TwoMinuteWarning Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Treat them like animals .... put them in starting pens like greyhounds ... instead of chasing the tin hare they could be chasing a bunch of twenty pound notes ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 It seems that most prefer gate and go and the risk of a top rider being excuded less lightly as they historically were the ones caught out and the underdogs gifted points at their expense .Many times you would see Mauger return to the pits after breaking the tapes, loved the rider but would often make a meeting more interesting happy days !!! I've read this a few times to make sure I hadn't misunderstood.. You are seriously suggesting that the 'top riders' were the ones who struggled under the old system and of all people you've chosen Ivan Mauger to prove your point???? That goes against everything I've ever read about, heard about and seen from video footage. Mauger was meant to have been the master of that method of starting?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 I've read this a few times to make sure I hadn't misunderstood.. You are seriously suggesting that the 'top riders' were the ones who struggled under the old system and of all people you've chosen Ivan Mauger to prove your point???? That goes against everything I've ever read about, heard about and seen from video footage. Mauger was meant to have been the master of that method of starting?? Indeed he was, the starts in the 70s and early 80s were farcical, the tape touching rule is one of the best rules introduced in the last 40 years. It now need taking a stage further though, if it were possible to police it accurately, then any rider who moved even a fraction should be out. The nonsense of flyers and the constant re starts needs eradicating. It is supposed to be a reflex action start, not a who is the best guesser test. At the very least where a rider is warned that should carry for the rest of the meeting with another offence resulting in exclusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Indeed he was, the starts in the 70s and early 80s were farcical, the tape touching rule is one of the best rules introduced in the last 40 years. It now need taking a stage further though, if it were possible to police it accurately, then any rider who moved even a fraction should be out. The nonsense of flyers and the constant re starts needs eradicating. It is supposed to be a reflex action start, not a who is the best guesser test. At the very least where a rider is warned that should carry for the rest of the meeting with another offence resulting in exclusion Mauger was the best/ most consistent gater i ever saw he never seemed to ever rear or lift at the start Kilby was the best gater i ever saw he just was not as consistent as the galloping Mauger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Mauger was the best/ most consistent gater i ever saw he never seemed to ever rear or lift at the start Kilby was the best gater i ever saw he just was not as consistent as the galloping Mauger. Sidney, we're agreeing on something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Mauger was the best/ most consistent gater i ever saw he never seemed to ever rear or lift at the start Kilby was the best gater i ever saw he just was not as consistent as the galloping Mauger. Yes indeed Sidney. I suspect Ivan would have adapted to the system prevalent in his time and been a prolific gater whatever the era. It wasn't (still isn't) about simply dropping the clutch and ringing the bikes neck and Ivan was an absolute master of the right amount of revs, body position and clutch set up for any track conditions. Nowadays of course they have to have the throttle on the stop and feather the clutch to control drive to the first turn. To be honest, apart from Erik Gundersen, who struggled no end initially, all the top starters adapted and things were pretty much as before without the farce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yes indeed Sidney. I suspect Ivan would have adapted to the system prevalent in his time and been a prolific gater whatever the era. It wasn't (still isn't) about simply dropping the clutch and ringing the bikes neck and Ivan was an absolute master of the right amount of revs, body position and clutch set up for any track conditions. Nowadays of course they have to have the throttle on the stop and feather the clutch to control drive to the first turn. To be honest, apart from Erik Gundersen, who struggled no end initially, all the top starters adapted and things were pretty much as before without the farce Michael Lee did and would of struggled with the new rule over a period i believe, he shouldn't have but could not except the change.Also when i first see Michael ride i did not think his gating was his strongest point,from 78 onwards he improved it bigtime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yes indeed Sidney. I suspect Ivan would have adapted to the system prevalent in his time and been a prolific gater whatever the era. It wasn't (still isn't) about simply dropping the clutch and ringing the bikes neck and Ivan was an absolute master of the right amount of revs, body position and clutch set up for any track conditions. Nowadays of course they have to have the throttle on the stop and feather the clutch to control drive to the first turn. To be honest, apart from Erik Gundersen, who struggled no end initially, all the top starters adapted and things were pretty much as before without the farce Gundersenusually had one tapes exclusion a meeting in the first season but he got used to it and was just as fast a hater as ever so you would assume top riders like Mauger would easily adapt.......Michael Lee was one of the biggest rollers ever , great rider but an absolute cheat at the starts at time and the old system was ideal for him......he never got used to the new system but didn't really hang around long enough to try really.... I would agree that the tape touching rule was probably the best rule introduced.....the old starts were dramatic and added to the tension but a lot of times were completely unfair....even Peter Collins wasn't averse to the odd roller or two .......it is much fairer now for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Michael Lee did and would of struggled with the new rule over a period i believe, he shouldn't have but could not except the change.Also when i first see Michael ride i did not think his gating was his strongest point,from 78 onwards he improved it bigtime. Very true, I forgot about Michael, he definitely failed to adapt. Such a shame really because after a troubled 81 and 82 season he got himself going in 1983 and could have built on that in 1984. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I've read this a few times to make sure I hadn't misunderstood.. You are seriously suggesting that the 'top riders' were the ones who struggled under the old system and of all people you've chosen Ivan Mauger to prove your point???? That goes against everything I've ever read about, heard about and seen from video footage. Mauger was meant to have been the master of that method of starting?? I think Mauger was also a master of faffing around at the gate to unsettle the opposition. I have heard that whenever Colin Pratt was out against Mauger he would just sit at the pit gate with his engine stopped until Mauger finished all his messing around and eventually settled down, then Colin would get his mechanic to push him off and line up with a relatively cool clutch. Pratts laconic comment nwas apparently on the line s of " That (blank blank) can p**s around burning his clutch out if he wants to but I'm not going to". Not everyone was a laid back as Pratty though. I think a lot of Maugers skill was that a lot of riders were psyched out by him before they even came to the tapes. Edited July 13, 2015 by E I Addio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 (edited) I think Mauger was also a master of faffing around at the gate to unsettle the opposition. I have heard that whenever Colin Pratt was out against Mauger he would just sit at the pit gate with his engine stopped until Mauger finished all his messing around and eventually settled down, then Colin would get his mechanic to push him off and line up with a relatively cool clutch. Pratts laconic comment nwas apparently on the line s of " That (blank blank) can p**s around burning his clutch out if he wants to but I'm not going to". Not everyone was a laid back as Pratty though. I think a lot of Maugers skill was that a lot of riders were psyched out by him before they even came to the tapes. Quite agree. Ivan controlled others at the gate, especially Georgie Hunter, who if Ivan even twitched, would drive through the tapes and get excluded. Mauger was the master tactician and had a brilliant memory of what worked against certain riders(and certain referees). Edited July 13, 2015 by Tsunami 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemini Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 .....Oldace..... 70s and early 80s were farcical, the tape touching rule is one of the best rules introduced in the last 40 years. Completely agree. I've just watched a DVD of the June 26th Coventry v Belle Vue match and it's made me realise just how much messing around still goes on at the starts. No wonder matches take 2 hours to get through. Presumably riders must have a set ritual that they have to go through before they settle but in Bomber's case it seemed to be repeated over and over again. Touch back, touch arm, touch neck, then repeat endlessly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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