screm Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 We might just have to face a basic fact of economics. If there is no demand, then there will be no supply. With crowd levels dropping at tracks virtually all over the Country, sadly this may be the case. I would like to see Berwick continue in the PL but on current crowds that clearly isn't sustainable, and no matter how hard the promotion try the people who used to come, don't anymore and the new fans aren't covering those missing spaces. Berwick may be better off in the NL, where costs aren't as high, I think the NL next year might be a viable option for a few other clubs other than Berwick, and taking a season or two away from the PL as it is now might be no bad thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigeddiechek Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 With crowd levels dropping at tracks virtually all over the Country, sadly this may be the case. I would like to see Berwick continue in the PL but on current crowds that clearly isn't sustainable, and no matter how hard the promotion try the people who used to come, don't anymore and the new fans aren't covering those missing spaces. Berwick may be better off in the NL, where costs aren't as high, I think the NL next year might be a viable option for a few other clubs other than Berwick, and taking a season or two away from the PL as it is now might be no bad thing. You're missing a lot of the other contributory issues. There is more to where the club is than purely finances. You should know that better than most, Mr Monks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I am not entirely convinced by the idea of NL being a cost effective alternative. As was covered on the other thread, the NL is a southern centric league just now, you also have to factor in sides like Kings Lynn and Coventry competing in the league. If fans are facing struggles attending their own track to see an EL team, and an NL team what are the chances of them travelling away to see the EL side AND/OR the NL side at Berwick. Over the past few seasons Cradley have been absurdly dominant so the chances are you wouldn’t even be able to put forward the idea of a winning side (which was a massive upside when Berwick returned in the Conference league before). There isn’t a massive pool of riders in the North, even though it is increasing so you are still going to have to factor in travel costs for riders coming from the South, simply to race NL Speedway. And finally, just how well attended would it be? How low can crowds be before it genuinely isn’t worth the rent and maintenance of the stadium in order to actually run a meeting? More so the cost of say Eastbourne, and the travelling costs involved. Even ignoring all of the factors on a personal note I think you get by if you bring a club back and run it in the NL. The fans in the area haven’t seen the sport for a while, they are enthused by it, heroes come easily if you don’t know who you are watching. If it is a side dropping and you’ve been spoiled with GP meetings, World Champions and PL success I think it is easy for even the diehards to have serious doubts about what they are watching. Edited July 28, 2015 by sparkafag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 NL could work if Scunny, Redcar and Worky dropped down as well but we wouldn't survive on our own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penchev Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 With crowd levels dropping at tracks virtually all over the Country, sadly this may be the case. I would like to see Berwick continue in the PL but on current crowds that clearly isn't sustainable, and no matter how hard the promotion try the people who used to come, don't anymore and the new fans aren't covering those missing spaces. Berwick may be better off in the NL, where costs aren't as high, I think the NL next year might be a viable option for a few other clubs other than Berwick, and taking a season or two away from the PL as it is now might be no bad thing. Their has been no mention of national league in the statement, so why talk about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Their has been no mention of national league in the statement, so why talk about it? It is because some fans love the idea of false opposition. It doesn’t just apply with speedway, or even Berwick fans, it is applied across the board in many sports, it is seen as a comfort blanket. Already we have had the club needs someone rich, the NL is a decent alternative under new owners (who?) and now the NL would work with sides who aren’t even in it yet, none of these things are actually possibilities yet, until they are they aren’t a true opposition to the statement released from the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Their has been no mention of national league in the statement, so why talk about it? Would it not be an option though. You're missing a lot of the other contributory issues. There is more to where the club is than purely finances. You should know that better than most, Mr Monks. Yesterday`s statement asks for people to make a financial investment and/or help with running the club on a daily bases, ok there may be other matters but from the statement the current promotion seem to be looking at the financial side. Surely this isn't a time for cheap shots. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkafag Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Surely this isn't a time for cheap shots. Maybe rather than attempting to decide when it is and isn’t acceptable to take cheap shots it best not to bother doing it at all, but at least you have admitted what was aimed at you for long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catch Me If You Can Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 There's no doubt, apart from the sugar daddy teams, the PL is in big trouble. Something has to be done to cut costs, cos I can't see a significant increase in people coming through the gate anytime soon. Well said. I read John Anderson notes in programme Saturday against Rockets and he seems to be hinting at that as says he doubted if we will ever see likes of a team as Scunthorpe winning league again. Does that mean the sugar daddys are Directors at clubs such as Edinburgh, Glasgow, Somerset?? He also said he was fed up with teams coming thinking they were better than Berwick and trying to stamp all over him! Interesting that it was Edinburgh who were there the previous Saturday. Wonder what went on? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinh88 Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Is there really a solution to Speedway in the country? Far to many teams struggling at the minute, who do you get extra punters through the gate? The Berwick promotion have tried everything they can to increase the crowd, for example sky meetings, Grand prix meetings etc. but have failed to sustain any crowd levels. Perhaps people now pick and choose what meeting they go to? A loyalty scheme would perhaps help for example after attending 4 meetings get in free on the 5th meeting. We have had decent crowds when against the likes of Glasgow and Edinburgh, but always going to have poor crowds against the likes of Plymouth and Rye house. The elite league has been a dying product for years and what do they do? bring out a fast track system in a bid to save thier own skin, (which should of been done at premier league level imo) And as for some of the rules they come out with is barking for example Adam Ellis not allowed to ride in the Premier League how can that be a good thing? and that Wilson dean bloke not being able to ride at premier league level unless a 7 point average? Only speedway would know how to constantly kick itself in the nuts time and time again. Time for drastic chance in the way things are run in this country and by whom they are run, but unfortuntlay the damage appears to have been done and its gone to the dogs as they say. Berwick most definatley have been hampered by the injuires to Ben and Claus, and replacements have been very very difficult to find, (Sheffield with Simon Stead as another example) Interesting to hear the comments on Sky from Lakeside when they were missing AJ and the effect that had on their results. I for one hope that Berwick Speedway can be saved and will continue, but right now i fear the worst. Totally agree on the EL fast track system, certainly watered down the el even more I don't think there is a way to save the Sport here, fans have been shat on for years but as long as the Monarchs and Poole are winning its all good.... The riders aren't entirely blame less, an increasing amount who don't attend meetings when it suits scoring maximums in other countries and then scoring 3 in the UK. Or some who sign ride a meeting then don't come back. Crowds are down everywhere, Tai Woffinden doesn't race here our flagship marketing asset... That being said I still think Britain is a great place to learn your trade, but the modern day rider has changed... times have changed maybe the fans have too As for Berwick? Not good enough over the 7 years. We have had a few bright sparks, Stormy, Clews and Ashworth who took it to the next level. We had to say our goodbyes to legends Rymel and Makovsky. Crowd levels and results don't lie, there is still a market for Speedway in Berwick. But after the falling out with the Supporters club pre season morale among even "die-hards" was rotten. I hope Berwick come to tapes under a new promotion next year. However a change in promotion would be for the best whatever level we may drop too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcol Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 We had to say our goodbyes to legends Rymel and Makovsky. i miss em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRackBandit Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Bit of a random question but Does the Speedway pay the BRFC SC rent per meeting or a sum per year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigeddiechek Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Would it not be an option though. Yesterday`s statement asks for people to make a financial investment and/or help with running the club on a daily bases, ok there may be other matters but from the statement the current promotion seem to be looking at the financial side. Surely this isn't a time for cheap shots. It wasn't a cheap shot. The statement also said it is not only the financial burden. Bad mouthing, and some pretty unsavoury, persistent stuff on the Internet is no fun for anyone to be on the receiving end of. OK if you are a PL football manager worth millions, different story then. Not when you are fighting tooth and nail to keep the club you love alive, though. NL has not been mentioned as an option, why run a lower league and still lose money (there are lots of fixed costs)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Im not sure its down to the SCB etc to curb costs it down to the clubs. Set sensible pay brackets within the club and stick to them for example £40 per point for heat leaders, £30 second string & £20 at reserve. If you move in the riding order your money changes too? It might be that many riders say no way to those terms but see how many will be prepared to sign when they still have no team place as the season gets closer. It would weed out the money men & get those who truly desire to ride. So a rider cant have new bikes every year or has to take a job to make it add up. What you will be left with is those with a desire to be involved. Obviously these are figures pulled from the air but the basic principle is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To The Point Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Bit of a random question but Does the Speedway pay the BRFC SC rent per meeting or a sum per year? Per meeting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Maybe rather than attempting to decide when it is and isn’t acceptable to take cheap shots it best not to bother doing it at all, but at least you have admitted what was aimed at you for long enough. Point taking, but it was posted the other about not taking cheap shots at this time so you`d think some should practice what they preach. That apart there has been so good debate on here, and some decent suggestions, particularly from Spittalbandit, one thing is sure from reading these pages, we ALL want speedway to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Costs need to be cut in every apartment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigeddiechek Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'll reiterate, it was not a cheap shot. You know exactly what I meant. I'm not sure there has been much that has directly addressed the points in the statement. Spittalbandit's is the only one, really. Hopefully he's been in touch as there seems to be a 3 week window to try and put things in place. I suppose not many of us will know any potential investors ( maybe Taffy?), so we are reverting to the same old suggestions that don't really offer pertinent solutions. Either someone joining the current promotion or a completely new ownership. I don't mind as long as we still have speedway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To The Point Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'll reiterate, it was not a cheap shot. You know exactly what I meant. I'm not sure there has been much that has directly addressed the points in the statement. Spittalbandit's is the only one, really. Hopefully he's been in touch as there seems to be a 3 week window to try and put things in place. I suppose not many of us will know any potential investors ( maybe Taffy?), so we are reverting to the same old suggestions that don't really offer pertinent solutions. Either someone joining the current promotion or a completely new ownership. I don't mind as long as we still have speedway. My pension won't stretch that far, also my accountant as told me if I get involved, he will personally kick me around Berwick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arson fire Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'll reiterate, it was not a cheap shot. You know exactly what I meant. I'm not sure there has been much that has directly addressed the points in the statement. Spittalbandit's is the only one, really. Hopefully he's been in touch as there seems to be a 3 week window to try and put things in place. I suppose not many of us will know any potential investors ( maybe Taffy?), so we are reverting to the same old suggestions that don't really offer pertinent solutions. Either someone joining the current promotion or a completely new ownership. I don't mind as long as we still have speedway. Didnt you say Taffy had a small time poxy shop on another thread not so long ago, and you were an astute business man with contacts around the globe?? You also said youd pay £20 per meeting on another thread....If so you are seriously failing your club, not investing or sharing the business acumen that god gave you 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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