lucifer sam Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Stop blaming the ref- are you mad !!! the one and only person ultimately responsible for the cock-up is the ref. Racers & Royals, which begs the question of why you protested about a 46-44 win for Oxford at Reading in 1997, and got the result changed to 45-45, after the ref allowed the Oxford team manager (John Tremblin) to make an illegal reserve change in Heat 1. I tend to think that you were correct to protest on that ocassion. And similary, the result from last night should also be changed. Yes, the ref have never allowed it in the first place, but the Redcar team manager is similarly culpable. Illegal ride, therefore needs to be taken off the result. All the best Rob Edited July 10, 2015 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear_Bottom Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Just seen the copy Redcar have submitted of their team line up to the printers for next week's match. 1 Lasse Bjerre 8.042 Jan Graversen 4.72 R/R3 Matej Kus 6.834 Jonas Andersen 7.005 Stuart Robson 6.686 Adam Roynon 4.217 Tai Woffinden 3.00 Don't forsee any problems..?! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Racers & Royals, which begs the question of why you protested about a 46-44 win for Oxford at Reading in 1997, and got the result changed to 45-45, after the ref allowed the Oxford team manager (John Tremblin) to make an illegal reserve change in Heat 1. I tend to think that you were correct to protest on that ocassion. And similary, the result from last night should also be changed. Yes, the ref have never allowed it in the first place, but the Redcar team manager is similarly culpable. Illegal ride, therefore needs to be taken off the result. All the best Rob Touche! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northyorksbear Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 You have Redcar suffer because of their inability to know the rules. Or You have Somerset suffer because of Redcars inability to know the rules. When you look at it like that, Redcar have to be the team to suffer. They got it wrong. Somerset have done nothing wrong. You have Redcar suffer because of their inability to know the rules. Or You have Somerset suffer because of Somerset's inability to realise that Redcar (and ref) are not following rules and object at the time. Just a slightly different take it does seem that no one was aware of the error at the time! Whilst it is now obvious that a mistake occurred I don't think result will be altered, problem for Somerset is that to protest about a specific heat (makeup of riders or result) you have to lodge this before next heat, I don't think this was the case. Also you can't protest about Statement of Fact - this includes any ruling a referee makes, so if the referee ruled Kus could take RR ride then this is now fact and irreversible! Got a feeling this may rumble on, but while ref and Redcar may been the wrongdoers as I say big problem from Somerset is that they didn't object or say anything, so by definition accepted what was happening. Not necessarily right and fair, but hey this is Speedway!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclone Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Whilst it is now obvious that a mistake occurred I don't think result will be altered, problem for Somerset is that to protest about a specific heat (makeup of riders or result) you have to lodge this before next heat, I don't think this was the case. Also you can't protest about Statement of Fact - this includes any ruling a referee makes, so if the referee ruled Kus could take RR ride then this is now fact and irreversible! Could you quote the Official source of the above? There may well be a time limit to lodge a protest (together with fee) but I think it is about 48 hours after the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Stewart Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Apparently the r/r was checked and agreed with the referee before the match. This is normal, I've seen this happen plenty of times. I can't see how the result can be changed given that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northyorksbear Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Could you quote the Official source of the above? There may well be a time limit to lodge a protest (together with fee) but I think it is about 48 hours after the match. SCB website to get Regulations for 2015 then Section 2 for Statement of Fact definition 3.4.1 for section on Protests 3.4.3 c for the timescale to object about a heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Interestingly on the BSPA site there are detailed reviews of the nights other matches and just one line for this one. Also links to official ref scorecards (complete with averages) for the other two but not this one! Agree with above posts re timing of protests re line ups. I believe they were rewritten last year to avoid post meeting protests and amendments wherever possible. It may be harsh on Somerset but it seems they didnt protest in time. Think this will rumble on a bit more yet!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Interestingly on the BSPA site there are detailed reviews of the nights other matches and just one line for this one. Also links to official ref scorecards (complete with averages) for the other two but not this one! Agree with above posts re timing of protests re line ups. I believe they were rewritten last year to avoid post meeting protests and amendments wherever possible. It may be harsh on Somerset but it seems they didnt protest in time. Think this will rumble on a bit more yet!! Yes I noticed that too. Still no answer as to who the ref was, because they are clearly at fault whatever the other arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) No match report on the Somerset website either (just point scorers). I'm wondering if we'll see a SCB statement in due course on this one... All the best Rob Edited July 10, 2015 by lucifer sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffeboy Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 What an absolute ridiculous situation this is, a team has blatantly messed up, broke the rules albeit in error and some of the posters on here are advocating that maybe Somerset are at fault by not complaining quick enough. You could not make it up. Come on authorities bite the bullet your official mucked up anything else than three points for the Rebels is a travesty. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/speedway/redcar-bears-pull-dramatic-fightback-9627903 mentions somerset lodged an immediate appeal , but ref dowling had given the ok for Kus to be used before meeting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 If Somerset protested on the night, then the points have to be deducted. Kus's ride was clearly illegal. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Yes I noticed that too. Still no answer as to who the ref was, because they are clearly at fault whatever the other arguments. Local paper states it was Dave Dowling Latest PL GSA issued on the 3rd July sees the change to Robson, hard to see how Dowling would have missed it if he had checked. Edited July 10, 2015 by bigcatdiary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semion Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Re-run the meeting... Seems the just thing to do. Ref Cocked it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenga Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 so good to see the rebels getting scammed by the underdogs. somerset have tried it on for the last 2 years with average fixing. bears do it once , with the blessing of the ref. hope they get awy with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) Local paper states it was Dave Dowling Latest PL GSA issued on the 3rd July sees the change to Robson, hard to see how Dowling would have missed it if he had checked. It was Dave Dowling. Its a pity this business has overshadowed what was a highly entertaining meeting - at least partly as a result of the much maligned tactical ride rule. What was most pleasing was to see riders using the outside of the 4th bend to pass - the impressive Jonas Andersen in particular. I haven't seen that happen at STMP for years. Edited July 10, 2015 by Halifaxtiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Taken from Ben Duffill's facebook 'I want to give my version of last nights events in the Redcar V Somerset meeting Going off the averages printed in last nights programme Matej Kis was eligible to take an R/R ride. Before the meeting began, the referee in charge was questioned as to whether Matej would be the one who is allowed to take an R/R ride and it was confirmed that he was the one we had to use. Matej took his ride in heat 8 and before this, the change was submitted to the referee (Somerset were fully aware of this at the time) as required and it was accepted. At this point no protest was made by the Somerset management, nor after the race, so they were obviously happy and in agreement that this was ok. Not until after heat 12 when Redcar had taken the lead was a protest made. Both sides had been in agreement up until this point, as was the referee who was in charge. Lets turn this on its head. Had I tried to use Stuart Robson in heat 8, this would have been rejected by both the Referee and Somerset management and we would have been in a situation where we were having to appeal. We acted under the guidance of the referee in charge and both sides were in agreement. So the questions I'm asking are: Why did Somerset not protest before the meeting regarding Matej Kus being confirmed as the one to take an RR ride? Both sides were in agreement at this point. Why was an appeal not placed before and immediately after Heat 8? Appealing after Heat 12 once Redcar were leading does sound like sour grapes to me. Redcar came out on top on the night, it was a great performance and the result should stand.' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 You have Redcar suffer because of their inability to know the rules. Or You have Somerset suffer because of Somerset's inability to realise that Redcar (and ref) are not following rules and object at the time. Just a slightly different take it does seem that no one was aware of the error at the time! Whilst it is now obvious that a mistake occurred I don't think result will be altered, problem for Somerset is that to protest about a specific heat (makeup of riders or result) you have to lodge this before next heat, I don't think this was the case. Also you can't protest about Statement of Fact - this includes any ruling a referee makes, so if the referee ruled Kus could take RR ride then this is now fact and irreversible! Got a feeling this may rumble on, but while ref and Redcar may been the wrongdoers as I say big problem from Somerset is that they didn't object or say anything, so by definition accepted what was happening. Not necessarily right and fair, but hey this is Speedway!! Not only have Somsrset lost out of this currently, but Redcar have gained on the other teams in the league too. It's not just that they've gained an advantage over Somerset. The whole thing stinks really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Taken from Ben Duffill's facebook 'I want to give my version of last nights events in the Redcar V Somerset meeting Going off the averages printed in last nights programme Matej Kis was eligible to take an R/R ride. Before the meeting began, the referee in charge was questioned as to whether Matej would be the one who is allowed to take an R/R ride and it was confirmed that he was the one we had to use. Matej took his ride in heat 8 and before this, the change was submitted to the referee (Somerset were fully aware of this at the time) as required and it was accepted. At this point no protest was made by the Somerset management, nor after the race, so they were obviously happy and in agreement that this was ok. Not until after heat 12 when Redcar had taken the lead was a protest made. Both sides had been in agreement up until this point, as was the referee who was in charge. Lets turn this on its head. Had I tried to use Stuart Robson in heat 8, this would have been rejected by both the Referee and Somerset management and we would have been in a situation where we were having to appeal. We acted under the guidance of the referee in charge and both sides were in agreement. So the questions I'm asking are: Why did Somerset not protest before the meeting regarding Matej Kus being confirmed as the one to take an RR ride? Both sides were in agreement at this point. Why was an appeal not placed before and immediately after Heat 8? Appealing after Heat 12 once Redcar were leading does sound like sour grapes to me. Redcar came out on top on the night, it was a great performance and the result should stand.' The only way I can see KUS being able to take the RR ride instead of Robson was if an effective date had been missed of Robsons new GSA and it wasn't effective last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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