pandorum Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I would say Chris. John relied almost solely on his gating, Chris was a more complete racer. I saw Tiger Louis pass loads of times so he did not gate much when I saw him. Both excellent riders. Dad just has the edge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I saw Tiger Louis pass loads of times so he did not gate much when I saw him. Both excellent riders. Dad just has the edge. You might have, I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiegal Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 You might have, I didn't. Then obviously you never saw the race between JL and Bruce at the BLRC.....believe me I have been at Foxhall since 1955...and saw him in his majesty..throughout the 1970's....every single week home and away he passed riders....I note that your "team" is Halifax...says it all dear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
25yearfan Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 John Louis and Chris Louis were both terrific riders and great servants of Ipswich speedway, definitely in my all time greatest Witches team ever! I'd say that in the history of speedway no father and son racers were ever so evenly matched in terms of ability and success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple.H. Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Phil and Jason Crump.So very hard to compare different eras but 10 years on the trot in the top 3 of the World IMO makes Crump Jnr not only better than his father but probably one of the greatest ever ( I know I'm contradicting myself ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 So very hard to compare different eras but 10 years on the trot in the top 3 of the World IMO makes Crump Jnr not only better than his father but probably one of the greatest ever ( I know I'm contradicting myself ) No doubt Jason was far better than Phil.....Phil Crump was an excellent rider but Jason in my opinion is one of the best ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw42 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 John Louis and Chris Louis were both terrific riders and great servants of Ipswich speedway, definitely in my all time greatest Witches team ever! I'd say that in the history of speedway no father and son racers were ever so evenly matched in terms of ability and success! Ken & Neil Middleditch had fairly similar careers, admittedly not nearly as successful as the Louis clan though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foamfence Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Then obviously you never saw the race between JL and Bruce at the BLRC.....believe me I have been at Foxhall since 1955...and saw him in his majesty..throughout the 1970's....every single week home and away he passed riders....I note that your "team" is Halifax...says it all dear. At that time I was a frequent visitor to tracks all over the country. I didn't say he NEVER passed anyone, just that his son was the better racer. If you disagree, fair enough, no need for the clever remarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 If pushed in to choosing a Father/Son partnership - I would go for Phil/Jason Crump marginally ahead of John/Chris Louis. Just an opinion, because it is very difficult to choose in different eras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Phil was probably on a par with, or a little below the louis's (I'd tend towards the latter). Jason though is one of the top ten of all time IMHO, so as a partnership I'd definitely give the crumps the edge. Most closely matched brothers - the Grahames? Boococks? Morans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I couldn't split the Grahames. I would say that Alan was the better team man with his legendary partnership with Phil Collins, and the way he continued riding while fighting cancer was quite incredible. Andy was so fast and the only Wimbledon rider to get the better of Steve Schofield and Andy Galvin on a regular basis. To finish first and second in the British final was quite an achievement although they were below the Louis's 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 You know, it wasn't at the same level as those mentioned, but if I had to plump for an evenly matched father and son pairing, I think that Bob and Michael Coles would be contenders, as would Mike and Leigh Lanham. For evenly matched brothers, I feel Jack and Norman Parker would be right up there, as would David and Kevin Smart. Back to the original question, and I would have to go for John Louis, and although I hate to say it, Jason over Phil... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw42 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Phil was probably on a par with, or a little below the louis's (I'd tend towards the latter). Jason though is one of the top ten of all time IMHO, so as a partnership I'd definitely give the crumps the edge. Most closely matched brothers - the Grahames? Boococks? Morans? Closely matched I'd say the Morans, not many better sights than Kelly & Shawn team riding, great memories. I'd also say Alan had the edge over Andy Gahame, very tough rider. Chris & Dave Morton were quite similar in style but Chris takes the honours. It's great how these type of threads open up and start to evoke snatched memories of riders you thought you'd forgotten about. What about the Karlsson/Max brothers, both had great careers and still going, I always used to prefer watching Michael for excitement but Peter has my full admiration for the way he has kept himself fit and competitive, great servant to British speedway and one of those riders you would always want in your team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruiser McHuge Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I was a big fan of both Grahame's......I would say Andy was the better gater but Alan was the better all round rider..he was very forceful at times was Alan !...a very tough rider which gives him the edge over Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Chris & Dave Morton were quite similar in style but Chris takes the honours. I often wonder how good Dave could've been if he hadn't broken his leg in '77. There was nothing between him and Chris at that point, although he was a few years older. He was never the same rider after that. It's strange how some riders can return from serious injury and be just as good as before. Ermolenko, Knudsen, Wiltshire, and other riders can't. Must be a psychological thing I guess.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I would say Chris. John relied almost solely on his gating, Chris was a more complete racer. That has to be the biggest load of garbage i have ever seen on here. Having watched both riders on a regular basis, i can say that John was the better rider and racer.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityrebel Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 I was a big fan of both Grahame's......I would say Andy was the better gater but Alan was the better all round rider..he was very forceful at times was Alan !...a very tough rider which gives him the edge over AndyI remember many moons ago watching alan guest for Wimbledon at perry Barr. He was very hard on andy, who was riding for the brummies at the time. No brotherly love on that occasion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nw42 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 That has to be the biggest load of garbage i have ever seen on here. Having watched both riders on a regular basis, i can say that John was the better rider and racer.. Garbage is a bit harsh but I have to agree that John was never one I'd class as a consistent gater, of that top British group back in the early mid 70's I would say Simmo, Jessup and Davies were the gaters, Louis, PC, Mort etc were the racers. I saw him ride many times but I honestly can't remember if Ray Wilson could trap well on a regular basis, anyone? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluPanther Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Garbage is a bit harsh but I have to agree that John was never one I'd class as a consistent gater, of that top British group back in the early mid 70's I would say Simmo, Jessup and Davies were the gaters, Louis, PC, Mort etc were the racers. I saw him ride many times but I honestly can't remember if Ray Wilson could trap well on a regular basis, anyone? Agree with that 100%...Britain had some top notch riders in those days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiegal Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 Garbage is a bit harsh but I have to agree that John was never one I'd class as a consistent gater, of that top British group back in the early mid 70's I would say Simmo, Jessup and Davies were the gaters, Louis, PC, Mort etc were the racers. I saw him ride many times but I honestly can't remember if Ray Wilson could trap well on a regular basis, anyone? No Garbage isn't harsh at all.....The 1970's was full of truly high standards..England had at least 12 riders all of whom were a country mile better than anything (given that Master Woffinden is an aussie) we have today. The names of BETTS (racer)...Ashby (racer)...Pusey (racer)..Wilson (racer and hard)...Reggie wilson (same)...added to those above. They were great days, fans travelled miles to see meetings....the big hope..is the emerging National League with great racing, improving gates, regular teams, few mercenaries....scrap the farce that is the Elite League..merge the 2 other leagues and you then have a chance....if only !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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