customhouseregular Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 No Garbage isn't harsh at all.....The 1970's was full of truly high standards..England had at least 12 riders all of whom were a country mile better than anything (given that Master Woffinden is an aussie) we have today. The names of BETTS (racer)...Ashby (racer)...Pusey (racer)..Wilson (racer and hard)...Reggie wilson (same)...added to those above. They were great days, fans travelled miles to see meetings....the big hope..is the emerging National League with great racing, improving gates, regular teams, few mercenaries....scrap the farce that is the Elite League..merge the 2 other leagues and you then have a chance....if only !! I'm with you 100% on everything you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 No Garbage isn't harsh at all.....The 1970's was full of truly high standards..England had at least 12 riders all of whom were a country mile better than anything (given that Master Woffinden is an aussie) we have today. The names of BETTS (racer)...Ashby (racer)...Pusey (racer)..Wilson (racer and hard)...Reggie wilson (same)...added to those above. They were great days, fans travelled miles to see meetings....the big hope..is the emerging National League with great racing, improving gates, regular teams, few mercenaries....scrap the farce that is the Elite League..merge the 2 other leagues and you then have a chance....if only !! Michael Lee Dave Jessup Malcolm Simmons Gordon Kennett Steve Bastable Chris Morton Tony Davey John Davis Les Collins Peter Collins Reg Wilson Doug Wyer Alan Grahame Jim McMillan John Louis Dave Morton The 1978 British final line-up. Slightly better than this year! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I would say any of those riders could have won it on their night 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) Michael Lee Dave Jessup Malcolm Simmons Gordon Kennett Steve Bastable Chris Morton Tony Davey John Davis Les Collins Peter Collins Reg Wilson Doug Wyer Alan Grahame Jim McMillan John Louis Dave Morton The 1978 British final line-up. Slightly better than this year! You can say that again. :approve: Edited June 6, 2015 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 No Garbage isn't harsh at all.....The 1970's was full of truly high standards..England had at least 12 riders all of whom were a country mile better than anything (given that Master Woffinden is an aussie) we have today. The names of BETTS (racer)...Ashby (racer)...Pusey (racer)..Wilson (racer and hard)...Reggie wilson (same)...added to those above. They were great days, fans travelled miles to see meetings....the big hope..is the emerging National League with great racing, improving gates, regular teams, few mercenaries....scrap the farce that is the Elite League..merge the 2 other leagues and you then have a chance....if only !! As predicted.. the thread begins to descend into the rose tinted, every rider was great thread in the 70's. Shame as there has been some very interesting reading prior. Your post is redundant the moment you declare Woffinden an Aussie. He isn't, so grow up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw42 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 No Garbage isn't harsh at all.....The 1970's was full of truly high standards..England had at least 12 riders all of whom were a country mile better than anything (given that Master Woffinden is an aussie) we have today. The names of BETTS (racer)...Ashby (racer)...Pusey (racer)..Wilson (racer and hard)...Reggie wilson (same)...added to those above. They were great days, fans travelled miles to see meetings....the big hope..is the emerging National League with great racing, improving gates, regular teams, few mercenaries....scrap the farce that is the Elite League..merge the 2 other leagues and you then have a chance....if only !! Ok well I thought garbage was harsh because it's all down to opinions and he/she is entitled to theirs, anyway you're right the 70's was an era blessed with many good riders but to mention Chris Pusey or Reg Wilson alongside the likes of Woffinden is quite a leap, although Reg spent most of his career @ Owlerton I would class both these riders as journeymen types. Martin Ashby was a good rider but he never progressed from good, pretty much the same goes for Terry Betts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwatcher Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 2 different era's 2 different riders, I would say that His dad pipped him to the post but not by much. It was far harder riding the tracks in his dads days, far greater skills on the bike where needed and the track surfaces, far different conditions from when his son rode. I for one would love to see them stick all the top riders of the modern era, on an old upright bike with tracks prepared to how they where in that era, to see just how they would get on. Some of them would be having quite a hard time of it, because there is no way on this earth, that they could go out on an old upright, giving it full throttle from the gate and hopeing to stay on the bike. The riders had to do far more thinking then they ever do now. No doubt some will differ. with my thoughts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Ok well I thought garbage was harsh because it's all down to opinions and he/she is entitled to theirs, anyway you're right the 70's was an era blessed with many good riders but to mention Chris Pusey or Reg Wilson alongside the likes of Woffinden is quite a leap, although Reg spent most of his career @ Owlerton I would class both these riders as journeymen types. Martin Ashby was a good rider but he never progressed from good, pretty much the same goes for Terry Betts. A well reasoned comment. The league in the 70's was stronger in comparison to the current Elite League... when compared to its era. However, it wasn't as tough as the Polish League is now. The format made riders such as Pusey, Wilson etc look much better than they were.. another format they'd be 7pt journeyman at best and looked on completely differently. That's not a knock on the riders, just the reality of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 A well reasoned comment. The league in the 70's was stronger in comparison to the current Elite League... when compared to its era. However, it wasn't as tough as the Polish League is now. The format made riders such as Pusey, Wilson etc look much better than they were.. another format they'd be 7pt journeyman at best and looked on completely differently. That's not a knock on the riders, just the reality of the situation. Point is that Pusey and Wilson would be way better than all but a couple of Riders in the British Final nowadays. Take out Woffinden, Harris and possibly Nicholls and I would back Pusey or Wilson against any of the rest. If they had a good night, which all Riders do - either of them could win it these days. Difficult to compare eras though - I only know that the British Riders I watched in the 60's and 70's seem, to me, to be far superior than anything we have today apart from probably Woffinden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWitcher Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Point is that Pusey and Wilson would be way better than all but a couple of Riders in the British Final nowadays. Take out Woffinden, Harris and possibly Nicholls and I would back Pusey or Wilson against any of the rest. If they had a good night, which all Riders do - either of them could win it these days. Difficult to compare eras though - I only know that the British Riders I watched in the 60's and 70's seem, to me, to be far superior than anything we have today apart from probably Woffinden. Wilson and Pusey were no better than the likes of Danny King, Craig Cook, Ben Barker are now. Put riders such as King in the format of the 70's they'd be averaging around 7.5 to 9 and be held up on a pedestal. There were more top level Brits then for sure.. but they were a cut above the likes of Wilson and Pusey... just as Woffinden, Nicholls in his prime etc are a cut above King, Cook etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) Wilson and Pusey were no better than the likes of Danny King, Craig Cook, Ben Barker are now. Put riders such as King in the format of the 70's they'd be averaging around 7.5 to 9 and be held up on a pedestal. There were more top level Brits then for sure.. but they were a cut above the likes of Wilson and Pusey... just as Woffinden, Nicholls in his prime etc are a cut above King, Cook etc. I reckon that both Pusey and Wilson would be as good as King and better than both Cook and Barker. There were so many more that were way better though. EDIT: A good name for a Pub that. 'The Cook and Barker'. Edited June 6, 2015 by The White Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I think it's very rose tinted glasses if people are looking back on Chris Pusey and Reg Wilson and putting them on a pedestal.....they were decent riders racing in a much easier format , plus being in the nice position of being able to take the most favoured gate position in every race if they wished..... The fact is that you cannot realistically compare the 70's with today....I personally miles preferred the 70's and I think only a fool would say the sport wasn't in a much healthier position back then ....and there were definitely miles more top quality English riders about than today........but it's too easy to say that all riders were better back then than today....sure the sport was more high profile but the race formats, the non fixed gate positions, the more evenly spread of talent over more teams all go together to make it easier for a top rider back then to get those higher averages...but like I've said before it doesn't necessarily mean the top riders back then were better than the top riders today.....it's impossible to compare....but I do know that the GP line ups of today are stronger than a lot of the old world finals from back then in my opinion....the world final was never the best 16 in the world which was always wrong. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I would say the only year the best 16 riders were in the world championship was 1996. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCB Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 I would say the only year the best 16 riders were in the world championship was 1996. Jimmy Nilsson wasnt in the GPs that season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiegal Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 As predicted.. the thread begins to descend into the rose tinted, every rider was great thread in the 70's. Shame as there has been some very interesting reading prior. Your post is redundant the moment you declare Woffinden an Aussie. He isn't, so grow up. Master Woffinden is a smart kid....he refers to Perth as "my home"....he hangs about with all teh Aussie boys...no crime in that..they are good company...he viewed the Aussie Team..Holder..Crump (in early years)....Ward..Batchelor.....I suggest he thought..now where can I be an undisputed "Top Dog"....so lets set up camp as Englands No.1.....clever ..shrewd...and good thinking...so who's the MUG ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Strangely I think they decide your nationality based on things like relatives and country of birth rather than who your mates are!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiegal Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Strangely I think they decide your nationality based on things like relatives and country of birth rather than who your mates are!! And Jason Crump was born in Bristol !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Duppcomic Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 And if a sheep is born in a Stable, does that make it a horse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldace Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Master Woffinden is a smart kid....he refers to Perth as "my home"....he hangs about with all teh Aussie boys...no crime in that..they are good company...he viewed the Aussie Team..Holder..Crump (in early years)....Ward..Batchelor.....I suggest he thought..now where can I be an undisputed "Top Dog"....so lets set up camp as Englands No.1.....clever ..shrewd...and good thinking...so who's the MUG ?? I need to reconsider where I come from based on this new criteria. I too refer to home as the area I currently live, I even have friends in this area. Does this mean I am now not from where I thought I was from. It is worse for Bwitcher. He lives in Portugal, probably even has the odd Portugese friend and yet tries to pass himself off as British 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 I think it's harsh on Woffinden....he was born in England to English parents....yes he grew up in Perth but still made regular trips back to the UK as well.....of course he will "feel" Australian to a large degree as that's his upbringing...but he was still born in Britain to British parents...his dad's background was British speedway..he certainly can't be accused of using Britain as a flag of convenience....he is British !.......and as for being mates with the Aussies, so what....none of those Aussies are from Perth, they all live 3000 miles away on the other side of the country so they just became mates in England basically....maybe they were/are just better company which is how anybody chooses their mates and I'm sure he's got English mates too !......you can't judge a nationality by who they hang out with regularly ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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