfBoocock, Harris - they're the excellent Brandon team men - Olsen never was 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Never ever a team man - only rode for himself Boocock, Harris - they're the excellent Brandon team men - Olsen never was Red i respect your view bigtime, but maybe you should ask Nicholaijsen, MIller, Knudsen a few ex) Olsen really helped those blokes and at times baby sat them.Also i felt at times he got a good tune out of Guglielmi, you are right Olsen was not the best team man and he was selfish but he could team ride. And he helped other riders when Central televised those meeting's he came across as a decent team man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I don't agree with tha GC even though you have a great case i could not see him dominating even though he did raise the standard and took speedway to a new professional level.I don't think he would of won six titles with the GP system in place also how would he have coped with the new tape rule.?He was a great rider but for me i could not see Ivan dominating a GP series like say Hans would of Nielsen to me could of won at least 6 to 8 titles. New tape rule? What has that got to do with this discussion? Don't be so surprised Grand Central - this is the BSF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) . This meeting shows Olsen at his best the race with Collins was superb, (on 15mins) i believe he could of won a GP series if it was about in this year. Edited August 8, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 Without a doubt a gp series that season would have been a battle between pc and Olsen for the title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 Without a doubt a gp series that season would have been a battle between pc and Olsen for the titleCollins was hurting he was nowhere fit that's why I say Mauger was not the certainty to win a GP series in the 70s up until 79 1973 i think Ivan would of won it the rest of the years he had some real tough opposition.Michanek ,Ole,Collins,Lee, . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I don't think mauger would have won a gp series after 74 tbh, I think Collins/Olsen would have won the next four and then Lee in 79. Mauger would have still been on the podium most seasons though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 I don't think mauger would have won a gp series after 74 tbh, I think Collins/Olsen would have won the next four and then Lee in 79. Mauger would have still been on the podium most seasons thoughI actually think Ivan,s best years were from 68/73 after that i think he was more of a be on the rostrum man.He was a great rider but this notion of him winning more than six titles in a GP format i can't see it it was a tough era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Ivan's whole season revolved around winning that World Final. If there had been a GP series he would have still (imo) been one step ahead of the rest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Ivan's whole season revolved around winning that World Final. If there had been a GP series he would have still (imo) been one step ahead of the rest. Exactly right. This 'extrapolating backwards' using the results from the 'old system' to judge what would have happened under a totally different system is comically flawed. EVERYTHING would have been different. In many, many ways. Ivan Mauger's 'professional' approach and commitment to being World Champion would have been decisive. He would have been massively better positioned to set up a 'GP team' of back up, so much more akin to the twenty first century guys. Most of the others would have been floundering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Exactly right. This 'extrapolating backwards' using the results from the 'old system' to judge what would have happened under a totally different system is comically flawed. EVERYTHING would have been different. In many, many ways. Ivan Mauger's 'professional' approach and commitment to being World Champion would have been decisive. He would have been massively better positioned to set up a 'GP team' of back up, so much more akin to the twenty first century guys. Most of the others would have been floundering. I think you forget that Olsen was very well organised, also you have to say Michanek,Collins,Lee,would of been mighty stiff opposition.Also in Mauger's six title wins was he fortunate? in 72, 77 i see what you are saying GC but after 1973 was Ivan dominating speedway i think not his time was the late 60s. Edited August 10, 2015 by sidney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Interesting subject this one. I would be really interested to see what tmc's sales figures show for each of these single rider DVDs. Not prurient interest in his business. But to relate the sales and interest in the individual riders. Olsen, was someone I really disliked. Absolutely hated, as a rider, in the 70s and 80s But I have to also admit that as a 'grown up' I think he was brilliant, as well. Probably the best Danish rider to date.. Better than Nielsen, Gundersen, Pedersen. Them all. But I could not bring myself to pay one single penny to buy a DVD of him. Let alone £16. Daft isn't it? Sorry Tony. That's OK, it's all about opinions and taste. Just for fun, and to satisfy your curiosity, why don't you have a go at listing the 1-to-5 in our 'Racing Series sales league table' and I'll respond with the latest confirmed positions. It might surprise a few. Reminder, the table so far includes: Lee, Sanders, Carter, Kelly Moran and Penhall. Edited August 10, 2015 by tmc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 That's OK, it's all about opinions and taste. Just for fun, and to satisfy your curiosity, why don't you have a go at listing the 1-to-5 in our 'Racing Series sales league table' and I'll respond with the latest confirmed positions. It might surprise a few. Reminder, the table so far includes: Lee, Sanders, Carter, Kelly Moran and Penhall. My guess would be 1-Michael Lee 2-Kenny Carter 3-Kelly Moran 4-Billy Sanders 5-Bruce Penhall 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac Posted August 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 My guess would be 1-Michael Lee 2-Kenny Carter 3-Kelly Moran 4-Billy Sanders 5-Bruce Penhall Actual (as of July 17) 1-Carter (50% more than BP) 2-Penhall 3-Moran 4-Sanders 5-Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Central Posted August 10, 2015 Report Share Posted August 10, 2015 Actual (as of July 17) 1-Carter (50% more than BP) 2-Penhall 3-Moran 4-Sanders 5-Lee Shows what I know! I had put Mike Lee first as I thought that had been out the longest, but that was the 'Mike The Bike' DVD I was thinking of, not the 'Racing' Series. 'Kenny Carter Number One'. "It's written on my Van" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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