Scunthorpe Scorpions Vs Ipswich Witches ( P L) - Friday, July 17th (7.30pm)

[montie]

Seems Tungate just fancied giving Josh a spray of shale and it all went wrong..doubt very much he meant have him off in the way he did

 

But I think the wording of his statement is what gets me..the video shows that his statement is total beau locks.....and that to me tells a story

 

Anyway...as they say,all publicity is good publicity

 

What is a bit of stick in the eye is people had paid £15 to watch a great meeting...and Tungate spoiled that as the final heats with Auty,king and Tungate going at it in a close meeting was taken away from the paying public by his actions

 

Heats 13 and 15 could have been brilliant

[Chris]

The whole track is only 285 metres.

Exactly.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

The whole track is only 285 metres.

and to say he could/shouldve shut off on bend 4 as he had no chance is absurd!

Race to the finish always IMO - Davies may have ef of drop a chain and then how siily would Rohan

look if had shut off turn 4!

Still too much doubt for me from what ive seen.

Now if we had the Halifaxtiger angle video it might be more conclusive.....

[eric i]

The camera doesn't capture the Lunna Morris incident but my take on it was Morris stuck his leg out to cover the move of Lunna but he was already along side and ended up kicking him.

[Chris]

He was never catching Davies, they were never side by side or that close throughout the entire race. Knock the throttle off sensibly and no incident. He wanted an incident though.

 

I read Tungate statement the other day and from what he said, it has shown to be complete bull ocks

[racers and royals]

He was never catching Davies, they were never side by side or that close throughout the entire race. Knock the throttle off sensibly and no incident. He wanted an incident though.

 

I read Tungate statement the other day and from what he said, it has shown to be complete bull ocks

Exactly as I saw it on the video-Tungate was well out of order and there should be no place for that sort of thing in Speedway.

[Albert]

Because some of your own fans admitted he should've been excluded for taking Tungate out. The ref should've excluded Auty because it was not first bend bunching as it happened coming out of second bend and shouldn't be all four back.

 

That's your opinion and your entitled to it. In my opinion, Tungate caused his own mishap, good trap out of gate one, his decision to head for no mans land out wide on bend two, in effect, he stuffed himself. He was primary cause in my eyes.

 

Its all about opinions, agree or disagree...it happened... ref did what he thought was right...

What happened afterwards was avoidable, spiteful, it ruined the match.... that said, it also added drama to what was an entertaining night on and off track.

[stu219]

Watched the you tube clip now a few times and the only thing that is certain is that the evidence is inconclusive. Any thing else that people are saying on here are only opinions. If that evidence was shown in court it would be thrown out before the case started. I wasn't there so only the video to go by though. Sounds I missed a cracker of a meeting lol.Roll on the match at Ipswich in a few weeks!

[June]

Because some of your own fans admitted he should've been excluded for taking Tungate out. The ref should've excluded Auty because it was not first bend bunching as it happened coming out of second bend and shouldn't be all four back.

At Scunny we see races like ht. 10 most weeks. Their all after that race line, otherwise they end up in the fence on bend 2 or at the back.. From the open stand at the start line it looked like first bend bunching however Stephan was lucky on the 1st bend in the race with Wilko. I could clearly see the clout he gave wilko. I was expecting Stephan to be excluded. Needless to say; The ref did not have the best of nights!

[Bash]

 

That's your opinion and your entitled to it. In my opinion, Tungate caused his own mishap, good trap out of gate one, his decision to head for no mans land out wide on bend two, in effect, he stuffed himself. He was primary cause in my eyes.

 

So he gets knocked off by Auty and that's his own fault. Really, that's your opinion, thank god you're not a ref there would be sit in's every week.

[thebaron]

Because some of your own fans admitted he should've been excluded for taking Tungate out. The ref should've excluded Auty because it was not first bend bunching as it happened coming out of second bend and shouldn't be all four back.

Bash; which is a position many would have accepted rightly or wrongly. From where we filmed it looked like Josh could be excluded. But seeing it back Tungate has switched to the outside and Josh really has to switch back inside for a clear run out of turn two. Trouble is Tungate is squeezed into a narrow line right up to the fence and nigh on impossible to stay on. I wont blame Tungate for trying to shut off the charge from Josh. Equally Rohan cannot have it both ways Josh has the right to switch back for safety and any advantage.

 

Other than that Josh wipes him out from behind. So first run is purely a racing incident. Ref calls what he sees and I think on the balance he got it right.

 

Trouble was Tungate did not see it that way and in the heat of it took his frustration into the re-run and was determined to let Josh know how he felt. He did not intend to injure Josh; but his actions were careless and unprofessional; and bring the sport into disrepute.

 

The Ref for his own reasons fails to appreciate his jurisdiction over the meeting;and then from there everything else unfolds.

 

I want to be fair to Rohan (let me stop calling him Tungate). Hes a great rider; I hate riders to be pilliored like he was by the crowd. He gets my full respect as a rider as they all do. But if he looks at it he might have to put his hand up and say. You know what I'm better than that and I let myself; Ipswich and the sport in general down there.

Edited July 19, 2015 by the outsider

[Broadsider]

Totally agree, it is difficult to be certain from my video clips.

But in my opinion the facts are:

 

1. In the initial running, Rohan was for sure not impressed with Josh's manoeuvre out of turn 2 and which seemed to leave him with nowhere to go but down.

2. The immediate impression was that Josh had been excluded. It was therefore a slight surprise and relief to realise the referee had called all four back.

3. Stefan Nielsen didn't seem to be buying that decision as he headed back to the pits and similarly Chris Louis seemed to quietly express his dissatisfaction when Rob attempted to gain a reaction on the mike.

4. I think it's fair to say Rohan lined up for the rerun just a tad "put" out and lets say, keen to prove a point or two?

5. Rohan misses the start and Josh and Alex head him home.

6. Rohan runs over the finish line in 3rd place and is actually nowhere near Alex. Now either Rohan loses concentration or momentarily full control of his machine(unlikely as he is professional motorcyclist?) or perhaps more likely?, he's still a little wound up and frustrated to realise Josh has finished head of him and when perhaps otherwise Josh might have been excluded? Added to which of course his team are at the end of a 1-5 reverse.

7. So race over and with Josh ahead and slowing around turns 1-2, Rohan's machine runs out wide towards him. There is a coming together out of turn 2 and this wipes out Josh in a heap! My initial thought was that Rohan had possibly taken out Josh with kick but in fact the rear of Rohan's machine does swing out for some reason and takes Josh's balance.

8. Even trying to give Rohan some benefit of the doubt that there was no intent on this.The one glaringly damming fact is that whilst he might not have intended to deliberately wipe out Josh, he does never the less manage to dramatically collide with him when the race is over. However and this is the dammnng bit, surely anyone who has just accidentally collided with an opponent,causing a fall and even injury, would then, on regaining full control themselves, have pulled up, turned around and gone straight back to his fellow stricken professional to show some definite concern and remorse for an injured colleague? More especially when that opponent has only just returned from serious injury! The fact is Rohan deliberately chose to do non of that and clearly this reaction in itself partially demonstrates Rohan's regrettable motivation in this instance.

9. Rohan's conduct was certainly unprofessional, at best reckless and at worst dangerous. Granted, he may well have lost control but doesn't simple rule of the road apply? Surely the rider following behind still has some responsibility, at the end of the race, to show basic care and awareness of the rider ahead? Josh certainly doesn't have wing mirrors on!

10. Rohan's actions and reactions whilst still within the meeting and under Referee Peter Clarke's control were certainly questionable and therefore in my opinion the Referee in this instance should have used his ultimate discretion to exclude Rohan from the rest of the meeting for dangerous and ungentlemanly conduct towards an opponent.

This one literally had absolutely everything a speedway meeting could chuck at you. Let's hope that amongst all the mayhem and particularly after the astonishing highs of the previous week, there's still enough good will in there to have the punters rolling back for more?

All the best to the Scorpions on their appeal and if I can be of any further assistance to the Club and investigations relating any issue arising from Friday's meeting then I will of course be pleased to help.

[Baldyman]

So does anyone know how josh is? Did he visit the hospital for x rays or anything like that?

[bullet]

So does anyone know how josh is? Did he visit the hospital for x rays or anything like that?

 

 

Well he is not riding tonight.

 

People have got the impression he broke his arm but it was his hand, the same hand that he had just had the wires out from the previous break and it had already swollen up double when he was protesting.

 

He may not know a definitieve answer as untill swelling goes down they wont x-ray but im sure he will have been to haveit checked and the club will inform us when anything definitive is known. (unless being a tough yorkshireman he is just sat at home leaving it sucking up the pain!!)

[Shadders]

Shads yes I was above the track stood on the verandah between bends 1 -2 great view of it from there 😉

You need to check out the definition of "birds eye"

[bullet]

Just further on the original running of the race its swings and roundabouts and you can make a case for all 3 possible outcomes from the ref.

What most people who do not watch at the EWR everyweek (and even then depending where you stand you will notice it better) do not see the incident and options that happen every week.

 

Gate 4 will always go straight around the outside as by that point in the meeting it is the dirt line and also with the camber on bend 1 into 2.

If they miss it completly then nothing happens as the rest are gone but if they gate well then accidents happen.

 

When Gate 1/2 gate they go straight into bend 1 across everyone to the dirtline scrub their speed off as they hit it then try and follow it round.

 

depending when both gate 1 and 4 get there depends what happens.

in the first run Tungate gets there first just before josh but the man off gate 4 always then has the greater speed so has 3 options (4th option of ease up is not an option as Tungate himself says that speeds you up!)

 

Option 1 plough straight into the back of the rider (Nike ended up doing that to Ryan for his accident)

 

Option 2 try to move wider into heavy shale and hang on for dear life/plough into the fence (king in ht 1 did this and ran out of room on wet track and came down)

 

Option 3 pull hard and cut back and use the speed advantage (but hope there is no-one inside like when Howe went across nike for glasgow so nike tried the cutback instead straight into Nick Morris who was also trying to move across to the dirt line)

 

Josh went for option 3 and had the speed to go past but they have clipped (although it looks minimal)

 

 

So who is to blame the rider on 4 is following the natural line around the outside and is cut up by a roadblock as they scrub thier speed off to avoid themselves going into the fence. All 3 options have a very high chance of 1 or both riders coming down.

 

Either gate 1 is to blame for blocking a rider on his natural line, Gate 4 for not managing to miss said blocker or all 4 back as its a racing incident as both got the the point of no return too close together (as gate 1 has every right to chaser the dirt im not saying the manouver itself is dangerous)

 

 

Watch the rerun slowly again and the exact same thing happens except Tungate is just slightly slower to get there so josh had the option to squeeze slightly wider and went around him but even then it was close and both could have come down again.

 

 

Its the refs call to decide which way he sees it (and very fast usually with no benefit of replays) so any of his choices are correct depending on his interpretation (although we only see the lights we never get the refs version of which way he saw it)

 

 

The main reason for this post is there is no intent from what happened in the first run to take riders off by josh its just racing but too many people are saying it was dirty when it was nothing of the sort. If the ref had excluded Josh then that is his decision and no doubt it would have been explained to dave peet on the phone as he would have thought it harsh same as if tungate had been excluded ipswich would not have been happy. Im surprised they did not query ht 1 as just becasue there is no contact the way the bend happens earlier can influence where the rider is on bend 2 and possibly on the floor. King went for the go around option and had no grip left in the wet shale and went down.

 

 

Too much today seems to be that someone is always to blame for an incident and has to go but why??? even on the third lap a collision can be caused by six of one and half a dozen of the other why cant it be a rerun with all 4 (or race off just those 2 riders for that position!)

 

Rant over time to work!!

[Baldyman]

Think it's about time this is put to bed. Just going over and over the same stuff.

 

Hopefully it will make the return match a bit more interesting.

[bullet]

Think it's about time this is put to bed. Just going over and over the same stuff.

 

Hopefully it will make the return match a bit more interesting.

 

Needs some interest have you seen our away performances lately!! (although hopefully will be better with ryan back although newcastle is not a good track for him!)

 

We can all aruge for days on here but it will all be with the SCB and BSPA now so we will see what they say when they make a decision whenever that may be (although you would have thought it would be pretty quick as "potentially" depending which way they view it then it could have major repercussions for team building/Playoffs positions)

Edited July 19, 2015 by The Scunthorpe bullet

[Baldyman]

Have you seen our home performances ?

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

The enquiry by the SCB should be before the next Witches meeting so everyone can then just get on with it whatever their decision.