Speedway Struggles

[bringbackHalifax]

There is lots of debate around elite v prem and who has it right and who has it wrong. In reality speedway globally is in the rubbish. many will say that it has been for a while, but never since 1970 when I first started watching as it reached this low.

I don't blame the current BSPA members as the money makers took their cash and never invested in the future when the good times were happening.

To back up its not just in Britain, the Swedes have got 7 teams in their top two leagues and race 12 meetings & then play offs.

Poland is now throwing cash at the top riders and dropping the lesser ones as they try to buy success. This is the start of their downward spiral as they try to win at all costs.

How do we move forward ?

 

No easy answer but if people want the top guys in the world, then it will cost about £30 + for adult entrance fee. Still cheaper than prem football. Anything less and apart from Poole no one has the income from speedway alone to pay their bills.

Premier league riders on £90 to £120 a point is crazy.

Glasgow has reinvented itself and good luck to the guys but you have riders there for the money, not for the team or club, meaning no heart.

Edinburgh, Berwick, Glasgow, Newcastle, Redcar, Workington, Scunthorpe,Plymouth, Somerset, Rye House, Ipswitch,Coventry, Wolves, BelleVue, Swindon, have all been visited by myself and not one of them have had a crowd that would get anywhere near paying the bills.

the Swedes and the Poles are following that pattern very quickly.

 

I would start again.

At the end of the season I would have any rider over 6 point average ( to be agreed at end of the season ) in the prem has to move into the elite league. Have 6 man teams, no doubling up . Elite pay £125 point. Prem pay £45. Riders need to understand prem means balancing some work as in semi pro. Stop paying out 70 to 100k for GP riders at league meetings for the season. you cannot afford it. An average elite mtg would cost around 16k and an average prem meeting would cost about 8k. Elte need around 930 to break even and prem would need about 530 people to break even, not counting any sponsorship income.

At least then we could have full 6 man teams, any guest for injured rider comes from league below top two or a number 5 or 6 in the same league. Would be tough at first but would settle down quickly, would have similar rider ability in each heat, hopefully 4 riders in a race unlike now where we have 2 races in one most of the time.

Just some thoughts but it's tough out there and we need to wake up and smell the coffee quickly.

 

I grew up watching Halifax so not used to winning and then we transferred to Odsal won the league with an expensive team and closed. I was always entertained when I was at Halifax but got a bit bored at Odsal.

I just want to be entertained and happiness really was 40 : 38. Not winning the league.

[waiheke1]

So you would have no top riders riding in Britain, meaning any Brit wanting to make it would need to find a team spot in Poland/Sweden to become an international standard rider.

Imho the answer is to improve the product not weaken it. It is a potentially great product, but presentation and marketing (amongst other things) need vast improvement.

Personally I think a single round home/away elite league per the Poland/Sweden model, el to have priority over pl,set race night/s, minimum 3 Brits per team (including 2 aged u23 or with less than 5 years experience at pl/el level?), decent entertainment between heats, independent governing body, market it properly.

[Humphrey Appleby]

Imho the answer is to improve the product not weaken it.

Easy to say, but where is money coming from to pay for the stars who didn't draw the crowds when they rode in Britain before? I'd agree that presentation and marketing desperately need improving, but the sports needs to attract a new fanbase, and most non-speedway fans will have never heard of even the speedway world champion. Therefore why waste money on the top stars?

 

In addition, trying to market a sport that takes place in less-than-salubrious stadia and which is an organisational shambles, would just be a complete waste of money. In fact, it would do more damage than good because anyone you did manage to attract would simply never return once they actually saw the sport and what a farce it can be.

 

Sadly, I think the sport in Britain needs to start from the ground-up, positioning itself as cheap form of entertainment and trying to build itself up as a grassroots sport. Only if there can be sizeable investment in a few decent venues running in a remodelled competition should British speedway even attempt to run with star riders, and what serious businessmen would invest money in speedway the way it is at the moment.

 

Personally I think a single round home/away elite league per the Poland/Sweden model, el to have priority over pl,set race night/s, minimum 3 Brits per team (including 2 aged u23 or with less than 5 years experience at pl/el level?), decent entertainment between heats, independent governing body, market it properly.

All very well, but British tracks don't have the same economic model of subsidised stadia as Poland and Sweden, far less stadium availability on one or even two nights a week. Sweden also benefits from having very long light evenings because it's so far north, which is not the case in Britain in March and October.

 

British speedway undoubtedly could be better, but it's not as straightforward as copying what Poland and Sweden do.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[bringbackHalifax]

But Poland and Sweden are following us. They are spending money on riders wages that isn't coming thought the gates. Sweden are down to 7 teams in each league, Poland are down on number of teams. They are in the same boat as us and it's coming their way. They have a stadium advantage but they still have too different a standard rider in a race and therefore it's not an ideal package to watch.

Starting again will create a new level of stars, it can redevelop without the costly stars. You don' see Lewis Hamilton every week in a stock car and you won't see grand prix riders every week. The money is not there, yet the riders want as much as possible to fund the grand prix. Great so earn it in the grand prix not in the league. Not having a go at Matty Zagar but Belle Vue spending all their £100k tv money on 1 rider is not good business sense at all. They are not the only ones.

A lot of the racing this year has been crap, all gate and go because the riders and bikes have taken all the cash and not enough is spent on the tracks.

Give riders a great surface not a slick strip and you can have a great nights entertainment.

Get it right now and we will lead the way as the cash dries up abroad.

[Humphrey Appleby]

The money is not there, yet the riders want as much as possible to fund the grand prix. Great so earn it in the grand prix not in the league.

Speedway has to be just about the only sport where the grassroots subsidises the premier event.

[FAST GATER]

IMO the GP's are detrimental to the British leagues in a multitude ways not least destroying weekend speedway meetings, which affects the attendance levels for people with children .If riders are in the Gp's we should cut them loose and have riders that want to ride in our leagues ,It would not be bother whether there is a big name in a meeting or not I am more interested in the quality of the racing .It may well be possible to have an engine like the GTR then and leave Tai and Co to waste money( forgot he has PJR at his beck and call) on rocket ship engines that only three riders in the world are capable of riding .Cost must be cut and riders being able to compete on a level plainfield with reasonable costs that allow them ALL to make a living and produce a good product rather than gate and go may the best engine (tuner) win.

Edited July 7, 2015 by FAST GATER

[Lord Skid]

No GTR engines used at Cardiff by the GP riders, even though some were offered 10k to use them, but no takers, they chose to stay on their rocket ships.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Lord Skid

[OveFundinFan]

Its interesting what they did in Moto GP to help bring costs down and make racing more competative.

There used to be 6 "aliens" ie out of this world riders - those riders sat on works Honda, Yamaha, and Ducati

Cant remember all the changes done over the last few years, but now the works bikes get out qualified in the qualifying sessions, and sometimes the "lesser" bikes are with them most of the race.

Still some more equalising to do but they getting there.

The same needs to be done in F1 - too much money still thrown at it despite attempts to bring costs down ie restrict in season development etc

 

Somethings got to be done in speedway to get costs down before its too late.

 

I just read "The Peter Collins Speedway Book" edited by Richard Bott.

In 1976 there were 19 teams in the Gulf British League and 18 teams in the New national League. Wow!

 

In 1976 there was a Polish tour of Britain 6 meetings

USSR tour of Britain 6 meetings

England v Australia 8 meetings

all these were against league teams

 

AND a England v Rest of the World held at Vojens

just look at the England team - P Collins, G Kennett, M Simmons, M Ashby, D Jessup, J Davis, D Morton.

and they got beat 41 - 43 by

O Olsen, A Michanek, I Mauger, B Briggs, E Muller, P Crump, J Sancl

What a meeting that must have been

 

Something gone wrong since then eh! England had strength then

[foamfence]

There is lots of debate around elite v prem and who has it right and who has it wrong. In reality speedway globally is in the rubbish. many will say that it has been for a while, but never since 1970 when I first started watching as it reached this low.

I don't blame the current BSPA members as the money makers took their cash and never invested in the future when the good times were happening.

To back up its not just in Britain, the Swedes have got 7 teams in their top two leagues and race 12 meetings & then play offs.

Poland is now throwing cash at the top riders and dropping the lesser ones as they try to buy success. This is the start of their downward spiral as they try to win at all costs.

How do we move forward ?

 

No easy answer but if people want the top guys in the world, then it will cost about £30 + for adult entrance fee. Still cheaper than prem football. Anything less and apart from Poole no one has the income from speedway alone to pay their bills.

Premier league riders on £90 to £120 a point is crazy.

Glasgow has reinvented itself and good luck to the guys but you have riders there for the money, not for the team or club, meaning no heart.

Edinburgh, Berwick, Glasgow, Newcastle, Redcar, Workington, Scunthorpe,Plymouth, Somerset, Rye House, Ipswitch,Coventry, Wolves, BelleVue, Swindon, have all been visited by myself and not one of them have had a crowd that would get anywhere near paying the bills.

the Swedes and the Poles are following that pattern very quickly.

 

I would start again.

At the end of the season I would have any rider over 6 point average ( to be agreed at end of the season ) in the prem has to move into the elite league. Have 6 man teams, no doubling up . Elite pay £125 point. Prem pay £45. Riders need to understand prem means balancing some work as in semi pro. Stop paying out 70 to 100k for GP riders at league meetings for the season. you cannot afford it. An average elite mtg would cost around 16k and an average prem meeting would cost about 8k. Elte need around 930 to break even and prem would need about 530 people to break even, not counting any sponsorship income.

At least then we could have full 6 man teams, any guest for injured rider comes from league below top two or a number 5 or 6 in the same league. Would be tough at first but would settle down quickly, would have similar rider ability in each heat, hopefully 4 riders in a race unlike now where we have 2 races in one most of the time.

Just some thoughts but it's tough out there and we need to wake up and smell the coffee quickly.

 

I grew up watching Halifax so not used to winning and then we transferred to Odsal won the league with an expensive team and closed. I was always entertained when I was at Halifax but got a bit bored at Odsal.

I just want to be entertained and happiness really was 40 : 38. Not winning the league.

I pretty much agree with everything you say. On your point about Halifax, I remember them having the best team in the country in the 60s but I agree that moving to Bradford was the beginning of the end, it was frankly boring for league racing and should have been left as the international neutral venue that it was before the Dukes moved there.

[PHILIPRISING]

No GTR engines used at Cardiff by the GP riders, even though some were offered 10k to use them, but no takers, they chose to stay on their rocket ships.

NOT for the first time, not quite true ...

[Ray Stadia]

I pretty much agree with everything you say. On your point about Halifax, I remember them having the best team in the country in the 60s but I agree that moving to Bradford was the beginning of the end, it was frankly boring for league racing and should have been left as the international neutral venue that it was before the Dukes moved there.

But didn't the Dukes have to move somewhere, due to the lamp standards being too close to the track? Or am I wrong or was that a red herring?

[John Leslie]

An average elite mtg would cost around 16k and an average prem meeting would cost about 8k. Elte need around 930 to break even and prem would need about 530 people to break even

On your breakeven figures you'd be charging £20.70 for an EL match and £18.20 for PL. So i don't think you've got the answer either!

[foamfence]

But didn't the Dukes have to move somewhere, due to the lamp standards being too close to the track? Or am I wrong or was that a red herring?

I think the real reason was that the Ham brothers couldn't open league racing where another track existed a few minutes away, so they waved the brown envelope at an aging promoter. When Calderdale council altered the Shay stadium to accommodate both Rugby League and Football, they did approach the Bradford promoters with an offer to be included, but it was turned down and the old track and any potential new one disappeared.

[oldace]

But didn't the Dukes have to move somewhere, due to the lamp standards being too close to the track? Or am I wrong or was that a red herring?

 

 

The main reason was that Eric Boothroyd was offered Odsal on an initial rent free basis which coupled with the high rent, and as you say Remedial work that needed doing at the Shay pretty much made the decision for him.

 

Of course only a few weeks into their tenure there was the Carter tragedy, Odsal wasn't the most atmospheric venue with only a couple of thousand in there and to top it all, save for about 3 weeks in July the place was ffing freezing!!!!!!!

[Bruiser McHuge]

I pretty much agree with everything you say. On your point about Halifax, I remember them having the best team in the country in the 60s but I agree that moving to Bradford was the beginning of the end, it was frankly boring for league racing and should have been left as the international neutral venue that it was before the Dukes moved there.

 

i don't think Odsal was boring for league matches...certainly in the late 80's and early 90's with Havelock, Thorp, Wilson, Doyle, Hodgson etc it was very entertaining...the crowd generated a good atmosphere from the main stand, certainly better than a lot of tracks, the racing was entertaining and the riders were very sociable after meetings and the fans felt they could relate to those riders and the team had more of a community feel about them..

in my opinion Bradford lost touch with the locals when they went down the route of international stars with no affiliation to the area...Kelvin Tatum, Jimmy Nilsen etc....great riders but expensive and dashing off after each meeting....expenses went up, crowds went down and there was no way that sort of team could be funded on the crowd levels at the end....The Hams were great but i think they misjudged their audience a little bit.

 

as for how British speedway improves itself now...i don't really know.....you could certainly make it cheaper by diluting the product and reducing wages but you definitely wouldnt get top riders here...so its a dilemma as to whether you want British riders to develop to be world stars or whether you want a good grassroots local product but the British riders never ride against the best and we give up on challenging for World Cups etc.....

 

i certainly do feel that the engines of the very few elite riders are now so far ahead of the rest that it has now become more un equal than ever at top level.....the best riders have always had the best bikes and the best tuners but it was always possible to compete with that to a large degree but the top elite now have support and budgets way beyond the reach of the rest and that's a result of the growth of the GP series really

[RobMcCaffery]

Easy to say, but where is money coming from to pay for the stars who didn't draw the crowds when they rode in Britain before? I'd agree that presentation and marketing desperately need improving, but the sports needs to attract a new fanbase, and most non-speedway fans will have never heard of even the speedway world champion. Therefore why waste money on the top stars?

 

In addition, trying to market a sport that takes place in less-than-salubrious stadia and which is an organisational shambles, would just be a complete waste of money. In fact, it would do more damage than good because anyone you did manage to attract would simply never return once they actually saw the sport and what a farce it can be.

 

Sadly, I think the sport in Britain needs to start from the ground-up, positioning itself as cheap form of entertainment and trying to build itself up as a grassroots sport. Only if there can be sizeable investment in a few decent venues running in a remodelled competition should British speedway even attempt to run with star riders, and what serious businessmen would invest money in speedway the way it is at the moment.

 

 

All very well, but British tracks don't have the same economic model of subsidised stadia as Poland and Sweden, far less stadium availability on one or even two nights a week. Sweden also benefits from having very long light evenings because it's so far north, which is not the case in Britain in March and October.

 

British speedway undoubtedly could be better, but it's not as straightforward as copying what Poland and Sweden do.

This is probably your best post of many excellent posts yet HA. Totally agree.

But Poland and Sweden are following us. They are spending money on riders wages that isn't coming thought the gates. Sweden are down to 7 teams in each league, Poland are down on number of teams. They are in the same boat as us and it's coming their way. They have a stadium advantage but they still have too different a standard rider in a race and therefore it's not an ideal package to watch.

Starting again will create a new level of stars, it can redevelop without the costly stars. You don' see Lewis Hamilton every week in a stock car and you won't see grand prix riders every week. The money is not there, yet the riders want as much as possible to fund the grand prix. Great so earn it in the grand prix not in the league. Not having a go at Matty Zagar but Belle Vue spending all their £100k tv money on 1 rider is not good business sense at all. They are not the only ones.

A lot of the racing this year has been crap, all gate and go because the riders and bikes have taken all the cash and not enough is spent on the tracks.

Give riders a great surface not a slick strip and you can have a great nights entertainment.

Get it right now and we will lead the way as the cash dries up abroad.

Another excellent analysis.

 

Speedway needs to find a new generation of supporter and most will have no idea who the 'names' are in the sport. When I started out my second division team had its heroes and we supported them. The fact that they weren't the world's finest was irrelevant. A race between Geoff Maloney and Hugh Saunders and Malcolm Ballard and Gordon Kennett meant enough. It was a race between Rayleigh and Eastbourne, and we HAD to beat them.

 

I didn't see Ivan Mauger and Ole Olsen who were the world's best back in '71 but that was irrelevant. I could maybe catch them on their oner appearance at Hackney that year or go to an international event.

 

In this modern shallow world names are important and a great deal has been invested in Tai Woffinden to make him a recognised 'name' outside the sport. Unless the product is supported by a vigorous, healthy sport or by an excellent PR management (ref. Guy Martin) it's sadly wasted effort. People do tend to find their own heroes, and in any case while some are impressed by 'names' riding round half a lap in front of the rest the vital potential new fan will rightly say "First out of the gate wins" and head off for a more sensible sport.

 

The racing is vital. Sadly Scunthorpe's situation proves that it's not all though. Unique amongst motor sports we rely on having winning teams to draw in crowds. Not everyone can win and in a sport with such a weak foundation as speedway (lack of security of tenure, sponsorship and capital to build proper foundations - literally- such as providing a good race track) losing kills.

 

It's going to be fascinating to see whether giving up the 'names' has been a success for Eastbourne and Birmingham.

 

It's all about four guys racing. The rest should enhance the product, not kill it.

Edited July 7, 2015 by rmc

[FAST GATER]

NOT for the first time, not quite true ...

What is the truth then was anyone offered a GTR or payment to ride one ?

[Lord Skid]

Which piece don't you think is correct?

[erniewoodhouse]

I don't know the facts regarding whether GP riders were offered financial incentives to encourage them to ride GTR's at Cardiff, however, Robert Lambert was riding one and he certainly looked to have enough pace in the engine, that is before his race came to a premature end.

[PHILIPRISING]

Which piece don't you think is correct?

THAT some riders were offered 10 grand to ride them.

 

When Kelvin Tatum first rode a GTR at Prague for pre-SGP social media purposes there was no expectations that GP riders would suddenly jump off their GMs and ride what were and remain relatively unknown engines. But Chris Harris did ask if he could try one in practice, liked it, used it in the meeting and again at King's Lynn for the SWC.

 

That was how he came to get to try them in the first place.

 

Previously Kelvin and Marcel had a day's practice at King's Lynn during which they were unexpectedly joined by Robert Lambert who had a few spins himself on a GTR.

 

Gerhard travelled to Vojens and had GTRs available for Harris, including the one he used at KL, but Chris declined to use it, either in practice or the meeting itself. But subsequently he asked if he could have one for the British Final and Marcel drove from Denmark to Wolverhampton although both he and Kelvin felt the set-up of the ones available were not best suited to Monmore.

 

Chris then indicated that he would like to have one at Cardiff and again Marcel made the journey from Switzerland with four engines. Lambert had one but Chris, having not told Marcel until he arrived on Friday, said he now intended to use his GMs which he had ridden successfully in England over the previous few days.

 

Clearly, no other SGP riders were going to change engines at the drop of a hat on the eve of the sport's biggest meeting of the season and Harris was only prepared to change his mind in exchange for a pretty substantial inducement, which GTR were not prepared to pay.

 

Whether or not Harris would have fared better on a GTR than he did on his GMs can only be a matter of conjecture but having been let down twice, at Vojens and Cardiff, it will be somewhat surprising if they give him another chance.

 

Lambert has provided some decent feedback and GTR are now working with the vastly experienced Peter Karlsson in helping with the continuing development of the engine.

 

They (including Kelvin) had also planned to go to Poland for Jarek Hampel to give them a spin but obviously that won't happen now.

Edited July 8, 2015 by PHILIPRISING