The White Knight Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Hi Hammer, you have to throw into the equation the fact that some people just enjoy a good moan. If you haven't worked it out already you'll soon work out that it's the same ones that never have anything good to say. Makes you wonder why they have anything to do with them sport if it upsets them so much and the only conclusion you can draw is they are sad dos that enjoy a good moan. For he rest us I gues we are on an addictive roll or coaster that makes you feel you want to throw yourself of a cliff when your team is doing badly and has you walking on air for days after a good win. Apart from the chronic complainers the rest of the banter should be taken wit.h a large shovel of salt. Most fans my arem ok when You meet up with them. Perhaps that is because there is very little good to say about Speedway at present E I Addio. Falling Crowds, silly Rules all contribute to the way Speedway is going downhill. There are lots of people who have their heads in the sand - but - and it is the first time I have said this, others have said it on here often enough, our Sport is dying. It gives me no pleasure at all to say this. You imply some people on here just moan for the sake it, you are wrong. A lot of people moan on here because they can see the way Speedway is going - to hell in a handcart, and like me are desperately sad about it. I passionately love Speedway but I refuse to go any more. Why is this? In my case, solely because of the Double Points Rule, I know that I am not alone in this. Other folk have other reasons, poor Stadia, disgusting Toilets, Promoters taking Supporters for granted, Promotions bending or even breaking Rules to suit themselves, constant changing of Rules, no consistency in Refereeing. I could go on. When something is done to address these and other wrongs perhaps, just perhaps, some people would return. If they scrapped the Double Points Rule altogether - I know I would. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Welcome Hammers 66 I now fall into the catagory of old but not grumpy. I have a moan when a moan is needed, when we see some of the worst meetings that they can throw at usm, there have been at leat 3 this year the first 2 GP's and the one that will or more likely stick around in everyones mind was the meeting at Coventry that was shown on SKY. I lost my club when Long Eaton's track closed down, luckily the club bounced back and still rides in the MDL now, just a shame that they can't make it back to the bigger leagues, but the cost of running at that level must just be to much for them to take on, you never know one day they make it back up there again, also it was sad to see Weymouth lose their track and are still waiting to find a new location, not sure now if that will ever happen. All in all though Speedway still holds that special something for me, when I go to Leicester to a meeting it still gives you that buzz, the noise the smell of Methanol, also the 4 guys tearing around a track at speeds that send shivers down your spine, they must have more courage than any other motor sport rider put together as they only have such short a time for things to go wrong when they go from the start they only have the matter of seconds before they hit the first bend, at times it all goes very badly wrong . How more riders are not injured in our sport is a miracle. So yes they internet has brought about an awful lot of moaners, not only in speedway but in most things these days. Just sit back enjoy the thrills and sometimes the spills, it is a sport like no other, it is just a shame that the promoters can't see that there is a huge problem with crowd levels falling year in year out, and numerous clubs getting into finanacial problems, clubs having to drop down leagues to make ends meet or just close the doors a lot of them have over the last 30 years or so. Unless they get get new fans to fill the stadiums to the levels of the 50's and 60's maybe just a little bit past that by a few years, then we will see more clubs fold. Hope they come to their senses as it would be a great loss to see Great Britain without any top speedway clubs. What we would be left with would be akin to the MDL or people just riding for the love of it, but you still need the tracks to race on. Here's to a long life for a great sport, not only myself but my Grandson loves speedway and I can't even think of anything else that could fill the gap. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
customhouseregular Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I completely disagree. Many forum members have memories of when speedway was better attended, when English/British riders were the best in the world, when speedway was held in Wembley and not just for a 'one-off' annual meeting. Forum members are not moaning about speedway necessarily, but are lamenting about how speedway was. We want those days back, but I am afraid, they may be gone forever. If the new generation of speedway fans think they can turn things around, then I truly wish you all the luck in the world and hope it happens. I'm with you 100% on this Ray. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 4 riders. 4 laps. Dead right Tsunami told me years ago that its about 4 blokes on bikes without brakes for 4 laps for 3 points and that everything else is more or less fluff. Best and most profound statement I have ever heard about the sport and as valid and correct today as its ever been. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trees Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 100% Halifaxtiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Dead right Tsunami told me years ago that its about 4 blokes on bikes without brakes for 4 laps for 3 points and that everything else is more or less fluff. Best and most profound statement I have ever heard about the sport and as valid and correct today as its ever been. Just a shame the 'fluff' has been plucked or has fallen out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I completely disagree. Many forum members have memories of when speedway was better attended, when English/British riders were the best in the world, when speedway was held in Wembley and not just for a 'one-off' annual meeting. Forum members are not moaning about speedway necessarily, but are lamenting about how speedway was. We want those days back, but I am afraid, they may be gone forever. If the new generation of speedway fans think they can turn things around, then I truly wish you all the luck in the world and hope it happens. I remember when thousands attended meetings, when the British League had all the top riders in the world and when England were world champions for team, pairs and individual. The sport itself is exactly the same today, though. The racing wasn't better then, we still had tactical changes, points limits and guests ,there were still squabbles about the make up of teams and rules, the toilets were a disgrace, tracks existences couldn't be taken for granted and promoters were always trying it on. The only difference between then and now are the attendances. I'd like to go to the days of huge crowds but, quite simply, its still all about 4 blokes on bikes without brakes. If you like that, why stop going ? Hi Hammer, you have to throw into the equation the fact that some people just enjoy a good moan. If you haven't worked it out already you'll soon work out that it's the same ones that never have anything good to say. Makes you wonder why they have anything to do with them sport if it upsets them so much and the only conclusion you can draw is they are sad dos that enjoy a good moan. For he rest us I gues we are on an addictive roll or coaster that makes you feel you want to throw yourself of a cliff when your team is doing badly and has you walking on air for days after a good win. Apart from the chronic complainers the rest of the banter should be taken wit.h a large shovel of salt. Most fans my arem ok when You meet up with them. What annoys me is that those who do most of the moaning don't even go. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I remember when thousands attended meetings, when the British League had all the top riders in the world and when England were world champions for team, pairs and individual. The sport itself is exactly the same today, though. The racing wasn't better then, we still had tactical changes, points limits and guests ,there were still squabbles about the make up of teams and rules, the toilets were a disgrace, tracks existences couldn't be taken for granted and promoters were always trying it on. The only difference between then and now are the attendances. Not true.One big difference between then and now is lots of the alternatives have moved with the times.I used to go to Celtic Park or Highbury and the toilets were terrible,if people could even be bothered to use them.Often they just watered the concrete anywhere they could find a free spot.You were squeezed in and often had no real control on where you were taken by the mass.Go to a football stadium now and it is a totally different experience and that is probably why lots more females go and you will also see a lot more cosmopolitan crowd.Speedway is basically the same experience it was back in the 70s with much the same crowd that went in the 70s.Thse that are still interested.Do you see many minorities at a speedway meeting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I remember when thousands attended meetings, when the British League had all the top riders in the world and when England were world champions for team, pairs and individual. The sport itself is exactly the same today, though. The racing wasn't better then, we still had tactical changes, points limits and guests ,there were still squabbles about the make up of teams and rules, the toilets were a disgrace, tracks existences couldn't be taken for granted and promoters were always trying it on. The only difference between then and now are the attendances. I'd like to go to the days of huge crowds but, quite simply, its still all about 4 blokes on bikes without brakes. If you like that, why stop going ? What annoys me is that those who do most of the moaning don't even go. Maybe so, but the point is, they probably used to! So what does that tell us? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I completely disagree. Many forum members have memories of when speedway was better attended, when English/British riders were the best in the world, when speedway was held in Wembley and not just for a 'one-off' annual meeting. Forum members are not moaning about speedway necessarily, but are lamenting about how speedway was. We want those days back, but I am afraid, they may be gone forever. If the new generation of speedway fans think they can turn things around, then I truly wish you all the luck in the world and hope it happens. Yes we would all like to go back to the days when we were younger, the summers were longer, and the music was better. From what I remember about those days though there were always old boys in the crowd at every stadium telling us it was better when they were young and there were real men like Jack Parker and Split Waterman on the track.. I have books that tell me how great the sport was when Cyclone Billy Lamont and Cordy Milne wee riding so maybe we ought to get rid of GM's and have everyone leg trailing Douglases an and Scotts to see if that brings the crowds back. The fact is that nostalgia aint what it used to be and the central theme of perennial moaners, not just in speedway but in every walk of life is that whatever they are moaning about was better in the past. Unless you can invent a time machine the past wont be coming back so we have deal with the present which, incidental is what the thread is about, otherwise it would be in the years gone by section. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midland Red Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 I completely disagree. Many forum members have memories of when speedway was better attended, when English/British riders were the best in the world, when speedway was held in Wembley and not just for a 'one-off' annual meeting. Forum members are not moaning about speedway necessarily, but are lamenting about how speedway was. We want those days back, but I am afraid, they may be gone forever. If the new generation of speedway fans think they can turn things around, then I truly wish you all the luck in the world and hope it happens. Top post, RS - if only we could go to our local track EVERY week, see "our" team instead of one filled with other teams riders; meet the riders in the bar afterwards instead of them jetting off to foreign parts; a proper Knock Out Cup competition; league champions the team with the most match points; have enough local tracks to run regional cup comps and individual events; each track having one BIG individual meeting; special days out to the Internationale and World Final, yet with none of the "carnival" that the SGP has become There was a lot to be said for the old "club" setup in British speedway From this old grump 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Perhaps that is because there is very little good to say about Speedway at present E I Addio. Falling Crowds, silly Rules all contribute to the way Speedway is going downhill. There are lots of people who have their heads in the sand - but - and it is the first time I have said this, others have said it on here often enough, our Sport is dying. It gives me no pleasure at all to say this. You imply some people on here just moan for the sake it, you are wrong. A lot of people moan on here because they can see the way Speedway is going - to hell in a handcart, and like me are desperately sad about it. I passionately love Speedway but I refuse to go any more. Why is this? In my case, solely because of the Double Points Rule, I know that I am not alone in this. Other folk have other reasons, poor Stadia, disgusting Toilets, Promoters taking Supporters for granted, Promotions bending or even breaking Rules to suit themselves, constant changing of Rules, no consistency in Refereeing. I could go on. When something is done to address these and other wrongs perhaps, just perhaps, some people would return. If they scrapped the Double Points Rule altogether - I know I would. On the contrary , I think it gives you great pleasure to have a dig.. Nobody has said that the state of the sport is ideal, or that the rules are perfect, but most agree there are few experiences like the smell of methanol,, the noise of tortured Jawa's and GM's , the moment of tension as they come under starters orders, or the spectacle of 4 riders in bucking speed irons with no brakes on an unstable surface for One hot Minute. Unfortunately the best you can come up with for not attending a sport you are purportedly passionate about is you don't like the double points rule. As has been pointed out endless times on here the double points rule is less unfair than the tactical substitute rule that preceded it for decades and you must have been going to speedway for years and years under the old TS rule. TBH I loathe the TR rule but some people like it and any mature person would have to accept that when there are a thousand or more other people attending any event there will be differing opinions and you cant have everything your own way. You have to get along with people.As much as I hate the TR rule myself I have to admit that in its present form its probably less unfair than its ever been and if you are going to let that keep you away fair enough but moaning on a forum is not going to change it. I doubt you have advised the SCB of you views. As Halifax Tiger said most of the constant complainers are those who never go anymore, but my original comment was really aimed at those who come on here after virtually every TV and whose command of the ENGLISH language is limited to " It was crap!", which as I said before leads on to wonder why they don't flick mover to another channel if its that bad. Edited July 6, 2015 by E I Addio 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Yes we would all like to go back to the days when we were younger, the summers were longer, and the music was better. From what I remember about those days though there were always old boys in the crowd at every stadium telling us it was better when they were young and there were real men like Jack Parker and Split Waterman on the track.. I have books that tell me how great the sport was when Cyclone Billy Lamont and Cordy Milne wee riding so maybe we ought to get rid of GM's and have everyone leg trailing Douglases an and Scotts to see if that brings the crowds back. The fact is that nostalgia aint what it used to be and the central theme of perennial moaners, not just in speedway but in every walk of life is that whatever they are moaning about was better in the past. Unless you can invent a time machine the past wont be coming back so we have deal with the present which, incidental is what the thread is about, otherwise it would be in the years gone by section. My dad used to watch West Ham when he was a teenager and yes, he was dewy-eyed about the riders he saw at Custom House, but as a 30/40 something he enjoyed the speedway at Rayleigh stadium and can't really remember him moaning, unless it was early season and it was a bit on the chilly side! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruffdiamond Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 On the contrary , I think it gives you great pleasure to have a dig.. Nobody has said that the state of the sport is ideal, or that the rules are perfect, but most agree there are few experiences like the smell of methanol,, the noise of tortured Jawa's and GM's , the moment of tension as they come under starters orders, or the spectacle of 4 riders in bucking speed irons with no brakes on an unstable surface for One hot Minute. Unfortunately the best you can come up with for not attending a sport you are purportedly passionate about is you don't like the double points rule. As has been pointed out endless times on here the double points rule is less unfair than the tactical substitute rule that preceded it for decades and you must have been going to speedway for years and years under the old TS rule. TBH I loathe the TR rule but some people like it and any mature person would have to accept that when there are a thousand or more other people attending any event there will be differing opinions and you cant have everything your own way. You have to get along with people.As much as I hate the TR rule myself I have to admit that in its present form its probably less unfair than its ever been and if you are going to let that keep you away fair enough but moaning on a forum is not going to change it. I doubt you have advised the SCB of you views. As Halifax Tiger said most of the constant complainers are those who never go anymore, but my original comment was really aimed at those who come on here after virtually every TV and whose command of the ENGLISH language is limited to " It was crap!", which as I said before leads on to wonder why they don't flick mover to another channel if its that bad. I like the TR, it also gives teams a chance to avoid it,,, although the old T/S (joker) was good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Dead right Tsunami told me years ago that its about 4 blokes on bikes without brakes for 4 laps for 3 points and that everything else is more or less fluff. Best and most profound statement I have ever heard about the sport and as valid and correct today as its ever been. Fluff can be very irritating and annoying HT. Yes we would all like to go back to the days when we were younger, the summers were longer, and the music was better. From what I remember about those days though there were always old boys in the crowd at every stadium telling us it was better when they were young and there were real men like Jack Parker and Split Waterman on the track.. I have books that tell me how great the sport was when Cyclone Billy Lamont and Cordy Milne wee riding so maybe we ought to get rid of GM's and have everyone leg trailing Douglases an and Scotts to see if that brings the crowds back. The fact is that nostalgia aint what it used to be and the central theme of perennial moaners, not just in speedway but in every walk of life is that whatever they are moaning about was better in the past. Unless you can invent a time machine the past wont be coming back so we have deal with the present which, incidental is what the thread is about, otherwise it would be in the years gone by section. It is provable that it was better in the past. You only have to look at the number of really TOP CLASS Riders who ply their profession in this Country these days compared to then. Or will you contest that as well. On the contrary , I think it gives you great pleasure to have a dig.. Nobody has said that the state of the sport is ideal, or that the rules are perfect, but most agree there are few experiences like the smell of methanol,, the noise of tortured Jawa's and GM's , the moment of tension as they come under starters orders, or the spectacle of 4 riders in bucking speed irons with no brakes on an unstable surface for One hot Minute. Unfortunately the best you can come up with for not attending a sport you are purportedly passionate about is you don't like the double points rule. As has been pointed out endless times on here the double points rule is less unfair than the tactical substitute rule that preceded it for decades and you must have been going to speedway for years and years under the old TS rule. TBH I loathe the TR rule but some people like it and any mature person would have to accept that when there are a thousand or more other people attending any event there will be differing opinions and you cant have everything your own way. You have to get along with people.As much as I hate the TR rule myself I have to admit that in its present form its probably less unfair than its ever been and if you are going to let that keep you away fair enough but moaning on a forum is not going to change it. I doubt you have advised the SCB of you views. As Halifax Tiger said most of the constant complainers are those who never go anymore, but my original comment was really aimed at those who come on here after virtually every TV and whose command of the ENGLISH language is limited to " It was crap!", which as I said before leads on to wonder why they don't flick mover to another channel if its that bad. i) You are judging me and my motives - you can't do that. You don't know me. ii) Tell me any other way I can make my point other than voting with my feet. I hate the Rule and I get angry every time I see the 'Black and White' Helmet Cover. I don't see why I should pay to get myself angry - do you? I am supposed to go to Speedway to enjoy myself - not get annoyed and upset. Suffice to say that I am comfortable with my decision. It's over a year now since I went to a Meeting, and I am missing it less and less. Perhaps I, like so many others, am lost to the Sport for good. iii) I have complained to THREE different Promoters regarding the Double Points Rule. Much good it did me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gresham Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 The Sport is just to complicated for it's own good. It feels totally like an individual sport rather than a team sport. I've always wanted to see bulk standard factory non tuned engines bolted into a frame....and then just raced. I used to be really into the sport...travelling the length and breadth of the country. Knew all the riders...the in's and out's of averages and Club politics. It did my head in...the best advise someone gave me, like has been said before...just watch 4 blokes racing and forget the rest. Don't buy a programme...don't follow the results or scores....just watch the racing. It was quiet a moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Stadia Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 On the contrary , I think it gives you great pleasure to have a dig.. Nobody has said that the state of the sport is ideal, or that the rules are perfect, but most agree there are few experiences like the smell of methanol,, the noise of tortured Jawa's and GM's , the moment of tension as they come under starters orders, or the spectacle of 4 riders in bucking speed irons with no brakes on an unstable surface for One hot Minute. Unfortunately the best you can come up with for not attending a sport you are purportedly passionate about is you don't like the double points rule. As has been pointed out endless times on here the double points rule is less unfair than the tactical substitute rule that preceded it for decades and you must have been going to speedway for years and years under the old TS rule. TBH I loathe the TR rule but some people like it and any mature person would have to accept that when there are a thousand or more other people attending any event there will be differing opinions and you cant have everything your own way. You have to get along with people.As much as I hate the TR rule myself I have to admit that in its present form its probably less unfair than its ever been and if you are going to let that keep you away fair enough but moaning on a forum is not going to change it. I doubt you have advised the SCB of you views. As Halifax Tiger said most of the constant complainers are those who never go anymore, but my original comment was really aimed at those who come on here after virtually every TV and whose command of the ENGLISH language is limited to " It was crap!", which as I said before leads on to wonder why they don't flick mover to another channel if its that bad. I for one, would never say the end product is crap. I appreciate the sport is dangerous and the riders put on the best show they can and I enjoy speedway whatever level I watch it at. The racing I have no issue with. But it doesn't stop me wishing it was like it was 'yesteryear'. When we had 2 leagues that were full of home grown talent. When teams virtually stayed together from one season to another. When local riders rode for their local team. When the stadiums had half decent attendances. And as has been said, many individual meetings that had meaning and were popular. There is much more I could say. That is what I miss! But, yes the basic product is still there, but for me, I want the 'old fluff' as well! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van wolfswinkel Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) I for one, would never say the end product is crap. I appreciate the sport is dangerous and the riders put on the best show they can and I enjoy speedway whatever level I watch it at. The racing I have no issue with. But it doesn't stop me wishing it was like it was 'yesteryear'. When we had 2 leagues that were full of home grown talent. When teams virtually stayed together from one season to another. When local riders rode for their local team. When the stadiums had half decent attendances. And as has been said, many individual meetings that had meaning and were popular. There is much more I could say. That is what I miss! But, yes the basic product is still there, but for me, I want the 'old fluff' as well! Well said Mr.Stadia...certainly the bit about the home-grown talent that fans could identify with, and rode for the team for years, and then you could go into the pits and get the autographs of your heroes, but were too shy to say anything! Nowadays just some half-hearted waves from some mercenaries who want to make a quick exit to ride in Poland, Sweden, Denmark etc., The racing is as good as and faster than ever! Edited July 6, 2015 by haydon hat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) Fluff can be very irritating and annoying HT. Didn't stop me marvelling at Tai Woffinden's incredible last to first on Saturday night, seeing Matej Zagar at his sublime best at Belle Vue (because when he's good, he's very, very good), watching Jack Holder hold off Simon Stead for three laps at Sheffield or witnessing a terrific race between Danny Halsey and Kyle Hughes at King's Lynn. Great speedway at every level of our sport and not affected by fluff in the slightest. And that's the point. As far as I am concerned, the rule bending, the cheating, the backbiting and the viciousness simply doesn't exist when those four blokes drop their clutches. I have a lot of regard for you, Ian, you know that. But for the life of me I can't grasp the mentality of walking away from the sport that you have admitted you love for the sake of one rule. Well said Mr.Stadia...certainly the bit about the home-grown talent that fans could identify with, and rode for the team for years, and then you could go into the pits and get the autographs of your heroes, but were too shy to say anything! Nowadays just some half-hearted waves from some mercenaries who want to make a quick exit to ride in Poland, Sweden, Denmark etc., The racing is as good as and faster than ever! In the overwhelming majority of cases, that's simply not true. On Friday night, a friend of mine posted pictures on Facebook of her little girl with first Danny King and then Rohan Tungate and that is repeated across the sport. Edited July 6, 2015 by Halifaxtiger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulco Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Of course the real reason for any negativity is down to the Edinburgh Monarchs . Every year they manage to fluke out a good side , some years annoyingly good . Until they become a diddy team the sport will always have a nasty taste in it's mouth 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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