Half Term Thoughts

[Woz01]

 

This is a League wide problem. The meeting at Poole last Wednesday was like pulling teeth and didn't finish til nearly 10.

 

Not much can be done about on track incidents but it is possible to recover time in these instances. The last half a dozen heats at Vue on Monday were rattled off impressively after a few delays earlier in the night.

 

Polish league seems to run effortlessly when you watch the TV meetings so presume they utilise a race director to keep things moving.

 

A League wide directive to improve the running of meetings would be a good start. A meeting starting at 7.30 should be done by 9.15.

Coventry has done very well in that regard in the last few meetings, especially as I've had to get up at 5 the next day for work!

[tellboy]

Well looking at the half term averages Coventry,Lynn and Swindon all in the running for the top 4 can strengthen up considerably.These rolling averages seem to help teams in good positions already.

[arnieg]

Latest Greensheets make interesting reading.

 

Lakeside are on 35.05, 2.84 higher than Cov (32.21), so Cov can strengthen up! Lakeside's average will drop when Jonsson finally gets a real average but Lakeside's main weakness is at reserve and they can't do much in the way of strengthening up.

 

Walasek, and Musielak are still on pre-2015 averages.

 

Ignoring Jonsson who's real average will be below 8, the top riders in the EL by official average are:

 

1 Macej Janowski 8.76 (taking over no 1 spot from Doyle)

2 Jason Doyle 8.65 (who said he wasn't a decent number 1?)

3 N-K Iversen 8.26

4 Chris Holder 8.13 (helped by a month as a second string)

4 Scott Nicholls 7.96 (nearly a point above Zagar)

5 Nick Morris 7.96 (a double upper!)

 

There are nine double uppers with higher EL averages than Sam Masters - but turn to the PL averages and (bar injured Simon Stead) Masters is only below Danny King.

 

Poole and Coventry have the best EDR pairings, Lakeside and Leicester (partly due to Auty missing so many meetings) the weakest

 

Now look at the League table

Edited June 24, 2015 by arnieg

[SCB]

Well looking at the half term averages Coventry,Lynn and Swindon all in the running for the top 4 can strengthen up considerably.These rolling averages seem to help teams in good positions already.

It's not to do with rolling averages. Rolling averages are actually keeping the Coventry averages up higher, not lower. It's all down to having a good reserve in the case of Coventry - when your reserve is your number 1 by average you're always likely to have an advatanage.

[E I Addio]

 

You're not grasping it.

 

It's got little to do with the existing fans attending at £5. It's everything to do with sending a message out to NON existing speedway fans that the sport is worth them paying any form of attention too.

 

It's really quite simple.. a sports fan flicking through channels sees something watched by a few people in a sparse stadium that he knows little about, he/she isn't going to stick around long to find out more.

 

A casual observer flicking through, sees a big crowd seemingly being entertained, their curiosity is peeked... the sheep mentality begins to kick in.

 

It's not an overnight fix, its a long term effect.

 

You either want TV coverage to send a positive image, or a negative one. At the moment it is negative. What is the use in that?

 

 

No you are not grasping it. In any business the first step is obviously to get your customers through the door. The more difficult step is to keep them coming back while at the same time keeping your exiting clients.. If someone sees a TV meeting and decides to give it a go consider the following real life situations that may face him :

 

1. He stands for two hours in the piddling rain at a meeting that shouldn't have started only for one team to decide its too dangerous for them to race but the meeting carries on to heat 10 so he doesn't get any money back. Is he likely to be back ? I doubt it

 

2. He Goes to a meeting where the stand out riders for the visitors are Freddie Lindgren and Peter Karlsson, and Jason Doyle rides at no1 for the home team. Next time he goes there is another visiting team bur Peter Karlsson is riding for them as well and Freddie Lindgren now rides at No1 for the home team. Next time he goes there is yet another visiting side but Peter Karlsson is riding for that team as well and this time Rory Schlein rides No1 for the home team, then next time he goes Rory is riding for the visiting team. The next week someone else is missing because he is riding for another team in another league so the 1-5 he paid to go to see become a 1-4 and the others take the missing riders rides, and so it goes on. week after week Is he likely to keep coming back ?

 

And all this is without meetings where he stands around in the cold for over two hours because the track has not been properly prepared or the starting gate keeps failing or there are endless false starts or someone needs a break because they have been taking extra rides etc. etc,, There are a whole plethora of similar things that are driving long term fans away. There are many posters on this forum who where once avid fans but who cant be tempted back, or at least cant be tempted back on a regular basis . If the sport cant even hang onto these fans who have been loyal in the past how is it ever going to hang on to new ones who have not even built up any loyalty yet ?

[BWitcher]

 

 

No you are not grasping it. In any business the first step is obviously to get your customers through the door. The more difficult step is to keep them coming back while at the same time keeping your exiting clients.. If someone sees a TV meeting and decides to give it a go consider the following real life situations that may face him :

 

1. He stands for two hours in the piddling rain at a meeting that shouldn't have started only for one team to decide its too dangerous for them to race but the meeting carries on to heat 10 so he doesn't get any money back. Is he likely to be back ? I doubt it

 

2. He Goes to a meeting where the stand out riders for the visitors are Freddie Lindgren and Peter Karlsson, and Jason Doyle rides at no1 for the home team. Next time he goes there is another visiting team bur Peter Karlsson is riding for them as well and Freddie Lindgren now rides at No1 for the home team. Next time he goes there is yet another visiting side but Peter Karlsson is riding for that team as well and this time Rory Schlein rides No1 for the home team, then next time he goes Rory is riding for the visiting team. The next week someone else is missing because he is riding for another team in another league so the 1-5 he paid to go to see become a 1-4 and the others take the missing riders rides, and so it goes on. week after week Is he likely to keep coming back ?

 

And all this is without meetings where he stands around in the cold for over two hours because the track has not been properly prepared or the starting gate keeps failing or there are endless false starts or someone needs a break because they have been taking extra rides etc. etc,, There are a whole plethora of similar things that are driving long term fans away. There are many posters on this forum who where once avid fans but who cant be tempted back, or at least cant be tempted back on a regular basis . If the sport cant even hang onto these fans who have been loyal in the past how is it ever going to hang on to new ones who have not even built up any loyalty yet ?

 

Those are different issues that of course also need attention and resolving.

 

However, that doesn't mean you don't fix what CAN be fixed.

 

Forget old fans who don't go anymore, they're almost never going to come back. Speedway isn't the only sport that has a turnover of fans. I know of many, many people who were season ticket holders at football teams and you would never think they would stop going.. however they have.. and they simply don't go anymore or show much if any interest in going. The difference is that they are replaced by new fans. That will be the same across all sports. The issue speedway has is the 'new fans' don't in anyway cover the fans who no longer go. That trend has to be reversed.

[ouch]

I think it's fair to say the Coventry are currently in the I'm alright Jack phase.

[SCB]

I think it's fair to say the Coventry are currently in the I'm alright Jack phase.

Doesn't mean some of us can't see some of the issues. I remember saying 2 Novembers ago, get the two reserves right and even if you mess up your top 5, by virtue of having a good reserve you can strengthen up. Do it the other way around and you're screwed. If it's taken the BSPA a season and a half to work out what I worked out pre-first season of the draft then more fool them. As luck would have it, it's my team that has gain from the BSPAs inability to predict the consequences of any rushed rule changes.

 

IMO, the draft should work as it does now BUT the points limit should be for the whole 1-7 and if Coventry want to keep Garrity and Sarj, it should mean having less points for the 1-5. The picks are still done in the same order (bottom of the league first) but Coventry can agree to swap, for example, with Lakeside and take Birks for Garrity but Coventry then get Lakesides position in the draft too. Coventry may prefer to have Birks and save 3 points on team building where as Lakeside just want a good reserve.

Edited June 24, 2015 by SCB

[Red Flag]

I think it's fair to say the Coventry are currently in the I'm alright Jack phase.

. and so are most clubs that's why we are in the mess we are now

[Woz01]

Coventry are also with the advantage of having their 2 reserves as assets, they won't miss a meeting unless injured. Still can't believe we managed to get Sarjeant in the draft, more fool the other promoters I'd say! I do agree that even with the draft riders should have an average for team building purposes.

Edited June 24, 2015 by woz01

[E I Addio]

Doesn't mean some of us can't see some of the issues. I remember saying 2 Novembers ago, get the two reserves right and even if you mess up your top 5, by virtue of having a good reserve you can strengthen up. Do it the other way around and you're screwed. If it's taken the BSPA a season and a half to work out what I worked out pre-first season of the draft then more fool them. As luck would have it, it's my team that has gain from the BSPAs inability to predict the consequences of any rushed rule changes.

 

IMO, the draft should work as it does now BUT the points limit should be for the whole 1-7 and if Coventry want to keep Garrity and Sarj, it should mean having less points for the 1-5. The picks are still done in the same order (bottom of the league first) but Coventry can agree to swap, for example, with Lakeside and take Birks for Garrity but Coventry then get Lakesides position in the draft too. Coventry may prefer to have Birks and save 3 points on team building where as Lakeside just want a good reserve.

The other problem is that some riders are in the draft who are too good for that level in other words they are more tan capable of holding a place in the 1-5. For example Garrity and Blackbird have both at times been out and replaced expensive foreign imports in heat 13 and scored points at that level so clearly it's a nonsense to have them in protected heats against NL riders.

 

We also have Josh Auty brought into the draft this year. Now with all due respect to Josh, what is he going to learn at reserve for Leicester that he wouldn't already have learned riding at reserve for Coventry 6 years ago? Basically we have probably 4 riders in the top tier of the draft who really ought to be at a higher level and there places should be filled by young riders who need to work alongside the top dogs to gain experience and knowledge.

 

Either the EDR is a genuine attempt to bring on young Brits or it is an attempt to get good riders on the cheap, but it can't be both, although that's what they are trying to do at the moment.

 

The trouble is the sport is on a knife edge at the top level. It only takes one EL club to go under and the Sky deal collapses. These things have to be got right. Unfortunately the PL numpties won't come on board with the scheme, preferring to to go down the rent-a-foreigner route and that is a major part of the problem.

Edited June 24, 2015 by E I Addio

[SCB]

Blackbird too good? Did you see him at your place on Monday?

[cityrebel]

Blackbird too good? Did you see him at your place on Monday?

i was there, he didn't look fully fit to me.

[E I Addio]

Blackbird too good? Did you see him at your place on Monday?

Yes, having a howler on a wet track, but last time Wolves were down he scored ( from memory) about 13 and beat Jason Doyle in heat 13, so really riders of that level and that age a shouldn't really be in protected heats against NL riders . I would say Steve Worrall should be about the top end of the top tier and the rest are good enough to to be making their own way otherwise the disparity between the best and worst is too great. Hence, as people have already said we have a situation in which Lakeside's 1-5 have averaged pretty much the same as Coventrys but one is top the other is bottom mainly due to the difference at reserve. In all of Lakeside's four home defeats their 1-5 out scored the opposing 1-5 but the matches were lost at reserve. The problem is that the way the draft works it's almost impossible to get worthwhile replacements.

 

I am not implying criticism of any of the riders, it just the way the draft works thst makes the league more or less decided on the picks.

[ouch]

Trouble is the BSPA or certain members DO know what's going on but if your not in the loop you're gonna get shafted.

The EDF is the perfect example.

They wanted lads geographically placed to join teams to keep travelling cost down. Don't forget this whole process was brought in to save money. It's then obvious that this didn't suit some so the last to first system was used. This is pointless in speedway as teams can and do change so much from season to season finishing last has little to no bearing on the following year. So, ok they have a system in place but then again it didn't suit some so another convoluted system comes into play for the next season. We also had it where Steve was made the highest graded rider on the list that then affected your second pick place. Fair enough but then only weeks later this system is dispensed for another.

I don't even know why I'm going into all this as we all know it's bent, obviously bent and that's why we are pushing not just losing but pushing our hardcore fans away from the sport.

[SCB]

Worall is an odd place to put the limit seeing as he averages 1.5 more in the PL than any draft riders last year and the difference in the EL between him, Newman and Garrity was negligible. Kerr and Blackbird were some way ahead.

[Aces51]

Not sure about the others but wasn't Worrall's PL average helped by the number of matches he rode at reserve.

 

In any case, it should have been their 2014 EDR average that was used. Far more relevant than how they performed at PL level.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Aces51

[SCB]

Not sure about the others but wasn't Worrall's PL average helped by the number of matches he rode at reserve.

 

In any case, it should have been their 2014 EDR average that was used. Far more relevant than how they performed at PL level.

Which is fine but that was comparable to Garrity and Newmans. So if you're kicking out Garrity, Newman and Kerr you have to do the same for Worrall.

[INCOGNITO]

Heard a weird one from a rider who has been a regular Elite League rider and doubled up but at present is only doing the Premier league.

 

He was told that if he stays out of the Elite League this year then he can start next season as a Fast Track reserve which apparently even he thought was crazy.

 

 

 

Could we get to see the likes of Lewis Bridger or Ben Barker as FOR ?

[Robbobee]

Richie Worrall ??