Gemini Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Obviously Coventry must have used the 'Birds and Bees' method of choosing years ago and opted for the insect. I wonder why they came up with the Bees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafski Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Obviously Coventry must have used the 'Birds and Bees' method of choosing years ago and opted for the insect. I wonder why they came up with the Bees? Were the Fans getting "stung" while the Promoters were "Making Honey" Edited January 26, 2016 by Oafski 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Obviously Coventry must have used the 'Birds and Bees' method of choosing years ago and opted for the insect. I wonder why they came up with the Bees? I suspect it's as simple as alliteration: Brandon Bees. Same as Poole Pirates, Leicester Lions, Reading Racers, (Middles)Boro Bears and so on. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Nick Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Paye Sort of Piratey link to Poole. Heroes to the English but Pirates to the French & Spanish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Really? I asked quite a few friends and family when this debate first arose and none of them made that association. Maybe in America but not suburban Britain. As for stupid and irrelevant nicknames, where would you draw the line? Witches ( occult)? Pirates (criminals)? Worst case scenario is we'd end up with all nicknames having to be selected from a PC-approved list of cuddly happy-clappy ones. Speedway is an extreme sport and nicknames are a good way of reflecting that. Not really sure why the thread has drifted onto nicknames now. No-one on either side of the discussion seems to have any issue with Somerset being named the Rebels. So it's a bit unfair - and wholly inaccurate - to assume people who believe the Confederate Flag to be an inappropriate symbol are also campaigning against the Rebels, Devils, Pirates as offensive nicknames. They are not. So why tar them with this brush? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I quite like the American Idea of naming teams with historic events or traditions specific to their area , Pittsburg steelers, colorado avalanche . Coventry Blitz anyone ? could be a good one that , suits all round , historic connection and something to be offended about aswell , win win Actually the name Somerset Rebels does have a closer link to a historic event than most Speedwáy team names. One of the most historic events in the county was the Pitchfork Rebellion which was brought to an end in 1685 at the Battle of Sedgemoor, not far from the site of the present track. So Rebels is an appropriate name for the team . I suppose technically they could wear a pitchfork on their Kevlars but that's a bit of a symbol of working class farm workers and peasants being anihilated by the Kings forces so personally I think the confederate flag is ideal as is synonymous with the spirit of rebellion. So it seems to me that the Confederate flag is an ideal emblem . It is appropriate for a team suitably called the rebels, it sums up the spirit of defiance that a Speedwáy team seems to embody, and it upsets the terminally upset-able who would be happier with an ISIS flag. Happy Faces? Teams should be named after nice British birds Somehow I don't think the Kings Lynn Cheryl's or the Wolverhamton Adeles would work. The Poole Prostitutes sounds about right though. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 it upsets the terminally upset-able who would be happier with an ISIS flag. Who's that then? Name them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halifaxtiger Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Actually the name Somerset Rebels does have a closer link to a historic event than most Speedwáy team names. One of the most historic events in the county was the Pitchfork Rebellion which was brought to an end in 1685 at the Battle of Sedgemoor, not far from the site of the present track. So Rebels is an appropriate name for the team . I suppose technically they could wear a pitchfork on their Kevlars but that's a bit of a symbol of working class farm workers and peasants being anihilated by the Kings forces so personally I think the confederate flag is ideal as is synonymous with the spirit of rebellion. So it seems to me that the Confederate flag is an ideal emblem . It is appropriate for a team suitably called the rebels, it sums up the spirit of defiance that a Speedwáy team seems to embody, and it upsets the terminally upset-able who would be happier with an ISIS flag. Mildenhall are the same. The Fen Tigers doesn't refer to a big striped cat but a group of people from the area who fought against the draining of the Fens in the 17th century. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Personally we have 'our' own Rebels much closer to Somerset,so I wonder why they didn't use a yellow harp on a green background or even the Starry Plough flag from the Citizen army.That would upset the pc brigade!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Oxford Owls sounds awful to me Most speedway teams are nicknamed with something appropriate to the fast and/or extreme nature of the sport. Many nicknames have nothing to do with British culture e.g. Vikings (Scandinavian), Tigers (mostly Asian based), Cheetahs (mostly in Africa), etc. Oxford were after updating their image in 1972 (a new start after poor seasons from 1966 to 1971), and as you say, there was a bit of a craze on for the American South, so Rebels was adopted. All the best Rob The Oxford promotion Oxspeed Ltd (which was fronted by Dave Lanning) wished to create a new image after years of mediocracy and came up with the name 'Rebels' which was marketed and proved popular at the time (1972) and caught the imagination of the fans. Personally I never had a problem with it and have a replica 'Rebels' race jacket that I have on display at home. Edited January 25, 2016 by steve roberts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Oxford Owls sounds awful to me Most speedway teams are nicknamed with something appropriate to the fast and/or extreme nature of the sport. Many nicknames have nothing to do with British culture e.g. Vikings (Scandinavian), All the best Rob I am surprised at you Rob.Never heard of Stamford Bridge or Danelaw???? I think you will find that Hull lies in the part of the country that came under Dane or Norse rule. As it was back when the Rebels flag was used in speedway,most of us were young and didn't understand it's meaning.It was just a nice design and a bit trendy.But those that chose it were adults and should have known a bit better.Seems like common sense has ruled and the flag has been dropped.It is fairly irrelevant if some don't understand its meaning or others sit at home in their rebels underpants,wearing a Ku Klux Klan head dress and a Hitler on tour t-shirt.What people do in their own home is mainly their own business.In public it is another matter. There was a discussion on tv last night about the legacy of the Nazis which at one point turned to the recent trend to make Hitler a bit of a comic figure and some historians were appalled and saying this was making him seem foolish and harmless when he was anything but....... Edited January 25, 2016 by iris123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Never heard of Stamford Bridge or Danelaw???? I think you will find that Hull lies in the part of the country that came under Dane or Norse rule. Iris, thanks for that one. No I didn't realise. In which case, that's one nickname that wasn't randomly picked from the air. I should have guessed, due to the lack of alliteration. As it was back when the Rebels flag was used in speedway,most of us were young and didn't understand it's meaning.It was just a nice design and a bit trendy.But those that chose it were adults and should have known a bit better. Apart from the flag didn't have those connotations until mid-2015. Until those murders last year, did you see a single complaint about Oxford, White City or Somerset using the Confederate flag? If so, please provide me the link to the thread. Ta. All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Apart from the flag didn't have those connotations until mid-2015. Until those murders last year, did you see a single complaint about Oxford, White City or Somerset using the Confederate flag? If so, please provide me the link to the thread. Ta. All the best Rob Back in 2009 Rob.Do I need to look further? http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=46141&page=2&hl=%2Bconfederate+%2Bflag&do=findComment&comment=1408062 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Back in 2009 Rob.Do I need to look further? http://www.speedway-forum.co.uk/forums/index.php?showtopic=46141&page=2&hl=%2Bconfederate+%2Bflag&do=findComment&comment=1408062 Typical Shawn But it's interesting the lack of response he gets - people were hardly clamouring on board asking for the Confederate Flag to be removed from the Somerset race-jacket, were they? All the best Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Typical Shawn But it's interesting the lack of response he gets - people were hardly clamouring on board asking for the Confederate Flag to be removed from the Somerset race-jacket, were they? All the best Rob Rob,stop trying to squirm around here.It wasn't ok then it wasn't ok back in the 70s and it isn't ok now.Whether some people didn't say so back on one thread that they might never have looked at is neither here nor there.We can say that Hitler was ok at first because although some people gave warnings most didn't take any notice.You asked for a link to earlier than 2015 concerns and I gave it to you...........As someone earlier pointed out,the problem isn't with the nickname it Is the flag Edited January 25, 2016 by iris123 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Rob,stop trying to squirm around here.It wasn't ok then it wasn't ok back in the 70s and it isn't ok now.Whether some people didn't say so back on one thread that they might never have looked at is neither here nor there.We can say that Hitler was ok at first because although some people gave warnings most didn't take any notice.You asked for a link to earlier than 2015 concerns and I gave it to you...........As someone earlier pointed out,the problem isn't with the nickname it Is the flag But comparing the Confederate Flag with the Nazi flag is ridiculous and shows your desperation. No-one in their right mind would use the Nazi flag from the outset of the second world war. On the other hand, the Confederate flag was plastered everyone in the 1970s, a hundred years after the American Civil War. Even over in the United States. Dave Lanning was/is a highly intelligent man. Would he introduced a flag if it had any connotations? Of course not. In fact, the whole '72 Oxford programme had a theme - a cartoon of Lanning in Southern uniform, etc. The flag was never the problem. The problem was the people who have perverted it, in recent times. Most notably, last year. Fair play to Somerset for changing it, but there was no problem to anyone using it in 1972 or 1976 or 2000. All the best Rob Edited January 25, 2016 by lucifer sam 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iris123 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 But comparing the Confederate Flag with the Nazi flag is ridiculous. No-one in their right mind would use the Nazi flag from the outset of the second world war. On the other hand, the Confederate flag was plastered everyone in the 1970s, a hundred years after the American Civil War. Even over in the United States. Dave Lanning was/is a highly intelligent man. Would he introduced a flag if it had any connotations? Of course not. In fact, the whole '72 Oxford programme had a theme - a cartoon of Lanning in Southern uniform, etc. The flag was never the problem. The problem was the people who have perverted it, in recent times. Most notably, last year. Fair play to Somerset for changing it, but there was no problem to anyone using it in 1972 or 1976 or 2000. All the best Rob But that is the point the historians were making........over time and distance and possibly peoples ignorance there is a danger that they lose sight of the meaning of things.The flag was always a problem,but in America in the 60s and 70s there was a sort of nostalgia for those things.The country was still very racist..... We also had a period in the east of Germany when there was a thing called Ostalgia,i.e a nostalgia for the communist era.An attempt by some at least to play down the evils of the regime and pick out things that were good. That is also a worry as I say of some historians that this could happen with the Nazis.We have had a few cases of prominent people trying to pick out things during Hitlers reign that were good Distance often changes the power of images.I remember going to France in the 70s/80s and there were Red Army Faction t-shirts openly on sale!!! You could probably go back then to New York or Sydney and find IRA t-shirts on sale.They were seen as heroic 'rebels'.It doesn't make any difference if I went down the road with a UVF t-shirt and people didn't understand what it was,thought it a nice symbol and made no objections.It would still be objectionable 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Obviously Coventry must have used the 'Birds and Bees' method of choosing years ago and opted for the insect. I wonder why they came up with the Bees? In an interview I did with Charles Ochiltree, back in the Good Old Days of the Speedway Mail, the C.O. explained that the Brandon Bee was chosen more to wind up the Birmingham promotion at the time than for any other reason. Birmingham of course having the 'B' emblem on Racejackets. ATB Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Typical Shawn But it's interesting the lack of response he gets - people were hardly clamouring on board asking for the Confederate Flag to be removed from the Somerset race-jacket, were they? All the best Rob Yes the response was largely indifferent back then. Personally, it was enough to raise my eyebrows, but I wasn't sufficiently offended to make an issue of it. But when that flag became so overtly a symbol of racist hatred, then things changed. The Somerset promotion have done absolutely the right thing. There was no knee jerk reaction last year, they have took the opportunity of a new season and have made a sensible and sensitive decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Obviously Coventry must have used the 'Birds and Bees' method of choosing years ago and opted for the insect. I wonder why they came up with the Bees? Brandon Bees , long before they were Coventry bees , and dont forget when they started there was already a Coventry team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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