Cliffeboy Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Taken from Ben Duffill's facebook 'I want to give my version of last nights events in the Redcar V Somerset meeting Going off the averages printed in last nights programme Matej Kis was eligible to take an R/R ride. Before the meeting began, the referee in charge was questioned as to whether Matej would be the one who is allowed to take an R/R ride and it was confirmed that he was the one we had to use. Matej took his ride in heat 8 and before this, the change was submitted to the referee (Somerset were fully aware of this at the time) as required and it was accepted. At this point no protest was made by the Somerset management, nor after the race, so they were obviously happy and in agreement that this was ok. Not until after heat 12 when Redcar had taken the lead was a protest made. Both sides had been in agreement up until this point, as was the referee who was in charge. Lets turn this on its head. Had I tried to use Stuart Robson in heat 8, this would have been rejected by both the Referee and Somerset management and we would have been in a situation where we were having to appeal. We acted under the guidance of the referee in charge and both sides were in agreement. So the questions I'm asking are: Why did Somerset not protest before the meeting regarding Matej Kus being confirmed as the one to take an RR ride? Both sides were in agreement at this point. Why was an appeal not placed before and immediately after Heat 8? Appealing after Heat 12 once Redcar were leading does sound like sour grapes to me. Redcar came out on top on the night, it was a great performance and the result should stand.' What is this all about then . Firstly "Going off the averages printed in the programme" so that`s how we do it eh, we don`t look at the official averages we just have a look in the programme and take it from there do we. Ref said it was ok to use Matej because he the "official" presumably read it from the Redcar programme, very professional, rather than knowing who was officially eligible knowing r/r was being used. Why on earth would Somerset protest at this stage if the ref and the Redcar team had confirmed Matej was eligible?I should imagine that all teams that plan to use r/r are fully aware of who or who cannot ride, its called organisation. Not until heat12 did Somerset protest apparantly. Like a lot of people I was following the match on the updates site, almost immediately after heat 8 fellow posters on there were challenging the validity of the the result , is it impossible to presume that this has then got back to the Somerset management , hence the complaint and rightly so. Finally Somerset would probably been in agreement over Kus at the beginning because that was the info put before them,why would another team try and give false info. Does every other team management know all of the averages of all of the other riders ata given time,of course not. It was not a "great performance" because you did not "win" fairly, if by deducting the 6 points you still run out winners, fair enough and a slap on the wrist from the powers that be. Unfortunately you dont and Somerset deserve the three points for a great away performance. To all the Somerset haters like Jenga notice and no time do I mention the words cheat, it was an honest mistake which needs to be put right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Replay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffeboy Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 No definitely. No definitely.Guessing you are either Edinburgh or Glasgow, nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 [quote name="Cliffeboy" post="2645070" timestamp="1436545063 Does every other team management know all of the averages of all of the other riders ata given time,of course not It rather depends on the club but I would be surprised if any club doesn't have someone who is not up to speed with GS Averages and how they affect his or hers team on a match by match basis. Just needs to be checked prior to the meeting, a point I think ultimately comes under the meeting referee and why team lists are provided in plenty of time to the meeting official and BSPA office so this kind of problem is avoided. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvm Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 It looks to me that everyone, Team Managers, Referee and crowd all took the details of the programme to be correct, It was only those not at the meeting who actually looked up the latest GSA's and spotted the mistake. I would assume some minutes after the heat was run, someone spotted the Internet/Updates going into meltdown and decided to check, and found out that what was being said on the internet was correct, and as a result made a protest. It's all a bit messy and will be interesting to see how the BSPA sort it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 What is this all about then . Firstly "Going off the averages printed in the programme" so that`s how we do it eh, we don`t look at the official averages we just have a look in the programme and take it from there do we. Ref said it was ok to use Matej because he the "official" presumably read it from the Redcar programme, very professional, rather than knowing who was officially eligible knowing r/r was being used. Why on earth would Somerset protest at this stage if the ref and the Redcar team had confirmed Matej was eligible?I should imagine that all teams that plan to use r/r are fully aware of who or who cannot ride, its called organisation. Not until heat12 did Somerset protest apparantly. Like a lot of people I was following the match on the updates site, almost immediately after heat 8 fellow posters on there were challenging the validity of the the result , is it impossible to presume that this has then got back to the Somerset management , hence the complaint and rightly so. Finally Somerset would probably been in agreement over Kus at the beginning because that was the info put before them,why would another team try and give false info. Does every other team management know all of the averages of all of the other riders ata given time,of course not. It was not a "great performance" because you did not "win" fairly, if by deducting the 6 points you still run out winners, fair enough and a slap on the wrist from the powers that be. Unfortunately you dont and Somerset deserve the three points for a great away performance. To all the Somerset haters like Jenga notice and no time do I mention the words cheat, it was an honest mistake which needs to be put right. They should do. I'm pretty sure that Tim Sugar knew the correct gsa of every opponent in every match for which he was team manager. It now seems both teams are arguing that they should get the benefit of the doubt because of their incompetence. At least nobody has argued any mitigation for Mr. Dowling. I say replay (should get a better crowd than a Tyne/Tees challenge) It is also an interesting case study in the role of the internet as the comments on the live updates and the ability of ordinary fans at the track to look up the green sheets on their smart phones has meant that this surfaced before the completion of the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffeboy Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh dear getting bored now. At the end of the day one team aided by an official have made an honest mistake which has cost the other team three points. Why on earth would Somerset who have done nothing wrong jeopardise the one point they have in a replay. If this was the other way around all the Somerset haters would be going ga ga now, where are you now if you are so noble you should be backing the Rebels for the points just like you would be if it was your own team. Please do not bore me by saying "oh if it was us we would agree to a replay" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Nick Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Does anyone know who does the dvds for Redcar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Does anyone know who does the dvds for Redcar? Used to be http://www.webjam.com/tapesup , but don`t know if they still do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Nick Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Used to be http://www.webjam.com/tapesup , but don`t know if they still do Just had a look and it doesn't look like they do anymore but thanks anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Just had a look and it doesn't look like they do anymore but thanks anyway Don't know who does them, but if it is any consolation, there was definitely a camera there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heedthebaw Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Yes I noticed that too. Still no answer as to who the ref was, because they are clearly at fault whatever the other arguments. Michael Breckon ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Oh dear getting bored now. At the end of the day one team aided by an official have made an honest mistake which has cost the other team three points. Why on earth would Somerset who have done nothing wrong jeopardise the one point they have in a replay. If this was the other way around all the Somerset haters would be going ga ga now, where are you now if you are so noble you should be backing the Rebels for the points just like you would be if it was your own team. Please do not bore me by saying "oh if it was us we would agree to a replay" we know you're a bit miffed - calm down it'll get sorted and if its not sorted in your favour its not the end of the world is it you're just getting more and more agitated and theres plenty on here who'll wind you up more Redcar made a mistake, the ref made a mistake and it appears Somerset may have made a mistake by not protesting at the right time lets keep calm 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndbendbeerhut Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 When told it was Kus down for an RR ride before the meeting, any good TM would have known this to be wrong and acted upon it. Not hard to use mobile to download aves and give to ref (even though he should have had a copy). Redcars error in putting Kus in, Somersets for not knowing the averages and the refs for not checking. Meeting has finished and result declared so should stand..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Re-run the meeting... Seems the just thing to do. Ref Cocked it up. And the promotion, for asking what was plainly wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringbackHalifax Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Official scorecard now on bspa website and clearly shows the score chart with Junes averages. New ones declared on 24th June for July meetings. Redcar gain from redcar mistake. Redcar must have known over the last 2weeks that Kus has gone above Robson especially as they were making changes and looking at averages. 6 point deduction is coming their way. Interesting that Robson having had the crash wouldn't have been ready for the ht8 double ride anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Official scorecard now on bspa website and clearly shows the score chart with Junes averages. New ones declared on 24th June for July meetings. Redcar gain from Ref`s mistake. Redcar must have known over the last 2weeks that Kus has gone above Robson especially as they were making changes and looking at averages. 6 point deduction is coming their way. Interesting that Robson having had the crash wouldn't have been ready for the ht8 double ride anyway Edited for accuracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Edited for accuracy To be honest, any one in their right mind can tell that all three parties are at fault for various reasons here. Playing the blame game is pointless and doesn't solve anything. The only thing we do know for sure is that a rule has been broken and needs to be solved now. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Johnston1 Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Official scorecard now on bspa website and clearly shows the score chart with Junes averages. New ones declared on 24th June for July meetings. Redcar gain from redcar mistake. Redcar must have known over the last 2weeks that Kus has gone above Robson especially as they were making changes and looking at averages. 6 point deduction is coming their way. Interesting that Robson having had the crash wouldn't have been ready for the ht8 double ride anyway I think an average or averages were wrong in the Berwick program (could have been at an away meeting). The referee had the announcer read out the correct averages before the parade (saying to me that the referee checked the averages despite it not making any difference to the team line-ups). I cannot remember but I think it was last season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homer Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 To be honest, any one in their right mind can tell that all three parties are at fault for various reasons here. Playing the blame game is pointless and doesn't solve anything. The only thing we do know for sure is that a rule has been broken and needs to be solved now. What rule exactly the ref determined the averages being used before match and both team`s agreed , Redcar questioned the use of Kus and were told it was fine before the start and dummerset complained when they were getting beat . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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