Somerset And The Confederate Flag

[Truro Robin]

Worlds gone mental....apparently America has banned 'the Dukes of Hazard' series from being played on TV now.

 

I wonder if a black speedway rider would object to riding for Somerset?

 

Bristol was pretty much built on the Slave trade....we still have 'Blackboy hill' and 'Whiteladies Rd'....no one objects....it's history.

 

Colston was the main Slave trader....the music venue is named after him....we even have a statue of him.

 

Although some bands won't play at the venue, because of what he represented.

 

Look at any flag and at some point in history it represented fear and hatred.

 

You've only got to look at our own flag....we pretty much raped and pilleged the world throughout history.

 

 

If there were any, other than Antonio Lindback .

[ruffdiamond]

I don't like fish,,, can we have John West shut down

[Ray Stadia]

Worlds gone mental....apparently America has banned 'the Dukes of Hazard' series from being played on TV now.

 

I wonder if a black speedway rider would object to riding for Somerset?

 

Bristol was pretty much built on the Slave trade....we still have 'Blackboy hill' and 'Whiteladies Rd'....no one objects....it's history.

 

Colston was the main Slave trader....the music venue is named after him....we even have a statue of him.

 

Although some bands won't play at the venue, because of what he represented.

 

Look at any flag and at some point in history it represented fear and hatred.

 

You've only got to look at our own flag....we pretty much raped and pilleged the world throughout history.

 

 

Someone will now!

[iris123]

Worlds gone mental....apparently America has banned 'the Dukes of Hazard' series from being played on TV now.

 

I wonder if a black speedway rider would object to riding for Somerset?

 

Bristol was pretty much built on the Slave trade....we still have 'Blackboy hill' and 'Whiteladies Rd'....no one objects....it's history.

 

Colston was the main Slave trader....the music venue is named after him....we even have a statue of him.

 

Although some bands won't play at the venue, because of what he represented.

 

Look at any flag and at some point in history it represented fear and hatred.

 

You've only got to look at our own flag....we pretty much raped and pilleged the world throughout history.

 

 

Maybe no one objects because the origins are unknown according to this and not related to the slave trade and maybe not even to black boys as such

 

https://texthistory.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/debunking-myths-on-bristol-slavery/

[Conkers in Gravy]

NO!!

 

I will put this as simply as I can. The Confederates fought for the RIGHT of their States to secede from the Union - that is what I meant by Freedom. That is initially what the War was about. It took Lincoln's Emancipation Act to turn the Civil War in to an ante Slavery Crusade.

 

I agree that there will be very few, if any, Black people who will have any respect for the Battle Flag but you never know.

 

From a Historical perspective, though, that Battle Flag has as much American blood on it as any Union Flag. It is due respect.

I disagree. Slavery was the prime issue separating the northern states from the south from the early 1850s. There were other issues for sure, but slavery and the right to maintain state laws governing slavery were the prime causes of the war. I notice you earlier said Antietam was a Union victory which is highly contentious. The north had the better of the fighting, but failed to press home their advantage largely through poor generalship.

 

The flag has undoubtedly become a racist symbol in the USA, but has less relevance here although I'd prefer it wasn't used. I always assumed Somerset were the Rebels because of the unhappy Duke of Monmouth rebellion against James II/VII which ended at Sedgemoor nearby. Perhaps a better logo would be a hangman's noose or a prison ship leaving Bristol for the colonies.

Precisely. "Immediate cause of Secession".

 

But the War itself was caused by that Secession, not Slavery. Slavery may have been behind the argument, as you say, I still maintain though, that the War started because of the Southern States seceding from the Union - not because of Slavery.

 

The Histories that I have read are all consistent in this - even Shelby Foote's excellent Three Volume Civil War History written from a Southern point of view.

 

In case you think I am being blinkered here - I have also read Bruce Catton's Three Volume History too - that is written from the Northern point of view.

You kind of said it yourself "slavery was behind the issue". I would argue "no slavery, no war". You probably disagree!

[The White Knight]

I disagree. Slavery was the prime issue separating the northern states from the south from the early 1850s. There were other issues for sure, but slavery and the right to maintain state laws governing slavery were the prime causes of the war. I notice you earlier said Antietam was a Union victory which is highly contentious. The north had the better of the fighting, but failed to press home their advantage largely through poor generalship.

 

The flag has undoubtedly become a racist symbol in the USA, but has less relevance here although I'd prefer it wasn't used. I always assumed Somerset were the Rebels because of the unhappy Duke of Monmouth rebellion against James II/VII which ended at Sedgemoor nearby. Perhaps a better logo would be a hangman's noose or a prison ship leaving Bristol for the colonies.

 

You kind of said it yourself "slavery was behind the issue". I would argue "no slavery, no war". You probably disagree!

I would.

 

No Secession - No War would be a better way of putting it.

 

As I have already said, initially Lincoln was happy for Slavery to be left alone in the Southern Slave States. It wasn't until after Antietam (1862) that he felt able to enact his Emancipation Act in 1863. Antietam, as you say was a very narrow victory but enough of a one to allow Lincoln to to bring forward his Act.

 

That changed the complexion of the War completely. Not only did it ensure that the North was seen to be making a Crusade against Slavery, it also ensured that European Countries including Britain would/could not recognize the Confederacy.

 

From then on - the Confederacy was doomed.

[ruffdiamond]

No,,, definitely, lol

 

 

See :-)

Edited July 3, 2015 by ruffdiamond

[Falcon Hammer]

Thanks for the history lesson White Knight, hope another flag gets banned, and you can educate me some more

 

When I was a nipper I remember disliking Gordon Kennett because I saw him on the cover of the Star with Confederate flag on his Oxford race jacket & thought he was a white supremacist?!?

 

Reckon I'd recently watched the film "In the Heat of the Night"

Edited July 3, 2015 by Falcon Hammer

[Lord Skid]

Bubba Watson owns the original car, he has had the flag removed from it.

[chunky]

Until any gun law is enforced in the US nothing will ever change. But the NRA are way to powerful for this to happen though, so regrettably this won't be the last case of these kind of things happening.

I would just like to make a point here...

 

It's easy to sit on the other side of the world and make judgements based on casual observation, and I've become all too familiar with the British stating that we need to get rid of guns here in the US. I don't like guns, and I do not own one - yet. The thing to remember is that, while you may want to take all the guns away from the law-abiding general public, that would only cause more mass shootings. Whatever happens, criminals will ALWAYS have guns, and by taking away the opportunity for the public to defend themselves, the criminals would be free to do what they want. Many of the mass shootings of innocents we have had would have been prevented had individuals in those locations actually been armed at the time.

 

I know it's bad that it has got this far, but disarming the public is NOT even close to being any kind of solution...

 

Steve

[Grachan]

Black Boy Hill in Bristol is named after the Black Boy Inn that once stood there.

 

It is believed to have been named after Charles II, whose nickname was The Black Boy.

[ch958]

I can see something on the horizon miles away - just get my binoculars - oh yes its the original topic

[Humphrey Appleby]

It's easy to sit on the other side of the world and make judgements based on casual observation, and I've become all too familiar with the British stating that we need to get rid of guns here in the US.

 

What people outside the US often don't understand, is there are vast areas with very little practical law enforcement, and where police help can be many miles away. People need to have guns for their own protection.

 

There have also been a couple of events in the UK in recent times - the container ship wreck and the nationwide riots - where law and order broke down almost completely. This demonstrated that even in the most stable, prosperous nations, we're only ever one step from anarchy if people feel there will be no consequences for their actions. In these circumstances, how are people expected to protect themselves?

Edited July 6, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[ruffdiamond]

I can see something on the horizon miles away - just get my binoculars - oh yes its the original topic

I think that because it's a forum and people will always have different opinions, things will always get 'side-tracked',,, maybe if original thread/topic starters stipulated that a simple YES/NO answer will suffice, I can't see things changing,,,

[teddy2706]

It's a mystery to me why anyone in Britain would want to use any American emblem on their sports team equipment.

 

Surely too, Somerset was pivotal in the "rebellion" in the English Civil War in any case?

 

Also, if I never heard that loathsome "You have two minutes" in an American accent again I would be delighted, what's wrong in having the two minute warning in local accents?

[ruffdiamond]

'yiv got 2 minits'

[ch958]

I think that because it's a forum and people will always have different opinions, things will always get 'side-tracked',,, maybe if original thread/topic starters stipulated that a simple YES/NO answer will suffice, I can't see things changing,,,

they are usually quite entertaining but this one's boring!

[Humphrey Appleby]

'yiv got 2 minits'

 

Yar... and a combine harvester...

Edited July 6, 2015 by Humphrey Appleby

[ruffdiamond]

they are usually quite entertaining but this one's boring!

hmmm, but your still reading it, lol

 

Yar... and a combine harvester...

is it brand new,,, and who's got the key

[tyretrax]

Does anyone think that 'Robinsons' should be allowed to put the funny little man back on their jam ???

I have seen golly dolls in shops which are run by Asians.