Vince Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 For me Speedway is 4 blokes with big balls racing as hard as they know how. Personally I like individual meetings more than team racing but it doesn't really make a lot of difference if you just watch the 4 blokes tearing around. The negativity on here and places like it is largely self feeding in my opinion. When you read how much better it was in the old days forget about it, it's what they were saying at the first meeting I went to in about 1967 or 68. Like any sport there are good meetings, poor meetings and the rare superb meeting. The great meetings make all the poor meetings worth sitting through. Speedway today offers, in my opinion, the best racing it ever has. The standard of the riders is very high and few of them like to sit back and settle for what they have in a race. Get along to see a live meeting and the speed and danger will take your breath away. Finally one important thing to remember is that unlike the overpaid participants in some other sports these lads are largely paid by the point and not very well in the main. Injury is a near certainty during the season and they will carry with pain that would see the average man off work for weeks. Yet they are usually friendly and willing to mix with the fans. There are undoubtedly many faults within the sport and the rules, pretty much like any other sport. It is still a fantastic sport 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 the site sometimes makes you cynical - i know it does me for example some may feel that Hammers66 is a made up profile for one of the regulars to provoke some discussion - like the double point rule, etc as i say the site makes you cynical - plus its happened before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammers66 Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 A major problem is rules/regulations brought in which complicate the sport and appear to take away all sense of fair play I give you: Doubling-up/doubling down riders - how do you explain that a rider is missing tonight because he's riding for another club? FTRs staying at 6 & 7 - much as I enjoy the benefit that Bees get from having top two FTRs, it makes no sense that, if they're good enough to move up to 2nd string (as shown when they take their extra reserve replacement rides), they are not allowed to, giving an unfair advantage over teams with lesser FTRs Black & white helmet - well, we all know about that 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) A major problem is rules/regulations brought in which complicate the sport and appear to take away all sense of fair play I give you: Doubling-up/doubling down riders - how do you explain that a rider is missing tonight because he's riding for another club? FTRs staying at 6 & 7 - much as I enjoy the benefit that Bees get from having top two FTRs, it makes no sense that, if they're good enough to move up to 2nd string (as shown when they take their extra reserve replacement rides), they are not allowed to, giving an unfair advantage over teams with lesser FTRs Black & white helmet - well, we all know about that You simply cannot judge speedway by the rules of another sport. Someone coming into speedway might find guests (and doubling up/down riders), points limits and tactical changes bizarre but they have been in force in speedway for decades and, if you think about it rather than making an instant judgement prejudiced by the regulations of some other sport, with good reason. Try turning the situation round. How about having a rule in speedway where certain riders are only allowed on certain parts of the track at certain times and then it depends on where the opposition are. Ridiculous ? Its called offside in football. Football pitches and their markings are subject to standard size requirements (as are the goals) to stop any advantage that exceptional dimensions might give. If Chelsea's pitch were three times the size of everyone else's, their goals half the size and their grass 18 inches high, it is entirely possible there would be some measure in place to counter their advantage. What might appear to take away any sense of fair play is, on most occasions, entirely reasonable. Edited July 8, 2015 by Halifaxtiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 You simply cannot judge speedway by the rules of another sport. Someone coming into speedway might find guests (and doubling up/down riders), points limits and tactical changes bizarre but they have been in force in speedway for decades and, if you think about it rather than making an instant judgement prejudiced by the regulations of some other sport, with good reason. Try turning the situation round. How about having a rule in speedway where certain riders are only allowed on certain parts of the track at certain times and then it depends on where the opposition are. Ridiculous ? Its called offside in football. Football pitches and their markings are subject to standard size requirements (as are the goals) to stop any advantage that exceptional dimensions might give. If Chelsea's pitch were three times the size of everyone else's, their goals half the size and their grass 18 inches high, it is entirely possible there would be some measure in place to counter their advantage. What might appear to take away any sense of fair play is, on most occasions, entirely reasonable. It doesn't appear to HT - it does. It is certainly not reasonable either. Why on earth can we not have Speedway with NO Tactical Rides (Double Points) or Tactical Substitutes or Jokers in the World Cup - if a Team is getting a hammering - so be it. That Team might hammer someone else the following week. It's called Sport. The Result of the Meeting would be decided by Points actually scored then - not contrived, fiddled, cheated and would be at the very least FAIR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammers66 Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I am going to watch the Premier League speedway on Sky tonight. What is that like like in terms of sport and anyone know of any sites for betting on Premier league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 You simply cannot judge speedway by the rules of another sport. Someone coming into speedway might find guests (and doubling up/down riders), points limits and tactical changes bizarre but they have been in force in speedway for decades and, if you think about it rather than making an instant judgement prejudiced by the regulations of some other sport, with good reason. Try turning the situation round. How about having a rule in speedway where certain riders are only allowed on certain parts of the track at certain times and then it depends on where the opposition are. Ridiculous ? Its called offside in football. Football pitches and their markings are subject to standard size requirements (as are the goals) to stop any advantage that exceptional dimensions might give. If Chelsea's pitch were three times the size of everyone else's, their goals half the size and their grass 18 inches high, it is entirely possible there would be some measure in place to counter their advantage. What might appear to take away any sense of fair play is, on most occasions, entirely reasonable. I didn't say anything about other sports - where do you get that from??? The doubling up/down system is a self-inflicted injury imposed on speedway by the powers that be, creating more and more guest riders, less and less teams tracking their own riders It could perhaps be better implemented to avoid the need for guest bookings, but it would take some working out I am going to watch the Premier League speedway on Sky tonight. What is that like like in terms of sport and anyone know of any sites for betting on Premier league? Three guests, two r/rs, tonight - another good advert for British Speedway Let's hope it's rained off! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I didn't say anything about other sports - where do you get that from??? The doubling up/down system is a self-inflicted injury imposed on speedway by the powers that be, creating more and more guest riders, less and less teams tracking their own riders It could perhaps be better implemented to avoid the need for guest bookings, but it would take some working out Three guests, two r/rs, tonight - another good advert for British Speedway Let's hope it's rained off! Hells Teeth!!!!, don't say that - I might have to watch Coronation Street. :shock: :nono: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) I didn't say anything about other sports - where do you get that from??? The doubling up/down system is a self-inflicted injury imposed on speedway by the powers that be, creating more and more guest riders, less and less teams tracking their own riders It could perhaps be better implemented to avoid the need for guest bookings, but it would take some working out People will tell you that doubling up is due to a lack of riders. Thats crap. 15 years ago you had EL, PL and NL with the only doubling up being between PL and NL and then only a rider or maybe 2 per team and they did it for a season. Fast forward to today and we have 2 or 3 riders in every team doubling up "due to a lack of riders" such a lack of riders that we have had to come up with the MDL/NDL to handle all the riders! 15 years ago the top 10-15 PL riders would all be full time EL riders now and there spaces in the PL would be have been taken by the top 10 NL riders and there spaces in the NL would have been taken by those in the MDL/NDL. 15 years ago any PL rider who could average 5.00 in the EL was seen as a big thing, now they can all get 6.5 (helped to some extent by the format I'll admit) - go back to the old days. Get rid of doubling up and what you'll see is riders going EL and their place taken by NL riders. This will cut costs, it will see more young Brits given a chance and it will make the move from junior to EL star a more smooth transition. Doubling up should be British riders under 25 (or less than 3 seasons in the league below) and for 1 season. Edited July 8, 2015 by SCB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 the site sometimes makes you cynical - i know it does me for example some may feel that Hammers66 is a made up profile for one of the regulars to provoke some discussion - like the double point rule, etc as i say the site makes you cynical - plus its happened before Do you smell a rabbit ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humphrey Appleby Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 People will tell you that doubling up is due to a lack of riders. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Reduce the number of opportunities for riders, and eventually less riders will be competing for those opportunities. Doubling-up was originally intended to address the lack of riders wanting to move-up into the BEL, which itself was a result of lack of cooperation and vision between the BPL and BEL. However, it's simply become an extension of the guest system and failed in its purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Reduce the number of opportunities for riders, and eventually less riders will be competing for those opportunities. Doubling-up was originally intended to address the lack of riders wanting to move-up into the BEL, which itself was a result of lack of cooperation and vision between the BPL and BEL. However, it's simply become an extension of the guest system and failed in its purpose. It fell apart in 2003 when Kings Lynn took Shane Parker and Tom P Madsen, a pair of EL riders and got them to double down. What then started to happen is EL riders started to double up, ride on the way down in their career. Rather than riders trying to move up - it actually become an easy way to drop down rather than the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 It doesn't appear to HT - it does. It is certainly not reasonable either. Why on earth can we not have Speedway with NO Tactical Rides (Double Points) or Tactical Substitutes or Jokers in the World Cup - if a Team is getting a hammering - so be it. That Team might hammer someone else the following week. It's called Sport. The Result of the Meeting would be decided by Points actually scored then - not contrived, fiddled, cheated and would be at the very least FAIR. You tell 'em WK I am going to watch the Premier League speedway on Sky tonight. What is that like like in terms of sport and anyone know of any sites for betting on Premier league? In one respect it does not matter if it is EL, PL or NL. If the teams are well-matched, the riders of comparable standard and the track is good for racing, you will get a good meeting. For me Speedway is 4 blokes with big balls racing as hard as they know how. Personally I like individual meetings more than team racing but it doesn't really make a lot of difference if you just watch the 4 blokes tearing around. The negativity on here and places like it is largely self feeding in my opinion. When you read how much better it was in the old days forget about it, it's what they were saying at the first meeting I went to in about 1967 or 68. Like any sport there are good meetings, poor meetings and the rare superb meeting. The great meetings make all the poor meetings worth sitting through. Speedway today offers, in my opinion, the best racing it ever has. The standard of the riders is very high and few of them like to sit back and settle for what they have in a race. Get along to see a live meeting and the speed and danger will take your breath away. Finally one important thing to remember is that unlike the overpaid participants in some other sports these lads are largely paid by the point and not very well in the main. Injury is a near certainty during the season and they will carry with pain that would see the average man off work for weeks. Yet they are usually friendly and willing to mix with the fans. There are undoubtedly many faults within the sport and the rules, pretty much like any other sport. It is still a fantastic sport I agree with you Vince that it is still a fantastic sport, but it all seemed much simpler and more fun 50 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammers66 Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Thanks Custom. Fancy a flutter on it tonight but can't find a site with betting for Prem league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Thanks Custom. Fancy a flutter on it tonight but can't find a site with betting for Prem league. A bit early to start betting on a sport that you claim to have little knowledge of? How will you know who to back as a winner for example? :::: Make a note - Vic Duggan and Jack Parker retired years ago so don't have them as your betting favourites!! Edited July 8, 2015 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammers66 Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) A bit early to start betting on a sport that you claim to have little knowledge of? How will you know who to back as a winner for example? :::: Make a note - Vic Duggan and Jack Parker retired years ago so don't have them as your betting favourites!! Fair comment mate but just a few quid that would make it more interesting for me. That's all. I have bet on elite league before by looking at the table, past results and who I may fancy on teh night. Not big money or anything. Edited July 8, 2015 by hammers66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Do you smell a rabbit ??? i do smell a rabbit and its working too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Where is this bunny and who is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor... Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 A bit early to start betting on a sport that you claim to have little knowledge of? How will you know who to back as a winner for example? Perhaps because he wants to have a bit of fun ? I know thats an alien concept to you, but good luck to him i say. The odds should give him a reasonable idea of who's expected to win races. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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