Tsunami Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 Not sure they are more dangerous, an air bag landing has to be better than wood, concrete etc. While I can see that hitting the mesh fence may be similar to an air bag, there is still the risk of the posts holding them up. The injury to Lewis Rose {televised on SKY} is testimony to that. My real concern with air bags currently is their lifting from the ground with the bikes impact prior to the arrival of the rider. Can something not be done to remedy this situation. If the Newcastle track guru Tsunami or any others with a similar role would care to comment, I would like to know their views. The injuries to both Chris Holder and Jarek Hample were caused by this occurrence to name two of the more high profile cases. The fence at Newcastle cannot rear up and expose the support fence, as there are 4 straps on each panel attached the bottom of the fence which go under the kickboard attached to the bottom of the wire fence, and the straps are clipped up the back of the fence with clips called carabinos ?. The fence will only distort at the bottom, but not lift. Both Ludde and Kerr have been under the fence, pushing the rubber skirt underneath, but because they can only go under the width of the fence, and that i run the fence quite soft with inflation, a rider is not really trapped, and is quite easily extracted. Another point that is being discussed, is was it a fault that the pit gate opened with Lewis's crash. In my opinion it was not a fault, but an advantage, as if he had hit the pits gate that was moving backwards, that would be considerable softer that a fixed solid unforgiving wooden structure. in his case he may have hit the solid gate post, and the gate was pushed open by the force of the bike. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I can't remember who but someone suggested the bags contain water, not completely filled but just the bottom bit would do as the weight would hold it down. Would that not be a good idea? The other problem is a bike popping them before the rider hits it, they do need to be secured which I find alarming that they don't seem to be at the moment. I think thick foam would work better The fence at Newcastle cannot rear up and expose the support fence, as there are 4 straps on each panel attached the bottom of the fence which go under the kickboard attached to the bottom of the wire fence, and the straps are clipped up the back of the fence with clips called carabinos ?. The fence will only distort at the bottom, but not lift. Both Ludde and Kerr have been under the fence, pushing the rubber skirt underneath, but because they can only go under the width of the fence, and that i run the fence quite soft with inflation, a rider is not really trapped, and is quite easily extracted. Another point that is being discussed, is was it a fault that the pit gate opened with Lewis's crash. In my opinion it was not a fault, but an advantage, as if he had hit the pits gate that was moving backwards, that would be considerable softer that a fixed solid unforgiving wooden structure. in his case he may have hit the solid gate post, and the gate was pushed open by the force of the bike. He was lucky not to hit the fence post, rider safety needs a rethink asap as I feel more can be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I can't remember who but someone suggested the bags contain water, not completely filled but just the bottom bit would do as the weight would hold it down. Would that not be a good idea? It's not really practical. Some tracks have to remove their fences totally after each meeting, Lakeside, Ipswich, Sheffield, Eastbourne,etc. How would you get rid of the water being that heavy and the track curator would not want that amount of water, if it got absorbed into the track on the corners after each meeting. That would increase the manpower required and make it very messy for them to work with, remember these fences often have to be removed after a meeting when it could be dark and late, say 10,30pm. Other tracks that are allowed to hang their fences all week, or are dropped like Newcastle, would cause a lot of strain in the upper fastenings or/and be very damaging over time and very smelly with the stagnant water. Good idea from barncooseboy, but not really practical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadrianDog Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 The fence at Newcastle cannot rear up and expose the support fence, as there are 4 straps on each panel attached the bottom of the fence which go under the kickboard attached to the bottom of the wire fence, and the straps are clipped up the back of the fence with clips called carabinos ?. The fence will only distort at the bottom, but not lift. Both Ludde and Kerr have been under the fence, pushing the rubber skirt underneath, but because they can only go under the width of the fence, and that i run the fence quite soft with inflation, a rider is not really trapped, and is quite easily extracted. Another point that is being discussed, is was it a fault that the pit gate opened with Lewis's crash. In my opinion it was not a fault, but an advantage, as if he had hit the pits gate that was moving backwards, that would be considerable softer that a fixed solid unforgiving wooden structure. in his case he may have hit the solid gate post, and the gate was pushed open by the force of the bike. A very reassuring post Tsunami, the straps you talk of are not the norm I think though, perhaps they should be mandatory. A topic for discussion during your next G and T session with George perhaps? Your point re. the gate opening is truly sound, the speedway gods smiled upon Lewi thankfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) I remember at arena they didn't have a fence.how times change. Edited August 6, 2015 by robert72 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadrianDog Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I remember at arena they didn't have a fence.how times change. Some around me every Sunday can remember cork helmets with scarves and Ivan Mauger getting away with what James Sargeant is {not regularly enough imo.} getting called for at least once a meeting. Times change, sometimes even for the better. Air fences, even with their flaws are a positive. The thought of a modern bike out of control with no fence to stop it would mean all crowds at least 50m further from the action. While F1 style run off areas would be the safest for sure, no ground has the space for it so the air fence is the next best thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Normski Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Berwick have the polyfoam fence and since it was put in place it has probably saved a lot of riders from serious injuries. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Berwick have the polyfoam fence and since it was put in place it has probably saved a lot of riders from serious injuries.Agree,and the fence at Berwick seem very secure virtually no movement in it when hit by bikes and certainly never seems to lift up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert72 Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Berwick have the polyfoam fence and since it was put in place it has probably saved a lot of riders from serious injuries. I have always thought a polyfoam fence to be the best choice for rider safety. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I have always thought a polyfoam fence to be the best choice for rider safety. A lot more expensive, but I think easier to repair during a meeting. I remember Wethers crash on TV early last year. Not nice, but he was OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 I have always thought a polyfoam fence to be the best choice for rider safety. A lot more expensive, but I think easier to repair during a meeting. I remember Wethers crash on TV early last year. Not nice, but he was OK. probably no good for tracks within dogs tracks tho ???,,, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 probably no good for tracks within dogs tracks tho ???,,, True, as you can't 'drop' the fence, it has to be removed so the doggie punters can see their little legs. FACT. That's the reason why we dish the track out to get banking, instead of doing what everyone else does and raise the corners. This of course means more chance of water laying on the inside line. Another point with the resistance of bags is the grade of material that the panel is made of. Peterborough's fence seemed very flappy on Sunday, and observers did say the bag was torn easily. We were given a choice of 13 grades of thickness of material, and agreed and elected to use a mid grade which is thicker than most. It's also why we run the fence with a bit less inflation. Doesn't tear easily, and no riders bouncing back onto the track into the path of the following riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekimba Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 True, as you can't 'drop' the fence, it has to be removed so the doggie punters can see their little legs. FACT. That's the reason why we dish the track out to get banking, instead of doing what everyone else does and raise the corners. This of course means more chance of water laying on the inside line. Another point with the resistance of bags is the grade of material that the panel is made of. Peterborough's fence seemed very flappy on Sunday, and observers did say the bag was torn easily. We were given a choice of 13 grades of thickness of material, and agreed and elected to use a mid grade which is thicker than most. It's also why we run the fence with a bit less inflation. Doesn't tear easily, and no riders bouncing back onto the track into the path of the following riders. Hi Tsunami someone on here mentioned filling the bottom 3rd of each panel with water to weigh it down, is that feasible and would it work in your opinion ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 when was the last time you belly flopped into a swimming pool. it hurts like feck. water is a mass although soft to touch it is quite hard when compressed and has to move quickly. remember that belly flop you did at school. plus a lot of weight pushing down on a riders body if he goes under it. now that's going to kill some one.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Hi Tsunami someone on here mentioned filling the bottom 3rd of each panel with water to weigh it down, is that feasible and would it work in your opinion ? In my Opinion It is not practical due to the reasons I outlined in #443. A very reassuring post Tsunami, the straps you talk of are not the norm I think though, perhaps they should be mandatory. A topic for discussion during your next G and T session with George perhaps? Your point re. the gate opening is truly sound, the speedway gods smiled upon Lewi thankfully. Pop along before the meeting on Sunday, and i'll show you the fence and fastenings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 In my Opinion It is not practical due to the reasons I outlined in #443. Pop along before the meeting on Sunday, and i'll show you the fence and fastenings. could you not put a bit of sand in, I take it that it should remain quite dry inside the panels, so on impact it would move freely ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badge Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Look at this guys: https://twitter.com/LewisKerrRacing 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Good stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple.H. Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Think its fair enough to say it's not far off a bloody miracle, daresay most of us left Peterborough fearing the worst. Loving the fancydan trousers too. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 could you not put a bit of sand in, I take it that it should remain quite dry inside the panels, so on impact it would move freely ? try kicking a bag of sand to move it, you will break you leg. air is best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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