JC! Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) THAT some riders were offered 10 grand to ride them. When Kelvin Tatum first rode a GTR at Prague for pre-SGP social media purposes there was no expectations that GP riders would suddenly jump off their GMs and ride what were and remain relatively unknown engines. But Chris Harris did ask if he could try one in practice, liked it, used it in the meeting and again at King's Lynn for the SWC. Gerhard travelled to Vojens and had GTRs available for Harris, including the one he used at KL, but Chris declined to use it, either in practice or the meeting itself. But subsequently he asked if he could have one for the British Final and Marcel drove from Denmark to Wolverhampton although both he and Kelvin felt the set-up of the ones available were not best suited to Monmore. Chris then indicated that he would like to have one at Cardiff and again Marcel made the journey from Switzerland with four engines. Lambert had one but Chris, having not told Marcel until he arrived on Friday, said he now intended to use his GMs which he had ridden successfully in England over the previous few days. Clearly, no other SGP riders were going to change engines at the drop of a hat on the eve of the sport's biggest meeting of the season and Harris was only prepared to change his mind in exchange for a pretty substantial inducement, which GTR were not prepared to pay. Whether or not Harris would have fared better on a GTR than he did on his GMs can only be a matter of conjecture but having been let down twice, at Vojens and Cardiff, it will be somewhat surprising if they give him another chance. I assume you have evidence for these comments levelled against Harris.... Edited July 8, 2015 by JC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Totally agree with RMC it was all about the racing and the team not the top stars. I wonder if those who follow NL feel the same. Seeing the top riders in the 60's and 70's was always interesting but I have to say you thought nothing of it standing on the terraces on a Saturday night at Rayleigh and hearing the results from the other teams racing that night having just watched Boston or Canterbury or Romford. Happy days regular 1 to 7 and no prima donnas. Hard racing, team riding and not just gate and go. Why we bother with league racing as it stands is something I simply don't understand when teams are made up of borrowed riders, guests, r/r etc. Change the format so that it is either 4 team racing or regionalise to get local rivalries going. No disrespect to either team but Plymouth versus Berwick or Edinburgh does nothing for either side in terms of travelling support etc. people are no longer willing to travel great distances given the costs and the sport needs to wake up this fact. How does it reinvent itself, is difficult to say but something needs to happen and perhaps going back to grass roots and standardising bikes etc might just be a start 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 i said this 2 years ago - basic bikes, tenner to get in, semi pro riders, ride at the rates on offer or clear off somewhere else, stop flying people around Europe to ride in front of 500 people, improve tracks not bikes I got called an idiot but we could lose 6 tracks at the end of this season - there are loads of PL riders who should be EL and NL who should be PL and development league who should be NL = all held up by using foreign imports to prop up the win at all costs attitude that permeates the sport 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I assume you have evidence for these comments levelled against Harris.... YES... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 i said this 2 years ago - basic bikes, tenner to get in, semi pro riders, ride at the rates on offer or clear off somewhere else, stop flying people around Europe to ride in front of 500 people, improve tracks not bikes I got called an idiot but we could lose 6 tracks at the end of this season - It's beginning to look like 1956 again. Those who were around then will know what I mean - the other folk on the BSF can work it out for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) It's beginning to look like 1956 again. Those who were around then will know what I mean - the other folk on the BSF can work it out for themselves.Correct... Both the 'operating model' and the 'business model' are completely 'donald ducked'..... Both need to broken down, dissected, put pack together again and then relaunched with radical new ideas for collective revenue generation, cost controls, and league formats and regulations that are based around the running of a professional sport with integrity as its mantra.. And all controlled by an independent central organisation that have the power to control the sport from top to bottom with consequences for those who wish to work outside the agreed processes. But who out there has the balls to do it? Edited July 9, 2015 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Correct... Both the 'operating model' and the 'business model' are completely 'donald ducked'..... Both need to broken down, dissected, put pack together again and then relaunched with radical new ideas for collective revenue generation, cost controls, and league formats and regulations that are based around the running of a professional sport with integrity as its mantra.. And all controlled by an independent central organisation that have the power to control the sport from top to bottom with consequences for those who wish to work outside the agreed processes. But who out there has the balls to do it? There was that one time where the late great John Berry was mentioned to totally revamp british speedway i am convinced he would of done a great job.Now major change in this country will never happen ,not in my lifetime anyway would maybe communicating with the speedway public getting there views and ideas be a start.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Take the power away from those that have vested interest and use them as consutants as to the viability things with regard to the sport in general not there own personal gain .I have no doubt the Kelvin Tatum is not doing his bit to push the GTRout of the goodness of his heart but he is perseptive enough to realise that it is in the best interest of the sport to go down this road. With regard to Chis Harris he needs to make a choice whether he is going to be a pioneer ( great to hear PK is doing it but then there aren't many like him around) of the GTR or not .They need high profile riders to test and use the engine to get the best feed back and give it credibility prehaps Tai might have his conscience pricked after his out burst with regard to team GB and really would help the cause . With regard to cost of riders I really don't care whether I see a GP rider or not in the league as my preference is PL racing anyway but the main thing is that it is close and not one rider half a lap ahead or to seperate races in one as it were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) My Six thing's i would liked changed. 1./go back to the old touch the tapes rule( add to the drama) 2. One Brit in the 1/5. 3.One draft English rider only at reserve ( he would more and likely change in the order with the other Brit in the top five??) 4. No double points ride. 5. Have a league season top of the league team WINS the league Brum did that the other year with a top four play/off scenario and a FA cup basis system drawn out of a hat. 6. riders in second / third place in BP positions to be rewarded a little money wise? the art of team riding is dying out of the sport. waiting to be SHOT down.!! Edited July 9, 2015 by sidney 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 My Six thing's i would liked changed. 1./go back to the old touch the tapes rule( add to the drama) 2. One Brit in the 1/5. 3.One draft English rider only at reserve ( he would more and likely change in the order with the other Brit in the top five??) 4. No double points ride. 5. Have a league season top of the league team WINS the league Brum did that the other year with a top four play/off scenario and a FA cup basis system drawn out of a hat. 6. riders in second / third place in BP positions to be rewarded a little money wise? the art of team riding is dying out of the sport. waiting to be SHOT down.!! Not by me sydney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Not by me sydney. What would you add WK ? any suggestions is it why speedway is struggling me and you the old timers we are quite happy with a decent product just decent racing.You like myself want to see the sport go forward, i have a passion for it me and you have never really grasped the GP series i watch it but it is not the same as the old WC world championship where the under dog has a chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 My Six thing's i would liked changed. 1./go back to the old touch the tapes rule( add to the drama) 2. One Brit in the 1/5. 3.One draft English rider only at reserve ( he would more and likely change in the order with the other Brit in the top five??) 4. No double points ride. 5. Have a league season top of the league team WINS the league Brum did that the other year with a top four play/off scenario and a FA cup basis system drawn out of a hat. 6. riders in second / third place in BP positions to be rewarded a little money wise? the art of team riding is dying out of the sport. waiting to be SHOT down.!! ONE Brit in the 1 to 5 - how about 1 foreigner in the 1 to 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiseguy Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 What would you add WK ? any suggestions is it why speedway is struggling me and you the old timers we are quite happy with a decent product just decent racing.You like myself want to see the sport go forward, i have a passion for it me and you have never really grasped the GP series i watch it but it is not the same as the old WC world championship where the under dog has a chance my 6 1, 1 night per week for elite league speedway, premier and national league teams can choose when they want to ride as long as it's not on the elite league night. 2, Scrap the tactical double and replace with tactical substitute to be used when 6 down, and as many times as you like as long as you are -6 3, keep the draft but your number 6 must be under 25 and your number 7 must be under 21, also introduce to Premier league, top 5 draft riders each year must be fit into the main body of the team the following year as a number 2 or 4 but on a protected 4.00 average 4, Introduce ride on music for each rider, sounds daft, but each rider comes out to his chosen tune, red first, then blue, then white and yellow, each rider becomes synonymous with that tune, and gives the crowd time to cheer or boo in Nicki's case each rider, it has done wonders for the darts, and as soon as the race has finished the winning rider does a lap of honour to his tune, and as soon as he has cleared the track and the results are given the next race build up starts, except of course for track grading or a short break if a rider has 2 on the trot, this may sound trivial but keeps the meeting flowing and as a dad who regularly takes kids, i'm sure it would go down well with the little ones as it helps to identify riders 5, Squad systems, 10 riders, the same 1-7 system, but with one reserve heat leader, I reserve second string and a number 8, teams chosen riders must still fit to a points average, but cuts out R/R and guests, riders can still double up as nights are different 6.Reintroduction of a cup, (similar to old bspa cup?) seeded and open to all teams in all leagues, yes, there are going to be some hammerings along the way, but if it was seeded that say national league teams were seeded in a 1 legged competition at home to premier league clubs and premier league clubs seeded at home to elite league clubs there could be some upsets along the way, I'm sure fans of national league teams would love to have the chance to see the likes of Lambert, Morris, Kurtz etc at their home tracks, and i'm sure some of the top premier teams would be capable of upsetting the big boys with it being a one off home match Again I expect people to tell me none of that will work, but you never know 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratton Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 my 6 1, 1 night per week for elite league speedway, premier and national league teams can choose when they want to ride as long as it's not on the elite league night. 2, Scrap the tactical double and replace with tactical substitute to be used when 6 down, and as many times as you like as long as you are -6 3, keep the draft but your number 6 must be under 25 and your number 7 must be under 21, also introduce to Premier league, top 5 draft riders each year must be fit into the main body of the team the following year as a number 2 or 4 but on a protected 4.00 average 4, Introduce ride on music for each rider, sounds daft, but each rider comes out to his chosen tune, red first, then blue, then white and yellow, each rider becomes synonymous with that tune, and gives the crowd time to cheer or boo in Nicki's case each rider, it has done wonders for the darts, and as soon as the race has finished the winning rider does a lap of honour to his tune, and as soon as he has cleared the track and the results are given the next race build up starts, except of course for track grading or a short break if a rider has 2 on the trot, this may sound trivial but keeps the meeting flowing and as a dad who regularly takes kids, i'm sure it would go down well with the little ones as it helps to identify riders 5, Squad systems, 10 riders, the same 1-7 system, but with one reserve heat leader, I reserve second string and a number 8, teams chosen riders must still fit to a points average, but cuts out R/R and guests, riders can still double up as nights are different 6.Reintroduction of a cup, (similar to old bspa cup?) seeded and open to all teams in all leagues, yes, there are going to be some hammerings along the way, but if it was seeded that say national league teams were seeded in a 1 legged competition at home to premier league clubs and premier league clubs seeded at home to elite league clubs there could be some upsets along the way, I'm sure fans of national league teams would love to have the chance to see the likes of Lambert, Morris, Kurtz etc at their home tracks, and i'm sure some of the top premier teams would be capable of upsetting the big boys with it being a one off home match Again I expect people to tell me none of that will work, but you never know No some good ideas Wiseguy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Panda Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) my 6 1, 1 night per week for elite league speedway, premier and national league teams can choose when they want to ride as long as it's not on the elite league night. 2, Scrap the tactical double and replace with tactical substitute to be used when 6 down, and as many times as you like as long as you are -6 3, keep the draft but your number 6 must be under 25 and your number 7 must be under 21, also introduce to Premier league, top 5 draft riders each year must be fit into the main body of the team the following year as a number 2 or 4 but on a protected 4.00 average 4, Introduce ride on music for each rider, sounds daft, but each rider comes out to his chosen tune, red first, then blue, then white and yellow, each rider becomes synonymous with that tune, and gives the crowd time to cheer or boo in Nicki's case each rider, it has done wonders for the darts, and as soon as the race has finished the winning rider does a lap of honour to his tune, and as soon as he has cleared the track and the results are given the next race build up starts, except of course for track grading or a short break if a rider has 2 on the trot, this may sound trivial but keeps the meeting flowing and as a dad who regularly takes kids, i'm sure it would go down well with the little ones as it helps to identify riders 5, Squad systems, 10 riders, the same 1-7 system, but with one reserve heat leader, I reserve second string and a number 8, teams chosen riders must still fit to a points average, but cuts out R/R and guests, riders can still double up as nights are different 6.Reintroduction of a cup, (similar to old bspa cup?) seeded and open to all teams in all leagues, yes, there are going to be some hammerings along the way, but if it was seeded that say national league teams were seeded in a 1 legged competition at home to premier league clubs and premier league clubs seeded at home to elite league clubs there could be some upsets along the way, I'm sure fans of national league teams would love to have the chance to see the likes of Lambert, Morris, Kurtz etc at their home tracks, and i'm sure some of the top premier teams would be capable of upsetting the big boys with it being a one off home match Again I expect people to tell me none of that will work, but you never know ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1 One night a week racing would not work in the EL...............too many restrictions by other users of the stadiums and local authority rules about curfews etc.. 5 Squad system..................been saying it for years...........it works in other countries so why no here........... RP Edited July 9, 2015 by Red Panda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 my 6 1, 1 night per week for elite league speedway, premier and national league teams can choose when they want to ride as long as it's not on the elite league night. 1) Good idea but I don't understand why a Premier League Club should not ride on the same night as the Elite League. Different Leagues, different Supporters 2, Scrap the tactical double and replace with tactical substitute to be used when 6 down, and as many times as you like as long as you are -6 No, no, no!!! Back to fiddling/contriving Results again. 3, keep the draft but your number 6 must be under 25 and your number 7 must be under 21, also introduce to Premier league, top 5 draft riders each year must be fit into the main body of the team the following year as a number 2 or 4 but on a protected 4.00 average This idea has merit. 4, Introduce ride on music for each rider, sounds daft, but each rider comes out to his chosen tune, red first, then blue, then white and yellow, each rider becomes synonymous with that tune, and gives the crowd time to cheer or boo in Nicki's case each rider, it has done wonders for the darts, and as soon as the race has finished the winning rider does a lap of honour to his tune, and as soon as he has cleared the track and the results are given the next race build up starts, except of course for track grading or a short break if a rider has 2 on the trot, this may sound trivial but keeps the meeting flowing and as a dad who regularly takes kids, i'm sure it would go down well with the little ones as it helps to identify riders Yes - Great idea. They do it in 20/20 Cricket and it is fun. Speedway needs some of the 'fun' element. 5, Squad systems, 10 riders, the same 1-7 system, but with one reserve heat leader, I reserve second string and a number 8, teams chosen riders must still fit to a points average, but cuts out R/R and guests, riders can still double up as nights are different Great idea - but - I would imagine it would be too expensive to have any real chance of it happening. Speedway would have to be in a lot more healthy position than it is now. 6.Reintroduction of a cup, (similar to old bspa cup?) seeded and open to all teams in all leagues, yes, there are going to be some hammerings along the way, but if it was seeded that say national league teams were seeded in a 1 legged competition at home to premier league clubs and premier league clubs seeded at home to elite league clubs there could be some upsets along the way, I'm sure fans of national league teams would love to have the chance to see the likes of Lambert, Morris, Kurtz etc at their home tracks, and i'm sure some of the top premier teams would be capable of upsetting the big boys with it being a one off home match Again, a good idea. I don't want to appear negative but I'm not sure how feasible it would be. I would imagine Elite League Crowds and Wages would be far above the National League. Again I expect people to tell me none of that will work, but you never know A few good ideas and some not so good. Great Post though. :approve: No some good ideas Wiseguy. Exactly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiseguy Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 1, my thinking is, if you allow riders to double up there will be no fixture clashes 5, you only pay the riders riding, maybe some small retainer for the services of non riding riders and you would be allowed to select track specialists for certain tracks if that rider is in your named squad, wouldn't really cost more than a guest 6, obviously just an idea and the financials would need to be worked out but extra numbers on the gates of the smaller clubs helping grass routes and maybe some separate tv deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 1 No Thanks 2 YES 5 Yes but pay football wages otherwise un workable The rest seem fine but will never happen in speedway sadly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I have CAREFULLY read all the previous posts and my assessment of speedway overall is an accepted concept: nothing struggles so much to safeguard itself as something that is dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 1, my thinking is, if you allow riders to double up there will be no fixture clashes 5, you only pay the riders riding, maybe some small retainer for the services of non riding riders and you would be allowed to select track specialists for certain tracks if that rider is in your named squad, wouldn't really cost more than a guest 6, obviously just an idea and the financials would need to be worked out but extra numbers on the gates of the smaller clubs helping grass routes and maybe some separate tv deal Even if that were the case, how would the Riders not selected for a Meeting earn a living from Speedway? They would have to be on pretty big retainers. Speedway can ill afford to pay for Riders polishing their backsides on the bench so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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