EC Rides Again Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Can someone explain the exclusion of Summers on 2 mins for not being ready? Then goes to 15m mark...ready to race...then told to go back to normal start position? I was baffled by that one as well. However, it didn't make any difference to the result as Scunthorpe got a 5-1 in that heat any way ! Only in speedway !! Surely it should have been r/r for sergeant and not a guest , what a farce !! Rob Godfrey was cheesed off about it. He had a moan from the centre green tonight. Although he congratulated Glasgow on the win he was obviously less than impressed by their "win at all costs" attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Can someone explain the exclusion of Summers on 2 mins for not being ready? Then goes to 15m mark...ready to race...then told to go back to normal start position?Me neither. Either he was ready to race, in which case why the exclusion light, or he wasn't and should have been on 15 metres. I thought the Berge exclusion was questionable too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Can someone explain the exclusion of Summers on 2 mins for not being ready? Then goes to 15m mark...ready to race...then told to go back to normal start position? I was just leaving the centre green entering the pits as this happened and from what i saw summers came back in to pits looking for a bike he was given one of covattis i think it was and went to start line just in time. Then Lawson decided his bike was better for him so chased him to the startline. I presume the ref excluded him as there were 2 bikes there but if he was not trying to swap over to the lawson bike then officially he was ready. I have some good shots of the nasty ht 11 crash and it was very similar to how ryan got injured. the problem was if you get a fast rider in gate 1 (morris,douglas auty r.Worrall type) they go straight across bend 1 to the dirt line straight across anyone in gate 2-4. David had already took Nike wide so he tried to cut back to avoid the fence to find nick wiping across him. Nick did the same straight after to Alex but he just managed to slow up to cut back before being wipped out. Happens every time near the end of the meeting when they chase the dirt from the start. Thought it was a fairly good result considering our ex number 1 being number 4 in thier averages and think if we had been at full strength could have won 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Can someone explain the exclusion of Summers on 2 mins for not being ready? Then goes to 15m mark...ready to race...then told to go back to normal start position? I can.... but I don't necessarily agree with the outcome! Basically riders under 2 mins, Summers no1 bike failed at the start, he quickly abandoned that and jumped on no2... and got to the tapes with roughly 10 seconds spare. He was now under power, lined up with the other three riders and READY to race... fair enough. However, with approximately 5 seconds left on the clock, Richard Lawson decides to charge from the pits on a 'spare' bike, then ride to the tapes when the race is all but under starters orders. At this point Summers was ready to race and unaware of Lawsons actions. Two minutes up, Ref had no option to put red lights on and halt proceedings. At this point...Ask yourself a question...Who was to blame for the delayed start? Was it Summers who was at the tapes READY to race...or... was it Lawson who rode round the track to the tapes with a spare bike when there was no reason to do so.... ? Refs decision was, it wasn't Summers fault, he was sat at the tapes, powered up and ready to race...his teammate caused the delay. Therefore Summers was allowed back in the race. Lawson got away scot free... it bought Glasgow a fresh two minutes, enough time to get Summers bike sorted? End of the day, speedway is a team sport... Lawsons action delaying the start gave Glasgow an advantage..where they clearly should've been penalised under the two minute rule. Something wrong there. Summers, to his credit did return to the track for the rerun, positioned himself on a 15m handicap and was prepared to race...until it was pointed out to him that he'd not actually been penalised. So who was in the wrong?... Why did Lawson enter the arena when the race was ready to run? Was he legal to do so? At the point Lawson entered the track at no point was Summers asking for assistance, he was unaware of what was going on behind him and was ready to race. Has a precedence been set here? End of the day... the rerun resulted in a 5-1 to Scunny, so no advantage was actually gained....but it could quite easily had done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Well done to the boys, just makes Sunday's result more annoying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric i Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Maybe Lawson should have received a fine for delaying proceedings. The Berge exclusion was wrong, that should have been Wilko or all 4 back, not a good night for the ref. Sounds like Glasgow broke a gentlemen's agreement using a guest for Sarjeant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Seen better meetings, lots of incidents but lacking in any top drawer racing. Few decent heats. Enjoyable without being top notch would best describe this meeting. Scunny without our big hitters of Auty and Douglas were always gonna be the underdogs in this encounter and that proved to be the case. Can't fault the effort of guest Jakobsen, his score doesn't reflect the shift he put in. Inconsistancy from all the Scunny boys was the real story. The strength of the impressive Lawson, together with Morris and the dubious guest inclusion of Covatti sealed a hollow victory for Glasgow. Well done to them, they did what they came to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Fair enough. TBH, it doesn't make a huge difference. would r/r scored as many as covatti? i doubt it as someone said to me ,david howe and the reserves would be allowed as r/r..feel sorry for NIke, he looked really fast getting 2 race wins to start off, joked about him getting 18 points, guess i put the mockers on him..... he did a wheelie to celebrate his 2nd win and fell off the back, totalling his bike and i think his 2nd one too, it went hurdling the fences in heat 11.it was an entertaining but in incidents... like the first poster stated....also who is to blame for the quest? glasgow for using him or the bspa for allowing? rob said his wasnt happy with the win at all cost glasgow, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I was baffled by that one as well. However, it didn't make any difference to the result as Scunthorpe got a 5-1 in that heat any way ! Rob Godfrey was cheesed off about it. He had a moan from the centre green tonight. Although he congratulated Glasgow on the win he was obviously less than impressed by their "win at all costs" attitude. To be fair its hardly Glasgow`s win at all costs is it, they would've asked the question of the BSPA as to what they would be entitled to get to cover for the injured Sargeant, they were granted a guest probably as he would've been riding for his EL club. The fact he was then injured obviously didn't make any difference to last nights meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazc Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Seen better meetings, lots of incidents but lacking in any top drawer racing. Few decent heats. Enjoyable without being top notch would best describe this meeting. Scunny without our big hitters of Auty and Douglas were always gonna be the underdogs in this encounter and that proved to be the case. Can't fault the effort of guest Jakobsen, his score doesn't reflect the shift he put in. Inconsistancy from all the Scunny boys was the real story. The strength of the impressive Lawson, together with Morris and the dubious guest inclusion of Covatti sealed a hollow victory for Glasgow. Well done to them, they did what they came to do. Dubious in what way we were entitled to a guest facility simple as Sergeant was due to ride for Coventry last night and the guest was named before his injury as you have to 3 day's prior you should be looking at your own team for not performing better rather than blame Glasgow for something that they were entitled to, Hardly a hollow victory we loved it should sit down and read your last sentence it really does smack off bitterness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Not sure why there's so much confusion about the guest last night. Sarjeant wasn't missing through injury for Glasgow last night, he was missing due to EL priorities (he was missing for Coventry through injury as that is where he would have been) If a gentlemen's agreement had been made between the two promoters then yes it is morally wrong but not illegal with regards to the rule books. Edited June 20, 2015 by mdmc82 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Dubious in what way we were entitled to a guest facility simple as Sergeant was due to ride for Coventry last night and the guest was named before his injury as you have to 3 day's prior you should be looking at your own team for not performing better rather than blame Glasgow for something that they were entitled to, Hardly a hollow victory we loved it should sit down and read your last sentence it really does smack off bitterness. Nah...no bitterness from me, I didn't expect to win, I stand by my comments. It does however grind a little that the Glasgow promotion illegibly backstabbed Rob regarding a gentlemans agreement over David Howe. If as Rob suggested, he agreed to release David and let you use him against us as long as you didn't also use a guest... In hindsight, Rob should've just held the deal back a week, wouldn't of been fair on David Howe....but then again, life ain't fair. Glasgow as a team, deserved there victory, on the night Scunny didn't have the riders with any consistency to challenge Lawson, Morris and the match defining Covatti. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucifer sam Posted June 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Dubious in what way we were entitled to a guest facility simple as Sergeant was due to ride for Coventry last night and the guest was named before his injury as you have to 3 day's prior you should be looking at your own team for not performing better rather than blame Glasgow for something that they were entitled to, Hardly a hollow victory we loved it should sit down and read your last sentence it really does smack off bitterness. Gaz, did you hear what Rob Godfrey said last night? Fair play to Glasgow for winning on the night. But to use a guest when Rob G requested rider replacement, after he allowed you to track David Howe last night, is poor form. As well as written rules, there are unwritten ones. A gentleman's agreement should be just that. Instead the Tigers management have shown themselves to be win-at-all-costs. As you know I'm often sympathetic to Glasgow, but not in this case. All the best Rob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagy1 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) A fairly decent win last night for the Tigs! Being the greedy guy I am we should of had all 4 points though! There was an "accident blackspot" where turn 1 meets turn 2! It caught many a rider out and caused a couple of very nasty crashes, thankfully most people walked away from. Just a note to the home fans, we were cheering the boys getting a 1-5 not the rider that had fell off!!!!! I was very impressed with the track & facilities, would also like to thank the promotion for organising the cold weather to make us feel at home. Richard Lawson looked great and I was impressed with Theo, looked really quick. Some of the referee's decisions were baffling. How he excluded Dmitri when he had gated, was leading as he was about to exit turn 2 and a Scorpions rider took him out(unintentionally is beyond me. Finally on to the centre green rant from the promoter. He said he gave Glasgow permission to speak to David Howe not expecting David to agree to to ride for Glasgow. Then when Glasgow arranged a deal he asked us not to use a guest for James Sargeant. The Glasgow representative said "i'll see what the boss says". The boss obviously wanted to field the strongest team possible so we got a guest which was within the rules. There was no "gentlemans agreement" from what I heard. So when does giving permission to speak to a rider let you make decisions on the rest of the opposing team? Really didn't see what his point was. It is great that he wanted to inform the fans of the happenings but it came across as a bitter man whining! Edited June 20, 2015 by nagy1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebaron Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Rob said we were done over by Glasgee using Covatti as a guest for Sargeant and so it proved. Covatti's 10pt return as Tigers came out 47-42 was essentially the difference. That said Scorps did give it a right old go especially Nike Lunna in his opening rides. Two wins and having a blast on the outside line. But he came off big style in Heat11 in an alarming turn2 spill!. Bikes n bits all over the place as Nike went for the gap in the pack into turn2 lap1 that suddenly shut on him! Bike spectacularly shears off over the fence. My concern was for Nick Morris who was hit from behind. But some how both riders walked away!. Nikes a great talent; thats clear but hes gotta weigh up things a bit before making that move. Cannot fault any of the Scorps all chipped in and made it hard for the would be Champions. Jacobsen could not repeat his last EWR form that got him the booking alas. So thats where we lacked a bit in response to Tigers for whom Lawson was imperious on an unbeaten 15pt max. David Howe was clearly feeling his way back into it and it was a odd situation to make his return. But theres no rancour from the Scorps support and he goes to Tigers with thanks and best wishes. Rob made that very clear; his beef was with the guest for Sargeant that reneged the agreement he had with Tigers. There was a daft incident in Heat12 all 4 at tapes Summers bike plays up. He pulls away drops bike centre green and runs back to pits for second bike ON 2 MINS!. Count down on with 30secs left on his way back to tapes appears to make it; but Lawson brings another bike up to the tapes for Summers? Exclusion siren on! Summers exc two mins; bit of delay Summers now off 15metres. Well no on comes Scorps club man Rick Hollingsworth to tell Summers he was never excluded! So all 4 back to tapes ???.Ref clearly excluded Summers but then said the siren was to end the two mins and send Lawson (who brought out the third bike for Summers) from the track. Keep up because I'm lost ! Anyway Wilko and Willy slammed in a 5-1 to cut the defecit to one point 35-36 with three heats to go. Thing now is no racing until 10 July! at Scunny which cannot be ideal if you want to retain interest amongst the floating support. Crowd was up slightly last night for me; and a bit of atmosphere and support getting behind the team. Fact; we cant have Josh and Ryan out and not miss them. But you got to give credit to the rest of them for battling through this injury crisis. Once Josh and Ryan are back we will be a different proposition make no mistake about that!. On to Worky and keep the faith. Edited June 20, 2015 by the outsider 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Johnson Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 i didnt think rob said that david wouldnt go to glasgow.... he said "he didnt expect david to ride again this year", then he heard that he wanted to go to glasgow and it was ironic that it was scunny on friday, so he gave permission for dave to go on loan as he had to problem with david wanting to ride again but asked (i quess the manager) that if i lend you him please dont use a quest for sarjeant," so for rob to ok davids move glasgow must of done a gentlemans agreement which they have backed out of? hence the "win at all costs" i also think that sarjeant was missing because he was doubling up, he wasnt missing got he got injured as he would of been missing any way, with the summers incident at the tapes... seemed to me that he did delay the start because his bike stopped, he was the primary cause of the stoppage ,if his bike hadnt packed up then everthings hunky dory, the ref put the red lights on to halt the start? , maybe to stop all the riders revving up etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nagy1 Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 No agreement was made!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 How ironic Scunny moaning about an "illegal guest " when on at least 1 occasion they have used an illegal guest for a rider away longtracking. !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
June Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 The rule was dubious because if the r/r rule states that it is intended for an injured rider, that should be it. doesn't matter when or how the injury occurred end of! guest cancelled. In the same way I believe the rule for No 1 is the allowance of a guest that we used. Us using r/r of Ryan one would have cancelled the other. Not Glasgow's fault but that of BSP rule. Would Glasgow had beaten Scunny doing r/r I doubt it. Your guest turned out to be your 2nd best rider on the night. He got 3 wins from 4 races. 10 + 1 A very good showing, impressive rider! Not the best meeting. Missed you Josh you'd have been in your element on that outside line. Sure we would have won it with you! Hurry up to get back SCORPIONS need you! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Stewart Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Fair play to Glasgow for winning on the night. But to use a guest when Rob G requested rider replacement, after he allowed you to track David Howe last night, is poor form. As well as written rules, there are unwritten ones. A gentleman's agreement should be just that. Instead the Tigers management have shown themselves to be win-at-all-costs. As you know I'm often sympathetic to Glasgow, but not in this case. All the best Rob You are learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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