E I Addio Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I get the feeling you have a problem with Lambert I have a problem with people who criticise the BSPA for inconsistency then want the same inconsistency themselves. Half the problem with the sport is inconsistent application of the rules. The precedent was set a few years ago (from memory I think 2010) when. Lee Richradson missed qualifying in exactly the same circumstances as Lambert i.e. crashed in the Semi. Rico , a former GP rider, heatleader on an 8 point average was not given a wild card. Fair enough, no arguments about that if the policy is we don't give wildcards to riders who crash out in the qualifiers. Having set the policy they would have to turn that on its head to now include Lambert. If they did include Lambert what happens when someone else crashes out in a qualifier? What is the criteria for deciding who gets a wild card and who doesn't ? If Lambert is to have a wildcard then you have to say that at least Bomber, Tai and Scott should get them if they crashed in the semis, so that also overturns the precedent they set with Rico. Then if you say Bomber should have a wildcard if he doesn't qualify what about Danny King or Craig Cook. The decision has to to be objective and not subjective. In other words you have to take Lambert out of the equation and say what is the the criteria we apply for giving wildcards. You can't give wild cards on the basis that we like this one but we don't like that one. The problem of course is thst not only are wildcards a nonsense in the first place, the BSPA have never really thought the criteria for using them. All we can say is that by not giving Lambert one at least they are being consistent with the decision not to give Rico one. People may not agree but at least there is consistency. The question nobody seems to want to answer is if you are going to wildcards to non qualifiers what objective criteria should be applied across the board. The other thing is once you start giving wildcards to non-qualifiers you start to make the idea of a competitive qualification process a bit pointless. Why not seed them straight through? As I said, it's tough on Lambert this year but will do him good in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted June 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 The precedent was set a few years ago (from memory I think 2010) when. Lee Richradson missed qualifying in exactly the same circumstances as Lambert i.e. crashed in the Semi. Rico , a former GP rider, heatleader on an 8 point average was not given a wild card. Fair enough, no arguments about that if the policy is we don't give wildcards to riders who crash out in the qualifiers. Because they didn't have wildcards in 2010. But after Lee missed out that year and Tai in 2011 they realised they needed to make sure the top guys didn't miss out again so brought in the wildcards. Yet for some reason don't actually use them. That fine if you don't want to use them but then don't have rules for it! After yesterday, how many bums on seats do you think Robert Lambert would add to the meeting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I have a problem with people who criticise the BSPA for inconsistency then want the same inconsistency themselves. Half the problem with the sport is inconsistent application of the rules. The precedent was set a few years ago (from memory I think 2010) when. Lee Richradson missed qualifying in exactly the same circumstances as Lambert i.e. crashed in the Semi. Rico , a former GP rider, heatleader on an 8 point average was not given a wild card. Fair enough, no arguments about that if the policy is we don't give wildcards to riders who crash out in the qualifiers. Having set the policy they would have to turn that on its head to now include Lambert. If they did include Lambert what happens when someone else crashes out in a qualifier? What is the criteria for deciding who gets a wild card and who doesn't ? If Lambert is to have a wildcard then you have to say that at least Bomber, Tai and Scott should get them if they crashed in the semis, so that also overturns the precedent they set with Rico. Then if you say Bomber should have a wildcard if he doesn't qualify what about Danny King or Craig Cook. The decision has to to be objective and not subjective. In other words you have to take Lambert out of the equation and say what is the the criteria we apply for giving wildcards. You can't give wild cards on the basis that we like this one but we don't like that one. The problem of course is thst not only are wildcards a nonsense in the first place, the BSPA have never really thought the criteria for using them. All we can say is that by not giving Lambert one at least they are being consistent with the decision not to give Rico one. People may not agree but at least there is consistency. The question nobody seems to want to answer is if you are going to wildcards to non qualifiers what objective criteria should be applied across the board. The other thing is once you start giving wildcards to non-qualifiers you start to make the idea of a competitive qualification process a bit pointless. Why not seed them straight through? As I said, it's tough on Lambert this year but will do him good in the long run. Firstly, there wasn't a wild card available in 2010, so the Lee Richardson situation is irrelevant and hence the majority of your post. The purpose of a wildcard is to use on the best rider who for whatever reason didn't make the Final. Lambert is that rider. If Woffinden AND Lambert had crashed out, Woffinden would be that rider. Your points about Harris, Cook, Nicholls etc, also irrelevant.. they qualified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I have a problem with people who criticise the BSPA for inconsistency then want the same inconsistency themselves. Half the problem with the sport is inconsistent application of the rules. The precedent was set a few years ago (from memory I think 2010) when. Lee Richradson missed qualifying in exactly the same circumstances as Lambert i.e. crashed in the Semi. Rico , a former GP rider, heatleader on an 8 point average was not given a wild card. Fair enough, no arguments about that if the policy is we don't give wildcards to riders who crash out in the qualifiers. Having set the policy they would have to turn that on its head to now include Lambert. If they did include Lambert what happens when someone else crashes out in a qualifier? What is the criteria for deciding who gets a wild card and who doesn't ? If Lambert is to have a wildcard then you have to say that at least Bomber, Tai and Scott should get them if they crashed in the semis, so that also overturns the precedent they set with Rico. Then if you say Bomber should have a wildcard if he doesn't qualify what about Danny King or Craig Cook. The decision has to to be objective and not subjective. In other words you have to take Lambert out of the equation and say what is the the criteria we apply for giving wildcards. You can't give wild cards on the basis that we like this one but we don't like that one. The problem of course is thst not only are wildcards a nonsense in the first place, the BSPA have never really thought the criteria for using them. All we can say is that by not giving Lambert one at least they are being consistent with the decision not to give Rico one. People may not agree but at least there is consistency. The question nobody seems to want to answer is if you are going to wildcards to non qualifiers what objective criteria should be applied across the board. The other thing is once you start giving wildcards to non-qualifiers you start to make the idea of a competitive qualification process a bit pointless. Why not seed them straight through? As I said, it's tough on Lambert this year but will do him good in the long run. Which is what I have been saying for ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Which is what I have been saying for ages. You have advocated a return to a system rife with seedings. World finals were known to have nearly one third of seeded riders in them. I have a problem with people who criticise the BSPA for inconsistency then want the same inconsistency themselves. Half the problem with the sport is inconsistent application of the rules. The precedent was set a few years ago (from memory I think 2010) when. Lee Richradson missed qualifying in exactly the same circumstances as Lambert i.e. crashed in the Semi. Rico , a former GP rider, heatleader on an 8 point average was not given a wild card. Fair enough, no arguments about that if the policy is we don't give wildcards to riders who crash out in the qualifiers. Having set the policy they would have to turn that on its head to now include Lambert. If they did include Lambert what happens when someone else crashes out in a qualifier? What is the criteria for deciding who gets a wild card and who doesn't ? If Lambert is to have a wildcard then you have to say that at least Bomber, Tai and Scott should get them if they crashed in the semis, so that also overturns the precedent they set with Rico. Then if you say Bomber should have a wildcard if he doesn't qualify what about Danny King or Craig Cook. The decision has to to be objective and not subjective. In other words you have to take Lambert out of the equation and say what is the the criteria we apply for giving wildcards. You can't give wild cards on the basis that we like this one but we don't like that one. The problem of course is thst not only are wildcards a nonsense in the first place, the BSPA have never really thought the criteria for using them. All we can say is that by not giving Lambert one at least they are being consistent with the decision not to give Rico one. People may not agree but at least there is consistency. The question nobody seems to want to answer is if you are going to wildcards to non qualifiers what objective criteria should be applied across the board. The other thing is once you start giving wildcards to non-qualifiers you start to make the idea of a competitive qualification process a bit pointless. Why not seed them straight through? As I said, it's tough on Lambert this year but will do him good in the long run. Wildcards don't have, or need "criteria". The very idea is for the organizers to pick a rider they want in the line up for whatever reason. It doesn't matter a jot who was picked the year before, or why he was picked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E I Addio Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Because they didn't have wildcards in 2010. But after Lee missed out that year and Tai in 2011 they realised they needed to make sure the top guys didn't miss out again so brought in the wildcards. Yet for some reason don't actually use them. That fine if you don't want to use them but then don't have rules for it! After yesterday, how many bums on seats do you think Robert Lambert would add to the meeting? Ok, then the last sentence of your first paragraph sums the situation up and what we say is speculation without knowing how the BSPA approach it unless it going to vary from year to year and rider to rider like pretty much everything else that goes on in the sport and the fans complain about. If it's going to be judged entirely on the principle of bums on seats fair enough Lambert goes in although the decision was made weeks ago not after Monday. Personally I still don't think that's the ideal way of doing it because it still raises the question of why go through a qualifier if a rider is going to be put in anyway. Also if the bums on seats principle is the ruling principle then Darcy should get a GP wildcard for 2016 on the grounds of being "box office" but plenty of posters of the DW thread say he shouldn't get one so whichever way you go some will not be happy , that's why the test has to be objective not subjective ( in my opinion). Bottom line is the wildcard idea, like most other things that come out of the BSPA was someting plucked out the air without being thought through. Edited June 12, 2015 by E I Addio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I think the only rider who went into the qualifiers knowing that come what may he'd be in the final was Woffinden...if he'd have crashed out then he'd have got a wildcard above everybody else.....Harris would probably have been next in line and there would then be a pecking order that people can argue over the order.... So the argument about if Lambert got a wildcard then Woffinden , Harris etc would have had to have one had they missed out is senseless.....they would have got one and would have got one over Lambert at this moment.... There is no rule that states a rider crashing is not eligible for a wildcard...the wildcard is there for that reason really....it was always quite unlikely that a genuine rostrum contender in the final was going to be eliminated in the semi final without crashing....so the wildcard covered that option ....whether you agree with wildcards is totally irrelevant here..Lambert was the best rider who didn't qualify by right and therefore should have got the slot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 I don't know if Robert is to late to get a place in this years final, if not he deserves it he is probably the second highest ranked Brit under Tai. there are a lot of young lads in there and a lot of old stagers who have been around British speedway since time immoria, I personal think that after a couple of years time we will see Bomber going down the team places as he just starting to get a little long in the tooth now, and he dosen't seem to have that little bit extra when it comes to racing abroad against the worlds best, I think his glory days are over. He is now to old to make a revival, Cook never even made the big time and don't think he will, so it is now up to the young bloods coming through the ranks all be it at too far a slow pace with them being held back again this year at reserve. They have got to give these young lads all the help they can, because they are the future of British speedway, so why keep messing around using riders that have been in the GB team for far to many years and have still year after year failed to come good, when up against the worlds best. Time to look to the future, not the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickthemuppet Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Lambert is a talent, no doubt about that, which makes the decision not to seed him through to this years British Final all the more crazy. Must be Peterborough favourite rider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon Hammer Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Reckon wild cards are there for previous final winners, who were unable to take part in the semis due to injury - seems fair enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Must be Peterborough favourite rider After tonight's no show at the EoES young Lambert might not be a Peterborough favourite for to much longer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattK Posted June 12, 2015 Report Share Posted June 12, 2015 Doing a Woofy tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILIPRISING Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 After tonight's no show at the EoES young Lambert might not be a Peterborough favourite for to much longer. GIVE the kid a break. Think you might find it was more his parents' decision that he couldn't get back but they will lean as will Robert. GIVE the kid a break. Think you might find it was more his parents' decision that he couldn't get back but they will learn as will Robert. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Countershaftcounter Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 I see the golden child has been dropped by the Panthers........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdmc82 Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Promising talent, terrible attitude. Never good when one rider thinks he's bigger than the team. Good on Peterborough. The question is with King's Lynn rumoured to also being having conflicts with him, will they risk doing the same. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Promising talent, terrible attitude. Never good when one rider thinks he's bigger than the team. Good on Peterborough. The question is with King's Lynn rumoured to also being having conflicts with him, will they risk doing the same. Certainly seems to have a chip on his shoulder regarding British Speedway IMO .Good luck to him I feel he will need it with his attitude. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) Like Woffy, another that has learnt his riding in Perth and lived a lot of his life there......wonder if he'll be called an Aussie by everybody ! hope so , probably not until he's had all he can take from our national league claiming to be British though, then shows his true colours and declares himself Australian , Like Nick Morris did , Edited August 19, 2015 by speedibee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillipsr Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Since when has looking out for your own carreer meant you have a terrible attitude? He doesnt owe British speedway a thing, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted August 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 The thing is, Lambert IS bigger than Peterborough speedway. Over the years we had first Gollob then Crump, Pedersen etc followed him out the exit door. Holta never turned up in the first place. Since then all manner of mediocre riders have shunned British speedway and they're doing just fine for themselves while British speedway lurches from crisis to crisis. Lambert will still be here in 20 years time, does anyone want to place a bet that their speedway team is?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedibee Posted August 19, 2015 Report Share Posted August 19, 2015 Since when has looking out for your own carreer meant you have a terrible attitude? He doesnt owe British speedway a thing, Tahts right Phillip . he doesn't owe us a thing .nor do we owe him anything , so no need to put up with his arrogance is there 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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